Friendship's value
 

Over periods of time of socializing I tend to accumulate friends, people I have fun with and bond with and will be helpful towards. Then something will happen - a situation where I am the one who needs others - and it will act for me as a great filter, a relationship extinction event that only the strongest friendships survive. I know it's not a realistic sentiment, but somehow in my mind not all allies in life have to be my friends, but all friends have to be allies. A friend who doesn't give a shit is... Well, not much of a friend.

What do you do with "friendships" that turn out to not be as genuine as you would have thought? People who like to hang out with you, perhaps find you enjoyable or entertaining or like your insight, but will not actually be there for you when you need them or act with your best interest at heart, even after you have being there for them?

Do you break it off? Do you stick around but keep them at arms length? Do you resent the "bad investment"? Do you feel like it's ok and you've just learned your place and where you stand with them and can now keep that in mind? Do you stick around for the sunken cost? Do you go out of your way to get rid of them?

I can count on one hand the number of friends of whom I have expectations, and I've known all of them long enough to know those expectations are not ill-founded. If I am there for someone, it is because I am there for them. If they are later not there for me - frankly, it is unlikely I'd have expected them to be.

There's been an odd time through the years - so long ago though, that I couldn't really tell you how I handled it.

Like Dana said, expectations are your life's enemy, traceur. Friendships are about what you give, not what you get, and if you go into it thinking someone will owe you something once you've earned enough points, you are destined for disappointment.

Hmm I am kind of passed that. Regardless of whether you predicted behavior accurately or felt entitled to expect different behavior because of claims made or "points earned", what's done is done. The question is - what do you do with the leftovers?

Those who you can't have expectations from and can't really trust in any meaningful way - what role do you let them have in your life? Do they count as "friends"?

People you thought of as friends who didn't come through for you only got close to spy on you for your enemies. You must plot their demise and eliminate them.


... Or you could just downgrade their status to acquaintances and enjoy them for what they are.

You make that sound so compellingly reasonable :eek6:

Most bait does. :haha:

In recent times I have asked far too much of my friends. I've asked them to come into hell and rescue me.
And the people I've asked that of, all have.

I would never have expected that of them.
Because I'm not them.
My friends are always a better version of me.

I've had wonderful, intense relationships with people, who have never faced any kind of test. We've drifted apart because people do. I hold their friendships close to my heart regardless. If we came into eachother's path at some point I believe we'd take up as we left off, because the friendships were based on things that endure like humour, likes/ dislikes, shared history.

But the friends I've made here, the people who listen, read, and do so much more - well those people I can't allow to slip away. If one does it hurts. But I'll always try my best to get back to where we were, to make amends, to pay back what they invested in me. These people have kept me alive.

I don't love them because they did this or that for me.
I love them because they are totes amazeballs.

I made my last real world friend almost ten years ago. I do not expect to make any more. I don't expect much from the friends I have currently.

For me, my friend will come to the river at two in the morning to give me a jumpstart. He'll come pick me up from jail. He'll let me stay at his house if I need to.

Then there are acquaintances, and then, there are people I know.

Then there's the rest of the world.

I'd jump (start) your bones.
Plz to friend me on bacefook.

Sorry dahlink, I don't Facebook.

S'okay, me neither.

Musical Interlude
 

So.. Does that happen, to... anybody?

A bunch of people sticking together since college for a decade, all living in the same place, never moving away for a job or partnership or starting a family, never fading or growing apart, never changing their interests or social preferences... We should bash sitcoms for creating unrealistic social image expectations (Extroversion = Anorexia).

...Plus, I was thinking more like the cheers song:

"Roll out of bed, Mr. Coffee's dead;
The morning's looking bright;
And your shrink ran off to Europe,
And didn't even write;
And your husband wants to be a girl..."

Three years ago I went to a 53rd reunion of a small town Jr High. 75% of them were within 30 or 40 miles and only 3 of us had left New England.

Wow. And they all had the same friendships and cliques?

Most of my friends are gone. So called work mates "friends" Who'd call looking for work, but never called when they found a job. You'd call and yes I've been working. SUCKS.

Some people can be happy autonomously. Having someone else to share it with is icing on the cake.

Some people need others just to have their cake.

Some people even need others to help them eat it too.

You can be a friend to others who won't be a friend to you. They can be a friend to yet others who won't be a friend to them. Their others may end up being a friend to you even though you won't reciprocate. You reap what you sow ... what goes around comes around. It's one of the things that differentiates first world relationship ethics from second world ethics. Organic intelligence and subsequent education notwithstanding.

To each their own; but, the sitcoms can stay. People aren't damaged by them, just reminded that they already are.

QFT

Interesting... What do you mean?

I've examined something in the past that might be applicable, the difference between the traditional almost family like provincial model and with the mentality that holds relationships as transient in nature. The contrast being that sort of urban disposability, "why solve it and grow when the world is full of people and you can just find something better", which results in expectations getting replaced with the choice to leave, under the mentality that you can't be entitled to anyone treating you any certain way but you always have the right to leave and so do they, and that is used as a pressure bed to try to draw out the desirable behaviors, or simply replacing pressure with selection, Like children moving in interest from toy to toy rather then establishing a relationship with the subject.... I've never quite thought of it as "1st world relationships", and I am not sure if that's what you mean by it, but it seems to fit.

The needier a person is, the more difficult it is for them to grasp: Entitlement is in the eye of the beholden. ...

Oh look, there's a Friends marathon on TV! Gotta go, bye.

What makes you think anyone's entitled to demand anyone else change their attitude/behavior to suit their opinion of what they should be?

Standard chic behavior;
I love you just the way you are.
I think you should wear this instead of that.
I think you should get your hair cut different.
I wish you wouldn't use that language.
I wish you liked different music.
I wish you wouldn't drive like that.
http://cellar.org/2015/willy_nilly.gif

Nobody is "Entitled", entitlement is within the frameworks of rights, "I have a right for [what you feel entitled for], and it's not a matter of a right to have people change for you, it's not a framework of rights to begin with. You don't "have to" do anything, but you can be legitimately judged positively or negatively for what you do or don't do, and more importantly - that judgement can actually be correct or incorrect, true or false* - meaning it can be true - and the judgement doesn't end where your rights begin, nor should it, in ethics rights don't define what is right for you to do, just what is wrong of others to prevent you from doing. I have the right for free speech, but that doesn't mean saying certain things won't make me an asshole. Likewise, your friends might not be entitled to you to treat them well, but treating them badly will still make you into a bad friend.

The provincial mentality assumes and fears the judgement will carry over, mostly because it usually does - through reputation and rumors, forcing you to grow and adapt to others but in the same time not for the most genuine reasons. The urban mentality goes around it by replacing the judger with whoever doesn't have the negative judgement (yet), giving you a 2nd chance and releasing you from social obligations. In both cases social perceptions are the unfortunate replacement to better judgement calls or any general desire to treat others well.

*Doesn't really work in "good" vs. "bad" other then a shorthand for "good/bad for [person]", since values are subjective but how you stand next to them isn't.

Who the fuck came up with Provincial and Urban, they are not accurate descriptions. That's nothing but social blackmail, anyway.
That's complete bullshit, definitely the language of blackmailers, schoolmarms, and con (wo)men of all ages.

Me? I was just naming them to not assume they are directly equivalent to what sexobon meant by 1st world vs 2nd world when asking her.

Hmm... You know I am a guy right? Blackmailer? Ok... But schoolmarm and conwoman? Anyway..

Both dynamic utilize a form of coercion - in one people use themselves as "the prize" and rejection/cutting-off as "the punishment", in the other people use judgement gossip & reputation as reward & punishment, and both are means to pressure people into behaviors people want. Neither is particularly pure or with a moral high ground.

But yes - the one that forces people to adapt to people they'd otherwise rather not engage does generally lead people to challenge themselves and try to resolve conflicts or put it behind them when otherwise they'd just keep to themselves. You see that in anyone who's being in the military, it forces people to learn to look beyond their self centered bubbles (By virtue of being in larger bubbles that are still... bubbles).

Just noticed the post:
I see what you did there :D