Quit Hoping to Hell and Start Hoping to Heaven
 

discuss?? I could make a statement but it would probably be irrational and unsatisfying. So why doesn't someone else just spell it out for us. I think the "head line" speaks for it self but, I'm curious what kind of response I could get. Think of it like gorillas in the mist I'm the anthropologist, yall are the apes so just make comments and I'll learn the behavior. :D

hope to hell is just an idiom, a figure of speech. I have never heard it used in earnest. When I've used it, it has just been as an expression of intense and fearful hoping. Not really for hell.

Banana please.

I think this is a great description of us Dwellars!

I think its derived from "hope in hell" as in the lack thereof. So it isn't the evil you may imagine, just a religious description of despair.

... to hell, apart from "go to hell" I think comes from the extent to which one is willing to undertake their endeavor. Think Orpheus and Eurydice.

Similar to "to the ends of the earth" (distance) as opposed to "'til, (or often to) the end of the earth" (duration)

As Socrates proved, there is no good and evil. Each is only a perspective. One man's hell is another man's heaven. I hope to your hell that my life is better. Or I hope to your heaven that bin Laden gets what he deserved. Heaven and hell can mean almost anything. Especially when each is only fictional.

I hope to ... that I have confused you.

There is no heaven or hell. There is only life.

Philosophy and other fictions are fun[ny].

Unless you meant beyond the idiomatic phrase "I hope to hell ____" - in which case, no, i'm perfectly satisfied hoping that, if there is a Christian afterlife (which I solidly believe there isn't), I'm not eligible for the "heaven" bit. I'm going to live my life by my own value system, in a way I find ethical, and to hell with the haters yeah?

When I was 10, I announced to the class that I did not believe in god.

The rest of the kids were *highly* confused by this. The teacher said, it's fine, he can believe that, there are many different beliefs.

One by one, about a third of the class came up to me in a kind of wonderment, having never come in contact with a nonbeliever. And most of them asked, "But aren't you afraid of hell?"

Well obviously, if I didn't believe in god, then I didn't believe in hell; and so it was entirely illogical to appeal to hell as a reason to believe in god.

These kids had learned everything at such an early age that it became part of their very existence, and actually approaching it with logic was foreign to them. They could only argue for their god within the belief system that they had been brought up into. It was an enlightening day, and at the end of it I was more certain of my non-belief than ever.

~ ~ ~

It gets worse when you learn that most of our concepts of what hell might be are not biblical at all, but come from Dante, Milton, and various church's bullshit interpretations. The bible doesn't describe "levels" of hell, for example; that's Dante. Biblical researchers find that our concept of hell might even be an effect of incorrect translations.

Also, a god who permits eternal damnation and suffering is not really the sort of god that we would look up to, not the god we can or should actually worship.

Humanity are not slaves, and when you really think about it, the idea of a god who gets angry when we disobey, and deeply punishes us, is offensive. A god who establishes a system of eternal torture is a horror.

So: fuck hell. There is no hell. It's a human invention, and does not exist.

My first Thai Chi teacher, a Thai woman, mixed a lot of Philosphy and meditation in with class, one the catchphrases was

"Live not with hope but with mindfulness", I like it.


There was an interesting History channel program about the changing nature of the Devil and Hell in the Bible, early on Lucifer is an Angel subservient to God, and develops to a seperate entity with his own realm who seeks to overthrow God.

Always hope to heaven!!! Heaven and hell are real places.

I am certain of nothing but of the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination --
Keats

This was the simplest and most coherent answer.

Bravo.. Fargon

What do you expect from gorillas in the mist?

You didn't mention that you would be casting judgement on our opinions.

Your thread is invalid. I shan't participate further.

Ladies and Gentlemen, allow me to present



Thank you!

***

Now where is my g-d banana?!

well.. Big V I was in a way leaving Fargo a banana because he was right.

I do thank you for your participation..

leaves banana for Big V.

You didn't click the link, didja?

thanks for the banana anyhow!

yes I did...

An example how to hope to heaven rather than hope to hell.

Wisdom tells me when I die my soul goes UP to some higher space realm called heaven. Common Since tells me when I die my Body Goes Down Tor-ward the Earth. Reality tells me 2 minutes before that happens, I'm going to be in A-lot of pain.

Well, JB is kind of right. Fargon's answer is simple and it is coherent (until you start pushing for details).

Does it accurately represent reality? There is no evidence for this.

JBK has said that he is on a search for truth. I think that is not quite right. I think he is, like many people, searching for an answer. It must be understandable, it must be more or less coherent. It must enable him to say, Right, that's what's going on, which means I should live my life this way.

Whether it is true in the sense of corresponding to reality is optional. And given how horribly messy, complicated and unhuman reality seems to be, an answer which meets the psychological requirements listed above is very unlikely to be true.

What is it you want, JBK? "An" answer that will end the doubt and confusion and provide guidance and maybe even a feeling of satisfaction? Or "the truth", regardless of how lonely and desolate it might leave you feeling?

I think I have gone for the second option. A lonely and desolate universe is quite nice once you get used to the idea, an you're not constantly worried about the Giant Santa in the Sky commanding and judging you.

I just want a God I can have fun with. I'm an intellectual and often times I like to think up new Ideas and think outside the box. As long as I have a fighting chance of making it to heaven. (An that's why Jesus Died on the Cross) I'm gonna keep fighting the good fight. Jesus Died on the Cross to forgive US of our sins and I'm gonna respect it. Therefore I will turn form evil do good and live my life according to the standard Jesus set. You don't believe it, so I'm not gonna force it on you however "separation of church and state" was a guarantee to keep politics out of church not church out of politics. Where they messed up at was when they took prayer out of schools. Now the Country Is just so screwed in the head that an entire generation is suffering the repercussions of Godlessness. So where I come in is as a freelance renegade fighting for the children.

Ha!

Like the missionaries that offer starving children a meal in exchange for their freedom?

NO not at all like that.. In fact I've never even heard of that... wanna explain it??

The first option then. A functional answer. Fair enough. Good luck.

Well, let's start with this: what do missionaries do? What's their function?

they reach out to lost souls..

Sure you didn't leave out a P? Hopping to Hell? Better conveyance than a handbasket.

Oh, and you discovered the exclamation warning sign thingy? Is your real first name Pam?

How did the Pope and affections become same? Or did you mean a heart's infections? Can you die if the Pope infects your heart? Is that why religion kills so many people?

Could be worse. I could have god in my heart.

Does that mean I would feel like hell? And end up in heaven?

You put your pitchfork in,
You put your pitchfork out,
You put your pitchfork in
And you shake it all about.
You hope to hell it's copasetic
And you hope to heaven too.
That's what it's all about.

You put your pointed tail in,
You put your pointed tail out,


(you finish the lyrics)

[/quote]You put your pitchfork in,
You put your pitchfork out,
You put your pitchfork in
And you shake it all about.
You hope to hell it's copasetic
And you hope to heaven too.
That's what it's all about.

You put your pointed tail in,
You put your pointed tail out,[/quote]




and then lightning strikes,
You in the head,
now your dead,
And then you check out.
That's not quite,
what I'm all about.

You put your horned head in,
You put your horned head out,
You put your horned head in
And shake it all about.
You laugh with the sinners
Or cry with the saints,
That's what it's all about.

You put your triple sixes in,
You put your triple sixes out,
...


(you finish the lyrics)

You put your horned head in,
You put your horned head out,
You put your horned head in
And shake it all about.
You laugh with the sinners
Or cry with the saints,
That's what it's all about.

You put your triple sixes in,
You put your triple sixes out,
...


you take your nazi eyes,
and you poke em the fok out,
chop off your hand,
with out a doubt,
take a bar of soap,
and eat it.

You put your lost soul in,
You put your lost soul out,
You put your lost soul in
And shake it all about.
You claim a righteous cause
To chastise other people.
That's what it's all about.

That's not fun.

We are the people,
We are the poor,
Life sucks for us,
And we ain't takin,
It no more.

BTW by this time tomorrow I will be in "win more" a PHP Partial Hospitalization Program. Hey Mel You uh realize I'm reverse engineering that video game don't you.

Good luck with partial, I hope that you find it helpful.

Spiritual Suicide?? That's what I feel like I did.

Try the Haldol Dec. It's on special this week.

Luke 22:42, Jesus hoping to heaven.

I haven't seen that one. Can you post a YouTube video?

I liked that scene in that Mel Gibson movie.

They said I just need to stop using "loose associations" and there going to get me some sleeping pills...

you can get pills for loose everything these days....