Bleh . . .
 

Ok, so I've read this dang forum, off and on, for two years now . . . guess it's time to say hello.

hello


Archer

Hello.

The Cellar: Wearing down lurkers since 1990.

Welcome!
 

So you were finally drawn in.

We're all aquiver to have you with us instead of just stringing along. ;)

Moan.

Please, archer, do not allow that unjustified use of punnage drive you away.

Welcome.

Hello there Archer ... I'm British, but don't let that get in the way :D


Chris.

'Bout time someone bowed up and told him right. [/texan]

Hello.

Any relation to the captain of the Enterprise?

I've been wondering. Throughout the various thoughtful and intelligent threads, I haven't seen much evidence of contributors
changeing their views. But, looking at the number of "views" vs the number of "posts" I wonder how many lurkers have been swayed by these discussions. I'm hoping some people that have been regular or semiregular readers, but haven't posted, will respond. PLEASE! It only seems perverted the first time.

Hey, readers are good too. It takes a totally different state of mind to write.

I hit that state of mind about once a month, it generally last for 3 - 4 days then I sit back and read and maybe contribute two or three times a week at the most. I think I had about 100 posts in my first 2 weeks here, then I quit posting nearly as much, considering I've been a steady reader here for the last 6 months it's been quite the drop in my posting.

Quite true. I'm not casting aspersions on anyone that prefers not to post. But, unfortunately they're the only ones that can answer my question. Hence, my groveling.:D

Ah! Fresh mea -- I mean greetings from Pugetropolis, Archer!

Lurking vs. posting
 

     Actually, I've seen it happen a few times. What I see much more often though is people here providing raw info or a viewpoint to people that haven't yet formed an opinion. This is almost always a good thing.
     It's true that some subjects nobody will budge on. The war is a good example of that. The sad part is that the majority by far were against the war, but many (myself included) decided to support the troops anyway. I stopped posting on those threads because of the overwhelming close-mindedness of everyone (myself included) involved. We had made up our minds and were sticking to our decisions. Still I read them because they often contained info I had missed on the news.
     On the other hand, there have been a few discussions that have lead to plenty of reevaluation of views around here. That's one of the reasons I love this place so much. A fair portion of the patronage will vary their opinions, just don't expect them to admit it outright. =]

On the subject of Lurkers.
 

     I thought this was interesting. I don't give lurkers any thought, whatsoever. I mean the whole reason I discuss things is to learn, and have my opinion challenged to see if it holds water. The Cellar is a good place for that since most of the members are quite clever, even if a few are clever and nuts. That's the basis for me not caring aobut lurkers. The only readers that intrest me are the ones that provide feedback. Any thoughts on this?
     Oh, and just so this isn't pure thread-jacking, hi Archer.

It's the people . . .
 

that make this site so interesting.

Watching you all come together when someone had a fire in their home. The *cough* interesting discussion about a helicopter, and people with words on their chests, making poetry. The "yelling" that goes on between two of you on one thread, but that hostility resides within the thread, and is not taken personally (most of the time). IOTD, that was the hook, then the valid and (mostly) intelligent discussion kept my interest. Well that and the semi-prolific discussion on firearms (Glock 23 on me atm) :)

The whole concept of reading (on a relatively long term basis) the discussion of others is somewhat voyeuristic. There have been several times that I've thought about posting, and didn't.

Bruce, as for your question; I've not been swayed per say, but rather gained insight into other opinions, or further depth of knowledge about my own opinion. As for regular contributors changing views, strong (at least virtually) personality types tend to not change their opinions, oftentimes in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence, and to contribue/hold your own on this board, you have to be have that strong personality. I'm sure you've seen the "kiddies" (my term) that bounce in, throw up a painfully weak-minded statement, try and defend it in a post or two, then dissappear.

/shrug

Yall just have good discussion.

Archer

I suspect there are many such as myself who interject only when they have unique thoughts which are complimentary to the conversation. I suppose that for me it's the distinction between contributing, and just posting. If I feel that my knowledge/opinions/insight on the matter at hand are of little or no value to the reader, I decline the opportunity to waste their time.

But that's just me.

Hello, Archer. Welcome. You aren't a digiridoo player by any chance, are you?

Yes, I do have a reason for asking. I peripherally know someone who goes by the handle Archer, and you never know if this might be the same person.

     I'm in general agreement with you hp, but if every post is purely informative then the thread becomes an awfully dry read. This isn't really a bad thing, but I like to laugh a little too. Also, you have the silent majority issue. Just because someone else has already stated an opinion similar to yours doesn't mean that person couldn't use a little backing. It also gives a better idea of who holds a given opinion and lets us know you better. Which in turn, allows us to give you better feedback.

Readers: there aren't a ton of them, except for the IotD blog view. It used to be that on places like Usenet, there would be 10 readers for every poster. Here the ratio is probably closer to 1:1.

Changing your mind: it's still important to talk out all the points. If you're intellectually honest, you want to hear as many opinions as you can, especially the ones you don't agree with. If you don't change your mind, then your opinion is stronger because it's been tested. Of course that depends on one being open to other opinions and open to criticism.

Lurkers are the great potential. I like to imagine there is quite a bit of interesting thought out there, lurking, reading, waiting, keeping it interesting.

What does it take to write? to jump in. Hmm, I agree takes a certain mindset to write and a sense of social comfort. I have deleted as many posts as Ive sent.
What made you leap? It could be a strong opinion, not yet expressed - poked into action, or a thread, casual enough to dare a wisecrack -Some comfort level reached. I would be in the wisecrack category.
Thread starting, that seems a next level, I'm certainly not comfortable there, maybe later.

Hey, Whit... if you hate my guts, then just come out and say it.

So, Archer is packing a Glock, I suppose that means (s)he is refering to some other activity that requires arching?

Elspode; nah not me.
 

As for the handle, it came about from an old (1998?) Apache flight sim. It stuck around from Tribes and T2 for my love for sniping with a chain gun/vulcan. Oh and I'm lucky to hit center of mass outside of 12 feet with that 23.

As for changing your mind. What I see is more a flaw in the psyche. When certain personality types (e.g. A, red), are presented with a preponderance of evidence contradictory to thier position, or even more particularly a flaw in logic, they are just as likely to ignore the other argument or attempt to refute it through other means (denigration, straw man). This can hold particularly true in a public forum (The Cellar, a public debate, a "bar" discussion). Instead of modifying or outright changing their opinion, a person digs in to what, from an outside observer's opinion, is a flawed posture. It becomes a pride thing, at least for me (thought I don't think I'm alone).

Is it really a flaw? I guess I see it as a flaw within myself, but the ability to "stick to ones guns" can be very sucessful in the right circumstances. Almost like a fight or flight type thing.

In any case, it can make for a good laugh at someone else expense :D

Archer

Thanks Archer, and everyone else also.
By the way, last year I was building Apaches. Well sorta, in reality I was building the pilot and copilot doors. Very cool design. Half the damn door was window (plastic not glass). If they wanted to get out in a hurry, the window was caulked with plastic explosive of some sort. Don't open the door, just blow the window out. Imagine whipping into the parking lot and just blowing the door off your car. Bwhahahahahaha.

Wtf?
 

     Umm ... What?
     Actually, I was trying to encourage you to post more ... Were you joking perhaps? Did I just not get the joke?

     UT: That was my point exactly. I want to have my opinions challenged. Otherwise why bother to express them? How would getting a bunch of people, mostly in Philly, to agree with me improve my life? Now, having someone show me where I've got an opinion based on false info or made without enough info can do me some good. I can then change for the better. If my opinion stands then I can feel a little more sure of it. I don't see the point of communicating unless you're willing to allow it to change you. You gain nothing that way.

It was an attempt at humor. But, a crappy day does not cater to effective humor, and I should not have tried. Besides, sarcasm is a tool, not a weapon!

Man, I've got the munchies.

Cool.
 

     We're good then. I was wondering, dude. I've pissed people off without trying for years, but I usually was aware of it when I did it. Also, it's no fun to piss people off if you can't see the look on their face.
     I would like to see you post more. I think the general belief around the Cellar is the more the merrier, unless you're a dumbass. You've got the right idea about posting, just loosen up a little.
     On an unrelated topic, am I the only one that has noticed the humor level around here has jumped up? I've been laughing my ass off all day...

I've changed my opinion a lot since I came to the Cellar, believe it or not.

I'm trying to be nicer. It's just so hard when there are so many assholes. :)

Hey! I represent that.