Too big or too small? (nsfw)
 

What do you think?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...36_468x706.jpg

Here's the story if you want to know it, but basically it's simply a comparison between runway models and normal to larger sized women.

I like women. I like normal women. The pictures of women in media are often pretty, but when I see a woman of the same size in real life, they look ... bony or fragile. I have an image of healthy that includes CURVES. Flesh, padding, softness, these are womanly characteristics and they are attractive.

Now, having said all that, the physical appearance is secondary to what really constitutes genuine beauty, and that is attitude. There are all kinds, of course, but no amount of physical anything can overcome an incompatible attitude. As Hallmark as it sounds, inner beauty shines through anything, clothes and flesh included. Physical appearance is easier to see from a distance, quicker to notice. And attention counts. If my attention is not caught, I can not learn anything about what's more important inside. I try to withhold judgement about appearance until I can learn more, important things first after all.

I agree completely.

People come in different shapes and sizes.

My daughter looks skinnier than the woman on the left, but that's just the way her body is. She has absolutely no self image hangups and she eats as much as I do. Usually, anyway. Last night, when I pigged out on 6 tacos she only had 3. But normally she packs the food in there just like I do.

We are a tall skinny family. I don't know why. We may be a little more active than most, but my wife is the only one who actually goes out and exercises on purpose. We eat healthy foods, for the most part, but aren't nazis about it.

Anyway, my point is that in the rush to try to accept plus sized models as being normal, sometimes people will criticize skinny models. And that's just as bad as criticizing the ones with curves. I don't want my daughter to ever hear that being skinny is ugly. She is skinny and will probably always be skinny. She doesn't need to hear that.

I'd do either of them. :)

Heck, I'd do both of them. :D

I think the thin one is a bit too thin, but I'm not going to say no to her for it. I'll cook her a nice dinner first.

Just talking about physical attributes here. Once past the initial physical thing, women become more beautiful or more ugly the more I get to know them depending on who they are.

I've always like women with curves. Just my preference. You've seen Mrs. Joe, I have to tell her all the time that the most painted women in history are the voluptuous ones. I have never really got the cultural thing that sexxy women are all stick and thin. Bone is for the dog, MEAT is for the man!

Oh, by the way....the chick on the right in that picture...man...wow..way more hot then that little thing on the left.

what are ya talking about? so many man like larger women, why are woman so obsessed about this? its totally irational b.. wait a minute.
*research*
...that's why.

women are obsessed about this because it is actually completely rational, given that society favors attractiveness (in all people), but the standards of what counts as attractive in women are a lot more unanimous.

sure both me and Ali can have large fat bellies (i am guessing), but the price she pays for loosing the globally admired guitar shape is a lot bigger then the price i am paying for not having a six pack... because for every man whose going to put that aside and think she's hot for having large breasts (that usually acompany big women) or any other trait, a lot more women are going to look past my belly and think i'm hot for being tall or because of any other trait.

and that... has to suck. i know i sound like an asshole most of the time, but you really have my compassion there - i imagine its like being the only suspect whose a minority member in a police investigation - it might not be your fault but you know your screwed... except that there's someone going over the suspects whenever a man's head turns to another women rather then you.


and i know it can be a genetic nightmare to change: i can tell you that in the boot camp i remember doing the exact same runs other guys are doing, eating the exact same meals with the exact same portions, and while some of them came in with a beer belly that disapeared, and others develop six packs, i barely lost anything, even in an environment where my bad habits have no room of expression. frustrating as hell.

but it ain't no skin color you can raise as a flag, because while in reality different people have to make an extremely different level of affort to achieve the same results, it its not impossible; i did loose the larger portion of my weight eventually (and gained it back since), and i know people who where more overweight then me that became bony little sticks. and that's what makes it all the more both better and worst - it gives you hope, but it also makes it your own fault.

now you can do what i saw sundae do in another thread and tell yourself there's something wrong with those man - small dicks, stupid, bad breath, whatever. you can tell yourself that there's something wrong with those other women. stuff like that would probably make you feel better, but the reality is its neither, and its not something wrong with society either - that's just a bunch of people attracted to a bunch of people.

its something that society deemed unattractive - because of your gender almost unanimously - that you have, that is technically your fault, and a fucking nightmare to change.

and all the expectations of fairness in the world aren't going to make that fair.

p.s.
yea i just sort of jumped to the point where this sort of threads usually lead. just imagine people staring talking about why society thinks this or that are important and me answering them with this post.

'Plus size' models are between sizes 6 and 14?

Weird. Size 14 is borderline, but I don't see how they could consider anything size 12 or under 'plus.'

'50% of women wear a size 14 or larger, but most standard clothing outlets cater to sizes 14 or smaller.'

I don't understand why...most of the clothes I always see sitting on clearance sale racks are size 8 or smaller.

Yeah and that sucks.

Being short and small these days means my clothing choices are slim. Petite departments in my town have really cut back on what they offer, and usually only cater to the geriatric crowd.

It used to be that I could get way with wearing just normal smalls, but now they are too big. I haven't changed, the way they size clothing has.

So long as their cocks stick out past their stomaches, I don't care.

:-)

You should come shopping in Philly, Pico. You'd have vast amounts of sale outfits to choose from!

And I LOVE clearance shopping the best too!

I can drive to the Macy's in Indy - the selection does improve there somewhat, Im just bemoaning the change around here. I used to find a lot at Kohls, but no more.

It's women who make other women feel inferior. It's women who believe that super skinny (and I'm not talking about naturally thin, I'm talking unhealthy super skinny) is best. It's women who fall prey to that type of marketing.

Why? I have no idea. Yes, be in good shape. Yes, be thin or not thin or somewhere in between. What makes you happy in your own skin?

Eating disorders are very real and very destructive, but I know few women who have a completely healthy and positive attitude about their body. There is just so much pressure. Not from men.

And that's all I have to say about that.

:eek:what? Like... to my sternum?

I don't buy it. Scroll through the Men's Health "Hottest Women of 2011" results and let me know when you get to one above a size 6... It's true that when shown a naked chick who is a size 14-18, yes, all men will jump in about how they find her plenty attractive, or even more attractive than the skinny girl with no face. But in the grand scheme of things, the vast majority would choose the one who is a size 4-6, because they're biologically programmed for that ideal hip-to-waist ratio.

Who are the majority of fashion designers, who choose the models for their clothes? Men. (Gay men--who, incidentally, often prefer a more androgynous body shape. This past season on project runway, there was a challenge to design for real women, and one of the men didn't even know what DD meant, and after he was informed he was completely flustered at the impossibility of sewing such a curvy garment.) Who are the majority of digital visual designers, who use photoshop to make that model a little skinnier, sometimes without realizing they've made a farcical picture of a human? Men.

Women don't pressure themselves to be the skinny chick--they hate the skinny chick. Believe me, I know. I can't tell you how many times I've been told to my face by other women, "Ugh, you're so thin!" with complete disgust. On the one hand, yes, they're covering up for their own dislike of their own body, but on the other hand what they really want is not to be magically skinny, because then on some level they know they'd be hated like I am. What they really want is for me to gain weight and be like them. Misery loves company.

Let's face it, men do what they're told. by their mothers, wives, girlfriends, friends and the media.... (in that order) So if they end up single and alone... guess who's dictating their likes......


:bolt:



;) <<<<<<<<<< (for those who need cues........)

Sometimes I feel really naive, because honestly, I am not the woman who has disdain for women who are thin. That my words conveyed that I in some way condoned this disdain...wow. Really?

Because I am the woman who compliments other women all the time. Your hair looks great! I love that color on you. You could wear a burlap bag and look good, girl.

You're so right about the men's magazines though. Their words around here that I've read say that most men don't want that perfection thing. So either they're fibbing, or they don't pay attention to those magazines.

;)

No no, your words didn't convey it. I didn't mean to sound bitchy at you personally. The "too skinny" vibe is just a sore spot with me, I tend to push back on it too hard.

I can understand that. I certainly have sore spots of my own.

But really, I liked your post.

:)

Hey Clodfobble

I think you've approached this question from a perspective different than my perspective, and not just the fact that you're a woman and I'm a man. When I was answering Aliantha's question, I read, and answered it according to my personal feelings about what I find attractive. What I hear in your statement, especially with respect to the magazine and clothing, is that a certain range of physical characteristics are being showcased *for a definite purpose*, to sell something.

And then after that, I feel our opinions are very similar. Here's why. Physical appearance is something that can get my attention, and help me form a first impression. This is true for a woman I see in real life and it's true for a picture of a woman I see in a magazine. I'm a visual person (like most people). But that only goes so far. For there to be a real attraction beyond attention, I need to know more. I would talk to the woman, and see how things turn out from there. I would read the advertisement or article and see how things turn out from there.

The thread title actually says "Too big or too small?" and I think the answer is no to both. Neither woman in the picture is too big or too small. It was just my own thought process that connected "What do you think?" and nakey women to "Let me tell you what I find attractive. Maybe I drove the conversation in that direction, who knows.

But what is attractive, what is too big or too small, those kinds of questions require context. I offered my answer within the context of what I like to see and touch. I would refine my answer if the context were what image increases sales the most.

I'm going to respond to the discussion from my very own personal standpoint and experience.

When I was younger and at my best, I was still a shapely woman, meaning that I was never what anyone would describe as skinny or even thin probably would have been stretching it. Slim maybe at a pinch, but even then I wouldn't have agreed. At the time I felt like I was fat though, and didn't really appreciate the attention i got from men on a real level. Not until a couple of weeks ago when I was having a chat with an old friend who was one of my main party pals back before kids and all when we were both single.

I was saying how she had this pair of hotpants that I was always jealous of when she'd wear them out because she just looked so good in them. Her response to that really made me think. She said, "yeah well, I was always jealous that you were the one men were always buying drinks for and the one being asked to dance."

I'd never really looked at it that way, but i guess it's fair to say that we're all wearing blinders a lot of the time. I always thought she got plenty of attention, but apparently she wasn't feeling the love. We see what we want to see from our own perspective, and in doing so, sometimes we totally miss all the good stuff that's coming our way, and that's a shame.

Over the years, I've come to realise that it doesn't matter how many horny blokes buy you drinks in a club or a pub, it's the one who actually wants to talk to you and get to know you that's worth knowing, rather than the one who thinks he'll get in your pants once he gets you drunk. And it's not the guy that wolfwhistles that matters. It's the guy that notices you having trouble with your groceries and offers to help, and believe me, as far as eye candy goes, it's not usually your typical stud who's doing those things. He's usually the one standing there waiting for you to jump his bones just because he condescended enough to share the same air space with you.

Through the course of my life, I've had men from both sides of the coin, and I can honestly say, that I'd rather be with someone who appreciates me for the beauty you can't see, rather than the one who can't see past the surface. Fortunately, I found a man who loves me for the whole lot, and not just the tits and arse I keep shoving in his face. ;)

The Economist once discussed this. The woman wants a man who will be faithful and responsible father to the kids. But she may also want a good fling. The point was that is important for the gene pool and survival of the species. That 20% of kids are actually fathered by someone who is not really their father.

In the early days of matching for kidney transplants, that 20% number was confirmed. What is true today even applied to the so ethical and squeaky clean 1950s. Being desirable (whatever that might mean) only makes both choices easier.

Is the one on the left an adult?

Oh well, 66% of my kids were fathered by someone other than my husband.

Sternum?


















Damn near killed 'em.

:p:

My current girlfriend is a size 12 FWIW. I tell super skinny chicks to eat a cheeseburger *shrug*

After careful thought, I'd choose the one on the right.

Cause of the two, I reckon she'd be the one who knows how to cook. :D :bolt:

I have a plaque in my kitchen that says, "Skinny cooks can't be trusted!" lol

I suppose I'll have to take it down when I lose all my weight, not that I plan on getting to skinny.

And when you do, you're being an ass. *shrug*

Having had periods when I was overly thin and unable to gain weight (along with times when I was the other way around) for various health reasons, I agree.

My youngest niece is tiny. She's started gaining height, and is now quite tall, but she is still very very slim. I suspect she may always be. She eats as much as any 13 year old. And though she mostly eats a healthy diet, she also likes to pack in a cheeseburger when she can. McDonalds seems to be one of her and her friends' regular haunts.

The truth is whatever shape you are as a woman someone will make you feel shit about it, even if that someone is only yourself. Mostly though it's other people. And yes, women can be bitchy and jealous and all that, but men make casual comments all the time about women's body shape either to their faces or in their hearing.

It seeps into every part of our culture. A constant running commentary, of which this thread is part, on what shape of woman is attractive.

Positive, negative, anti-fat, anti-thin, health-related, beauty related, real and fantasy women. All the time, everywhere in every possible public forum, in all media, across the world, how women should look, act, sound, earn, parent, dress, plan their families, shape their bodies.

Do you think men have similar pressures?

No. I think there are pressures on men. But I don't think they are subject to the same level of constant scrutiny and analysis as a gender as women are.

There isn't the same level of cultural anxiety around what makes a man as there is around what makes a woman. Though there is now some anxiety around what is a man, and that makes it seem like a very big question. But the reality is that the question of what is a woman is neverending, always present and only really waxes and wanes in terms of the levels of anxiety and prescription.

Nope.

Well, maybe about careers.

Yeah, I was going to say that men are under pressure to provide an ever-increasing salary, be very handy with tools, and maybe play baseball outside with their kid every afternoon. But I don't think they have to deal with image pressure at all. If anything, they get anti-image pressure, because if you care too much about your image, it's implied that you must be gay.

Think about the sexualising children debate. Is it really a debate about children? or is it actually a debate about sexualising girls? There is absolutely no corresponding debate about sexualising boys.

The question of what is a girl is fundamentally more important to us as a culture than the question what is a boy? That's one of the reasons boys who don't fit the picture become so culturally downgraded. because by not being like a boy they are being 'like a girl'. The emphasis is not on what a boy should be, but what he should not be: ie, like a girl. The core definition involved is ....what makes a girl.

The bigger woman looks more healthy and generally sexy but I wouldn't turn either one away.

If you refer to the same "men's" magazines that idealize unattainable body types, you'll find plenty of paranoia about hairlines, pecs, and abs. Thing is those are magazines for early twenty somethings, hardly men yet, who are really lost about their place in the world, not having figured out what is truly important to them and are easily swayed by advertising as they come out of the teenage fog of testosterone induced irrationality. The media blitz continues against women though, well past the age they seem to give up on men, Cialis not with-standing.

I don't think those magazines play as prominent a role in young male culture as the equivalent do in young female culture. It's also less all encompassing. It's in the lads mags. But it isn't everywhere they look all the time from their toddler years onwards.

It is hard, but we have to teach our girls to be skeptical of media images. That is just another reason to turn off the tv if you're raising kids.

Don't just turn it off. Throw it out the window.

... and shoot it twice before it hits the ground.

It's OK. Kids are rejecting TV in spades.

http://www.7x7.com/tech-gadgets/how-...-and-ecommerce

What's TV? Do they still have that?

Women are viewed by men as potential breeding partners (Sex Objects)
Men are viewed by women as potential providers (Success Objects)

Or as my friend's step dad says:

"There's two things that make the world go 'round, money and pussy. The money is chasing after the pussy and the pussy is chasing after the money."

Now you can go get an advanced degree in gender studies at some fancy university and put that simple truth in all sorts of fancy terms or you can just acknowledge it and put that bit of wisdom to work in your favor.

Women, that means use your pussy to its highest purpose to find the money to make you comfortable.
Men use your money to its highest purpose to find the pussy that makes you happiest.

I dunno...

I think they're just getting their ads in different places. And beyond that, some of the differences are just age:

They're comparing young kids to adults, not young kids to an earlier generation when they were also young. Hippies thought they weren't going to let "the man" tell them where to shop either, but now they walk into Target just like everyone else.

Women are view by women as competition.
Men are viewed as men as just another dude.

The women are comparing themselves to the other women... but the men are comparing their woman to the other women, too.

Because they are in competition for the same resources. The men also compare their bank accounts with other men by displays of their obvious signs of prosperity and or just plain alpha male behavior.
I think that's mostly because we know it's the woman who gets to choose the man she wants.

I'll make my own money, thank you very much.

I guess you'll just have to use your hand. ;)

...then finish it off with one behind the speaker.

That's what Bill said too... :rolleyes:

I am more likely to be physically attracted to a soft woman, but there are plenty of very attractive women of all sizes in the world.

sent along by a friend on fb

http://cellar.org/2012/whichhotter.jpg

Keira looks like death heated up.

It didn't. But then look at Lousie Brooks. Tastes and fashion come and go. Be happy with who you are, is my advice to us.

More hot skinny chicks from the Roaring 20s here

I would advise her against having her picture taken while wet.

That's fine, I know I'm an ass. Just my opinion, I like girls with some meat on them. Not chicken legs.

eh hem... height? just sayin.

yes, true. And hair.

The scrutiny and judging of others has a lot to do with how much men or women care about certain aspects of themselves. I have noticed that the women who are more likely to judge other women for their outfits and dress are the ones who spend more time ready to 'go out'. The men who are constantly sizing themselves versus other men are more likely to care about being muscular. Women just tend to care more about their body type and dress than men do.

Also, I believe there are two competing standards of beauty for women in the US. There is the stereotypical skinny standard that it prominent in many magazines and fashion and there is also a curvier standard of beauty, which is becoming more popular. I hear both standards are 'ideal' all the time.

the window, the window
the second story window,
high, low, low, high
he threw it out the window!

Another pearl of wisdom from my friend's FIL is "There's an ass for every seat."