Columbia Has Apparently Broken up on Reentry
 

Well, conspiracy theorists...how about the space shuttle Columbia (I'm a moron, I wrote "Challenger" originally, and edited it...) breaking up on reentry with the first Israeli astronaut aboard?

Even if it was a systems failure and not sabotage, will our government let this opportunity to fully justify a war in Iraq go by?

What a frigging tragedy, and a terrible blow to our space program.

Re: Challenger Has Apparently Broken up on Reentry
 

Dude, it was the Columbia. We lost the Challenger a long time ago... (1986)

Time to put the Atlantis and Discovery in the Smithsonian. The things are too old to do their jobs safely.

Time to invest in some new technology.

- Pie

The Israeli bit is suspicious, unfortunate, but I don't think it holds a lot of water. Columbia left under the tightest security ever because of this guy. It was out of range of any surface-to-air missiles, and I have to believe that if someone DID get a bomb aboard, they would have detonated it during launch instead of landing. Leaving a bomb up there longer, no matter how well concealed, greatly increases the risk factor of it being discovered and dealt with safely.

I think the most likely explanation is that whatever fell off the nose of the external fuel tank - ice, insulation, whatever - and hit furter back on the shuttle dislodged a ceramic tile or two, the crew inspected, deemed it tolerable damage, and were just wrong.

~mike

Re: Re: Challenger Has Apparently Broken up on Reentry
 

[quote]Originally posted by Pie


Dude, it was the Columbia. We lost the Challenger a long time ago... (1986)[/QUOTE


Whoops...I'm an idiot. I knew that. I was sitting here talking to the wife about the Challenger explosion as I was typing this. I agree that it is time to bring something new and better online.

Shuttle Track Shows Up on Radar
 

The line running from Northwest to Southeast is apparently the track made by the disintegrating shuttle Columbia...

Oh my God...I just woke up and thought you were bullshitting, Elspode.

The granddaddy of the shuttles...at a time in which the space program was going forward better than ever. And at a time when everybody is on edge.

:(

I hold the space program in almost religious reverence. I would *never* bullshit about something like this. I have all the respect in the world for the brave souls who ride these screaming machines for the betterment of all humanity.

A terrible thing happening at a terrible time. Let us hope that cool heads are at work right now. FWIW, the current administration line is that there's no way it could have been an act of terrorism, and they are absolutely right, from my point of view. Catastrophic system failure, either in attitude control or shuttle structure, would be the most likely, I think.

It really sucks...

From what I've watched thus far, cool heads seem to be the case, which is, of course, a good thing.

I hope this doesn't put the space program on lock down for a long period of time. Hopefully they will find out what happened as soon as possible. After all, there are currently 3 people at the ISS.

I've been watching the footage in disbelief most of today, and await the information from the crash investigation.

I did note the timing to be unfortunate ... this is a bad time of year for NASA ... Apollo I, Challenger, and now Columbia ... all of their fatalities occuring around the same time of year (1/27, 1/28, 2/1) not exact anniversaries, but close enough to be of note.

God Speed...
 

It's just sad, so sad...

I was reading the newspaper, and my daughter has been sick this week, and she was watching cartoons all morning. At around 1PM, my wife starter flipping thru the channels, (we were recently "upgraded" to digital cable, so all the channels are now different). She got to CNN, it showed "Shuttle Columbia Tragedy" on the screen as a fireball streaked across the sky, (it also showed "Live", but it wasn't).

At first I thought it was a UFO or some asteroid, then I saw the Columbia Tragedy part again. Then, it sunk in, I sat for a few seconds, mouth agape, and just said "What?" ???

Then reality sunk in, and learning it happened hours ago, I was truly saddened, and bummed. Thinking that they'll delay the space program again. I love space, the stars and planets and my telescope, and always watch the launches on NASA TV, I was sad.

God Speed to our Astronauts who'll never come home, but you will not be forgotten, for you are now forever remembered...

And have escaped the bonds of Earth...


mw

We can only hope that their deaths were not particularly prolonged or horrific.

I do believe that the communications from the shuttle were not cut off so abruptly as shown on TV today. There is a tape delay, and I would bet there is something disturbing that is not being shown to the public.

Well, you can go ahead and believe that, but the last transmission cut off in mid-syllable, so abruptly that my suspicion is that the transmitting antenna onboard Columbia disconnected from the transmitter at that moment. CAPCOM had just said "We didn't copy your last, over." so the downlink was probably intermittant just before that.

S-Band antennas 2 and 3 are embedded in the orbiter skin just forward and slightly below the left and right wing root leading edges, respectively. Houston tried to reestablish contact on UHF, but by then it was way too late.

Our entire school sat in a darkened gym and watched the shuttle Columbia land for the first time in 1981. We cheered like nuts when it touched down. Even watching it sit on the dry lake bed getting fanned off was rivetting, but the principal wouldn't let us sit for another hour.

My 6th grade teacher Mrs. Kidrick had a love of aerospace, so everything we did was aerospace and shuttle related. We won 2nd place in a national contest when we simulated a shuttle launch, orbit, and landing in our classroom. I saved every clipping, magazine, and photo I could of the shuttle.

My American Lit teacher Mr. Anderson was in the running for the teacher in space program in 1986. He and Sharon Christa McAuliffe were in the top 5 for the slot, but she got it. He went home early on January 28, 1986...

I woke up feeling kind of woozy from all the cider, Mike's Hard Lemonade, and Wingdome Rasta chicken wings and plunked myself down on the couch. I turned on the TV and saw the words "Columbia" and "Shuttle tragedy" in the same sentence on the news.

I reached for the phone to call my mom, but she passed away last year in July. I sometimes forget.

Ferris Beuhler: "What have you seen today?"
Cameron Frye: "Nothing good..."

This accident has got me reflecting on our space program. I think we have to admitt that its going nowhere. How many tons of payload have the shuttles hauled over the years and to what end? We have one puny space station, hubble the one real acheivement, a lot of military hardware, and countless comm satellites which really don't require this kind of complex delivery.

Governments control access to the frontier of space. America doesn't work without a frontier, our culture can't be productive without a place for free people to dream about. Instead of looking outward, we look inward toward controlling our fellow citizens and lets face it the rest of the planet. We need that frontier. Someone needs to wrest it free from the State. I can't really mourn astronauts, they're the few who've been allowed into what shouldn't be an exclusive club. They are the fortunate ones, even if their lives were wasted for petty goals. Thats the tragic part, I guess, they lost their lives on a bureacracies small step, intead of something more worthy.

When I'm an old man and we still have no sizable permanent presence in space, I'll be sad for humanity. I was born in '64 when I was a kid man's conquest of space was inevitable. A broad section of humanity from different disciplines would be creating human communities on a limitless frontier, what a wonderful idea. Somehow the shuttle program ended up being an end in itself rather than a tool toward that greater goal.

I must fervently disagree with your positions, Griff. The exploration of space is an incredibly complex undertaking, time consuming and expensive. While governments may not be the most fiscally efficient means of pursuing this frontier, the scope of the undertaking is, IMO, out of the grasp of "the people" on an individual or small group scale. There are amateur rocketeers working their way to a suborbital launch sometime in the next year or two, but so what? They're going to lob a box up and back down. The superpowers did that 45 years ago. Smaller commercial launch ventures, sans the backing of governmental entities are close to achieving orbital capability, but look how long it has taken.

We put the best of the best in our astronaut programs, and it is because the tasks we ask them to perform are, on the whole, difficult, varied and needing much intellectual capacity and dedication to discharge effectively. No offense, but neither you nor I are likely to qualify, now or back when we were unsullied and pure.

We explore space because we need a frontier, that I agree with, but not strictly because the government needs it. Humanity needs it. If there's nothing to strive for, even vicariously, what's the point of all this?

Anyone else have a problem with this statement?

I couldn't give a flying fuck either way about the space program, wow, we've lobbed men in space, to the moon and kept them up there for long periods. Sorry but this really has zero effect on my life and certainly does not attract the tantamount importance you seem to put on it. I live my life to enjoy it, not to vicariously explore an oversized vacuuum. Don't get me wrong, it's facinatng, but no more than any other branch of science and my life sure as hell doesn't revolve around particle physics or biochemistry.

I guess I should have prefaced everything with "This is my opinion, your mileage may vary." Clearly, yours does.

To kinda broadly paraphrase Carl Sagan on this,.. If humanity is to continue we cannot keep all our eggs in one basket.

I wouldn't want to live in space, I like green grass and high tides. There are, however, possibilities for others to chase. I'm sure there are opportunities for energy companies in space, to guess at one venture. The folks who build the infrastructure will be engineers etc... The world is overpopulated with militarists already, I'd hate to see space "exploration" continue in its present mode with room only for ex fighter jocks and other destroyers when builders are what is needed. Space based businesses would only hire for the specialties they need but that would include a broader cross-section of humanity than government is presently using.

Shuttle crews are largely from a military background because they are already trained to follow procedures and respond to external command and control. I would speculate that the private sector will make a strong effort to recruit from ex-military personnel because those are the people who will already have the precise type of training that will make them suitable for many space-based activities. That being said, there will undoubtedly be more opportunity for civilians with appropriate skills and expertise when the private sector finally manages to sustain a presence in space.

Civilians have made many inroads into the orbital component of the US space program in recent years based on their areas of expertise. I would hope that this trend will increase over time, but I wouldn't expect to see the presence of military commanders, pilots and flight specialists go away.

I think the need to discover is built into every human being. Look at many of our national heroes, Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, John Glenn, and Lewis and Clark. These people became known to all Americans and thier stories were followed as closely as they could in their respective times by the entire country. I sometimes wish I would have been born a few hundred years ago when you could actually go explore somewhere without a tour guide looking over your shoulder telling you what it all means. Space is the one of few places that human kind can go and find something new around every corner.

Curent event is but a symptom. Columbia was to be decommissioned in 2001. Heaviest, too old, too expensive, and could not even visit ISS. However the space program has bigger serious problems. George Jr's massive spending cuts imposed on NASA to put money into boondoogles such as the anti-ballistic missile system.

Under Clinton, NASA was key to building trust and cooperation between the US and Russia, and keeping aerospace engineers out of third world military programs. From this trust came some unexpected advantages such as rockets now used to launch commercial satellites.

Without performing service to ISS, shuttle's only other purpose is science. Science was probably the only reason to keep Columbia flying. Other shuttles are too tied up to service a useless ISS. Columbia which should have been retired was flying to perform the only significant function of space shuttles.

Under Clinton, some attempts to redirect NASA to new programs. But under George Jr, even science is only viewed from an MBA perspective. Cut costs. Provide no direction. Cut money while demanding big image programs - to make the administration look good.

John Kennedy spent great effort to learn what was and was not possible before directing a national goal. The moon landings were a result of that learning process. However an MBA president decides only in terms of dollars and politics. For example, his hydrogen powered car is only another boondoogle because the president does not have a clue as to how things work. Another boondoogle to mask his bad politics - promote more oil consumption and support that long list of political contributors. Hydrogen will have future purposes. But not as a this president foolishly hypes. Columbia is but the tip of an iceberg. Problems so serous that some inside NASA made direct personal appeals to the White House to stop the graveyard mentality before someone died. Problems because this president thinks like an MBA - management without knowledge or direction.

Interesting how this administration must put a spin on events so that 'lack of direction' combined with a 'cost control' mentality are not directly traceable to top management. The trick will be to limit failure only to technical reasons such as heat shield tiles. To pretend this was an isolated incident. In Washington, that should be easy. George Jr's Washington is more concerned with protecting the administration that in solving problems or providing strategic objectives. Why was Columbia still flying? 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management.

There have already been several sources inside NASA quoted as saying that budget cuts had compromised safety. I think they were borne out yesterday.

Having previously discussed a stragetic perspective, now for technical aspects. Columbia was the oldest, heaviest of the fleet. It was also doing what most every space flight has not done - carrying a massive payload back to earth. A payload that increases structural stresses. Most shuttles return to earth empty.

It is obvious that some heat shield tiles were lost when the shuttle launched. In missions where shuttles weighed less, this was not a problem but proved risky based upon resulting heat damage. However this shuttle was probably the heaviest to ever return to earth. Potential for failure was greatest. Previous shuttles with much less weight did lose tiles and suffered serious burning of the aluminum structure. But that alone does not explain a failure so quickly. Add to those missing tiles a possible failure or excessive flexing in its old wings - again due its payload.

Shuttles cannot communicate with ground during reentry for the same reasons that capsules suffer blackouts. But NASA solved this problem by communicating through TDRSS during landing. Likely, telemetry data continued to be received after voice communication was lost. But it best will take weeks before even that data is understood. Clear from evidence, massive failure occured on the left wing where it joined the fuselage. Reasons for that failure must explain why a shuttle would attempt a landing knowing that heat shield tiles were missing. Unfortunately, a decision was being made with few options which might explain why the decision to land was still made. Considering the current political climate, jettisoning the lab was not an option even though, in hindsight, it might have saved the crew.

Tom, which year did the Bush administration request a cut in the NASA budget? I'm trying to figure that one out, and I can't find it anywhere.

...zero effect on my life...
 

No effect huh? I could just say one word, but I can't. That word would be.... Velcro.

Never used Velcro? What about a re-chargeable battery (NiCad), or long lasting ones, (Lithium), like are in your computer, or miniature batteries, like watch batteries? Never drank, or your kids if you have them, from a foil-like juice container or juice box? Never had freezed-dried food? Never had a frozen meal with the ultra-thin clear plastic film covering it?

What about fuel cells? Do you have a hybrid car? Probably not, they're too new, and expensive, but they are out there and people are buying and using them. That effects you every day, less pollution.

How about a satellite dish, you got one? If so, the space program led to that. Or how about GPS? If you've used one, that came from the space and military programs combined. And your computer that you used to post your stupid post, the miniaturization of computer parts was a primary necessity for the space program, and led to faster, smaller, more energy efficient CPUs and RAMs.

Oh, lets not forget the CD players and their miniature lazers... Or, many years ago, the Video Tape, well, the mainstream availability there of, due to the space program. It was the space program that led to a more compact tape format, and smaller camera.

Oh, let's not forget things in the like of Gortex, highly insulated fabrics, nope, they didn't come form the space program. Ahh, but they keep us so warm in the cold winter months, but not the astronauts, No way... Or un-wripable foils... Or sterilizatized packaging...

I could go on but why bother? Some people just never give a rat's ass about our space program and all it has done to make this planet and technology better.

Damnit, TANG was good enough for the astronauts, it was good enough for me when I was a kid. I drank it and enjoyed it. It was my way of having a connection to the Astronauts.

No, you've never, ever used or came in contact with any single thing that derived from the space program. So, turn off you PC and go bury your head in the sand.

Sorry guys, this just pissed me off to know end. I read it at work, came home, cooked dinner, then got on here to reply. Agian, I'm sorry, but that is the most ludicrous, dumb-founded, idiotic thing I've read all f-ing day.

mw:mad:

Well, I'm glad someone said it, and I'm glad it wasn't me.:mad2:

*yawn*
Nice rant. Pity you missed my point entirely, go back to cooking dinner, please, i wasted part of my precious 56k of bandwidth downloading your crud, i'd rather now have to again at least till i'm back on cable.

Now, i hate repeating myself but clearly you were too busy peeling potatos to read what i was talking about:

In my post i specificaly stated:

(except i missed the i in facinating)

Now, since you were a little to engrossed in whether the pasta was al dente last time to work out what i was saying, i'll join the dots for you to make life easier.

My issue was with elspode's "Humanity needs it". Which, as i stated, as far as i'm concerned, is bullshit. It relates to an issue far deeper than GPS, foil containers or batteries. This idea that all of us need some mostly abstract intangible goal to make ourselves feel better, than the human race needs some idotic goal of putting something or someone somewhere that requires allot of work for the good of the mental wellbeing of all people. Thus, what i was saying, abliet inarticulately, was that I, don't need that, nor do i beleive many other people do.

That.
I what i had a problem with. As i have previously stated, science involved with the space program is often deeply interesting and has been responsible of yes, hundreds of breakthroughs that have been absorbed into everydaylife. On the other hand, that was not what i was talking about. A point you clearly missed.

I did not for example state:
"i think the science program has never produced anything of value i've had anything to do with"
Or
"I have never come into any contact whatsoever with anything that was produced, researched or developed as part of scientific research associated with or directly part of space program"

So how about your dumb-founded, idiotic post and ram it up your arse. Read before you fly off the handle, halfwit.

Now personally i beleive you're just using this as a way to vent frustration caused by other elements of your life, so do us all a favour and next time take it out on the carrots before you jump online.

Cutting edge technology.

velcro

Freeze dried food

Waldmar Jungner NiCad

Sir William Grove fuel cell

and the s. :)

~james

ah shaddup perth ;)

Time's up. Bush has never requested a cut in the NASA budget, and never ever will.

NASA is a jobs program for many locations, but especially in two places of tremendous political interest to Bush.

One is Houston, Bush's home town. The other is central Florida, where Bush's bro is Governor and where there was apparently a very tight race for the Presidency a few years back.

Now, I was unable to get the exact budget numbers, because clear descriptions of the federal budget are apparently lacking on the net. I did find that the NASA budget wavered a great deal during the Clinton administration, and that many both inside and outside of the organization were highly alarmed by 1999 cuts. After Clinton it appears that NASAs budget has been consistently on the rise; it was below $10B through 1999, and is something like $14B this year and has been marked for modest increase.

Tom, YOU TELL ME what to think of an engineering type who blatantly makes facts up to support his position. Shouldn't you be appalled at your own behavior in this thread? Why should any readers trust your future statements?

I wrote "I read it at work, came home, cooked dinner, then got on here to reply."

I did not write that I cooked dinner while writing my post as you put it, so in your words, take your "dumb-founded, idiotic post and ram it up your arse." :rattat:

Next time READ. I did not attack all of you post, I attacked your take on "Sorry but this really has zero effect on my life and certainly does not attract the tantamount importance you seem to put on it."

This could be true, if applied only to the accident, unless a piece landed in your yard. But, my overall post was that the technology that has come from the space program has indeed affected all of us whether we know it or not.

That's it. That's all I was trying to say.

Now, in the next post I'll address the issues you brought up.

AND, DON'T even get on me for cooking dinner every night for my wife and kid... I love cooking, enjoy it, and never even want them to say thank you, they do and I say "you don't have to thank me." Have you even cooked a Thanksgiving dinner for 10? Or planned and cooked dinners every night for months on end? I doubt it, so shut up. We, my family, enjoy cooking, so ...:p

mw

Man has always explored, for as long as we can determine. It's not really that "humanity" so-to-speak, needs it, it's more that it is the will of man, the dream. We explore the seas, the skies, the mountains and forests, the woods in our back yards, volcanoes, and space. Space, since now we have the technology. Man dreamed of going to the moon or into space for as long as we can determine. We can do it now so why not?

We have been to the moon. What did we learn? I don't know all the answers, but I have touched the moon rock at the Air and Space Museum every single time that I've gone there, it's a favorite... to touch the moon. Is that useful? Maybe not, but we did learn what the moon is composed of, and made a "giant leap for mankind".

Does humanity need this? No. But Man, Yes.

Did we need to go to the North or South pole? Did we need to dive deep to the wreck of the Titanic? Did we need to climb Mount Everest? Humanity does not get anything from these achievements, overall. But Man, Man accomplished this, that is just a bit different. Man has been there, left his foot print, (except Titanic wreck), and returned to tell the story, or bring back an artifact.

That's what exploration is about. Yes, I agree, it's fascinating, and good does come form it, me beef was that you said...

...zero effect on my life...

It has had an effect, whether you know it or not.

That's all. Sorry for the rant, as you put it, I was mad, OK?

mw

UT, you are blatantly wrong. So long as you have any ideas or present any information contrary to tw, you are a no good son-of-a-biscuit. The end.

OK, I typed whole lotta stuff on this, and my browser lost it. So here it is in brief. I did not say that NASA invented these things, they used and improved them. The government does not patent it's ideas, it's contractors do.

Technology: OK, they're shopping on E-Bay, most older parts are nolonger available, i.e. Titan rockets no longer being made, but NASA still uses them on occasion. Also, with a limited budget, it's cheaper to get parts online than thru the GAO.

Velcro: We all know about the sticky things in the woods that cling to your pants and legs, that's where the idea came from. But, NASA had them (I think it was 3M), make it better than the original Velcro. Also, they put it to the first practical use, and the public wanted that "stick stuff".

Freeze Dried Food: Most likely first dicovered by the Inuits, to their benefit. It had been around for awhile, but was not of good quality, think Sanka. NASA knew that freeze dried was the way to go, to compact storage and preservation, but it had to bee better tasting. NASA required better freeze dried food for it's astronauts to eat, leading to better freeze dried food on our store shelves, (if I can actually say that without gagging).

Ni-Cads: OK, this was new to me, i had no idea it was such an old idea. But, NASA needed re-chargeable batteries for the Sky-Lab and other satellites and systems that would go form light to dark. During day, the solar panels charged the batteries, at night the batteries supplied the power. Not until they were bettered/perfected by NASA did we have them in our homes, in cordless power tools, remote control cars, as regular replacement batteries able to be re-charged, etc.

Fuel Cell: NASA realized that batteries would not cut it forever. And agian, I was suprised that the fuel cell was discovered many years ago. But the Hydrogen Fuel Cell was not listed. Anyway, NASA uses them in the shuttles, and now we have them in Hybrid cars. This would not have happened if NASA had not invested the time and money into making these things smaller and safer. They will most likely be the power for our cars in the future.

Thanks Griff for the links, and not reaming me out for my references, but I did not claim that NASA invented them, only that they have come into more popular use because NASA improved or perfected the technologies, and that lead to them being more available, and now in our homes.

mw

And yeah Tom...
 

...whatever UT said.


BTW, I'm fairly new, so I hope I can refer to UT as UT.

And, my dad's name is Tom, and his intials are tw. :) :p :mad:

mw

(OMG, tw's kid is posting now! Save yourselves!)

You attacked what i said, which is what i posed, which is my post. Bloody hell i need a battering ram to get things through your thick head don't I?
Zero effect in the sense of this 'humanity needs it' idea, not in a sense that it my laptop is powered by derivitive technology for crying out loud, how many times do I need to say it. Technology is irrelevent to my point. I'll frame it to make it easier to digest: Whether we send a man to mars or not does not have any emotional or psychologycal effect on me. Whether we explore the wreck of the titanic has no emotional or psychological effect on me, i don't get a warm fuzzy glow knowing 'man has done something.

Have i made my point clear enough now? I should have said zero emotinal/psychological effect the first time, either way i hope you get what i'm saying now.

I enjoy cooking too, what the hell is your point? My planning schedule tends to be closer to half an hour though.

NASA's published budget alone does not reflect the actual budget. The 1990s were about establishing trust between the US and Russia. Fundamental to establishing trust was a program that involved Americans and Russians from the highest levels of government down to cooperation among technology workers. That program was cooperation in space, and its centerpiece, ISS.

But ISS ballooned from $8 billion to support 12 passengers to over $150 billion for only 3 occupants. Where does that extra money come from? Its not all in NASA's budget. Much funding for ISS was through alternative budget entries. Those alternative funds are how the Clinton administration covered ballooning ISS costs and a funding shortage in Russia.

Depending on who you talk to, NASA budgets remained stagnant or dropping as much as 40% over the past 10 years. But what really changed is when alternative funding programs expired during George Jr's administration (actually end of Clinton's administration) . In reality, NASA was suppose to cut or phase back on programs that were too expensive to operate.

However that did not happen. Somehow NASA was expected to keep Columbia flying, keep ISS growing, and channel few other funds to robotic space exploration, all on the same budget without that supplemental funding. X-37 rescue craft was canceled due to lack of funds. But NASA must establish a new strategic objective more in line with limited funds. That objective has not been defined.

Having recognized problem they were creating by so much funding cuts, George Jr's latest budget offered a $1/2billion budget increase for NASA. It is something. But it is too little for what NASA is expected to perform.

Necessary is a new strategic objective for NASA. Science in the manned flight program is all but non-existant because a program of cooperation (ISS) is soaking up all funds in cost overruns. So why are we still manning and operating ISS? It has no purpose other than continued cooperation between Russian and American organizations.

In the meantime, acidic insults by UT that have no relevance to the thread. Maybe he does this to entertain his sidekick Sycamore. Either way, UT has posted a paragraph of wasted bandwidth while ignoring the point of that post.

Holy shit...UT, can I REALLY be your sidekick? That would kick ass!

I did a little look into the nasa budget cut thing myself, seems bush cut some areas and promoted others. Like nuclear weaponary over human flight.

hey! how do you know hes not *your* sidekick?

~james

Acidic and irrelevant, but this time correct. I can live wit dat.

We're all sidekicks in the search for truth -n- justice! Neeeeee-haw! Nee I say nee I say neeeeeeeeeeee hawwwwwwww!

Interesting thought, James...I mean, yeah, I'm pretty fucking cool and all...I'd let you be my sidekick. But we're talking about Shepps here...he's damned near untouchable.

Regarding NASA, I found some switcheroos, but an overall increase in funding. But as usual, I'm just a big ol' fucking Dubya worshipper who kisses ignorance full on the mouth with tongue.

Always been meaning to ask. What does he taste like? Tobasco?

Pretzels and beer

What does he taste like?
To win the all so prized Hispanic vote, and because polls say it is the most popular - I would have guessed Salsa.

Nah, he just rolls out George P. or Columba when needed.

Unfortunately Columbia didn't roll. It yawwed too much

From today's NY Times:
It is unlikely that these budget cuts had a direct effect on Columbia. But they were so severe that some NASA people wrote personal letters directly to George Jr demanding that the president stop all shuttle flights before someone got killed.

In the meantime, maintenance on shuttle heat tiles, once performed by a Lockheed(?) facility in CA, was recently transfered to a whole new organization in FL. This new organization apparently was even unfamiliar with a benchmark 1990 report (by a lady engineer with a notable accent) that detailed shuttle tile failure modes and that had created many changes to how shuttle tiles were applied and maintained.

Unlikely that the proposed cuts affected Columbia, yessir I should say so.

Bush has never requested a cut in NASAs budget, and never ever will. That the NYT found $500M over 6 years of PROPOSED cuts inside an ACTUAL increase and wrote a negative story about it, including the grumblings of a Democratic Rep from Florida, does not surprise me in the least. The NYT is highly partisan and so are you.

Look you stoopid bastard, if it's printed in the NY Times, then it's gonna happen. You just don't get it, do you?

I gotta stop completely editing my posts one minute after posting them.

Okay, paint me stoopid here, but what's up with the lady with a notable accent? And how does this accent affect the current situation at NASA?

Heh heh heh. TW, you are HIGHLY PARTISAN! Strong words, UT. Make 'im cry.

Tw is also never wrong. Never ever ever ever ever wrong. I defer to his incredible intelligence. I am completely unworthy, and only half the man that he is. I don't even know why any of us bother to call him out time and time again...we are mental midgets compared to this brainiac.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back to sucking face with the president...