Divorce: perparing for the war
 

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Several dwellars have and I am sure they will be able to help. Meanwhile you have my sympathy - come here to vent all you like!

i know the feeling. i went over a year and a half without seeing my youngest. bitter court battle, lots of money spent, and now the ex and i are friends

big sarge, may i ask... how much money?

i sort of already did vent a lot about it... what's left of my anger is pretty much silent rage and a lot of anxiety at this point.

i am mad at her for going this route, but right now there's an irational part in my brain fantasizing that this is somehow for the better, that its all going to come out of a legal drama movie, that the judge is going to see my boy call me dad and run to me and she's going to decide to give me shared custody or at least visiting rights like weekends and holidays and the canadian parmement residence to fulfill them. then after a long process of therapy which is going to take a 5 minute montage, my stubborn never-changes-her-opinions-on-anything xwife is going to magically see her errors and ask herself what kind of person she was to have done all this shit and what lead us to that point, beg for forgiveness.
then i'll get the witts cognitive skills and beauty i originally fall inlove with along an all new aspect of the emotional intelligence required for a health relationship, our love is rekindled and we'll all be a happy family again, living happily ever after, our son will be first president of united earth government, we travel all over the world, and genetic engineering will keep her perfect butt and shapely hips until the day we die together giving each other heart attacks while her improved foot-longer legs embrace me.

that's what's going to happen, right?

This but is true :) but it won't look like it just yet, I fear. Hang in there.

Hmmm, this milk smells like it's gone bad. Maybe if I put it back in the fridge again it'll be OK tomorrow.

In many cases, NOT ALL ...
The only people that "make out" from a bitter divorce are the attys. The get rich playing off your fear/anxiety/worry/anger... They are masterful at it.
Talk to her somehow and discuss the waste that it will be and see if you two can put your differences aside and agree to something.
Mine cost tens of thousands - just on my side. She still hasn't paid her attys. as far as I know. YMMV

Mr. Clod's custody battle, which he did as cheaply as humanly possible and didn't involve divorce proceedings at all, just the custody question... it cost about $6,000 all told.

Where's the vent? So I can get the backstory...

Kids are the innocent victims in a divorce. They don't deserve the hurts they receive as a result of the machinations involved in a family breaking up.

So my first suggestion would be to try to resolve this through talking, as Classic said. Is there a specific reason she said you won't be talking to your child? Or just vindictiveness? Does she care at all about the child's well-being? Seeing both parents IS in the best interests of the child (unless you are an axe murderer or rapist or child molester or something else horrible). And it's the law. So if she refuses to consider complying with the law and insists on being unreasonable, I would probably play hardball and go for full custody.

I have read snippets that lead me to believe this issue spans the US/Canadian border? There are plenty of legalities involved with visitation/custody/support when it's international, I highly recommend a good lawyer to help you with this.

Also, be proactive, don't just react to her. Decide what you want and go after it, instead of wait for her to attack and then defend.

It's important to note that it isn't actually his child. He was a stay-at-home stepdad for 2 years, which is certainly emotionally important to the kid, but legally, he's not even a resident of the country. He has absolutely no rights to see him, unless she magnanimously decides to allow it.

Traceur, if what you really want is residency and a relationship with this child, I'd do everything I could to place nice with her. But it sounds like she's beyond that, and you may not be in a position to "save" the kid from her or anything else. Also remember that with any visitation granted will come child support, thousands upon thousands of dollars a year. If you get put on record as the nominal dad, that's permanent, and that money will continue to flow from you no matter where she moves or who else she shacks up with. It may be time to batten down the hatches and just protect yourself as best you can.

And if you don't pay child support that you are supposed to be paying, in the US, you can be thrown in jail until you pay. I know someone (a real jerk) who had this happen to him. He spent about a month in jail before his parents came up with the thousands of dollars he owed his ex.

Gotcha. That's why I asked for the backstory. Disregard my advice as irrelevant.

As ex-step dad, you probably don't have any rights that she doesn't grant you.

I let my son go visit his ex-step dad along with his half-sister for as long as everyone involved wanted it. Both son and XSD lost interest fairly rapidly and they haven't spoken in years now.

Traceur, make one of your own! Reproducing your own DNA is one of your main goals as a member of the human race.

honestly when we where together i didnt see a contradiction adopting him as my own and having children because she continuesly talked about wanting to have children with me and it was me putting it off for better economical times when we both have income... i guess that doesn't really apply anymore.

and as far as talking things out, i tried that there, i tried that here first thing when i came back, and then i tried asking for a 6 month cool down period... she 'nay'ed me on all 3, she's as far off beyond reason as she can be.

i should note that she is still getting child support form the boy's biological father, not x husband, but at some point before me she went on welfare and the government sued him to pay it before they would need to, and she's still getting money for it, even though its the minimum legal amount (150$ a month). can she even get child support from one x and spousal support from another?

and do lawyers have... payment plans?

Hoo boy... no, they can't order child support from two people (at least not in the US.) But that also makes your chances of getting visitation even less.

Here's how I see it: you're already in another country, so presumably you took all your stuff, and you must not have any major pieces of shared property like a house or car. So just walk away. Let her file the divorce papers in absentia, let her pay her lawyer to do everything. You don't have to hire a lawyer at all, as long as you're not trying to fight for anything.

[not a parent, never divorced, don't know canadian law, don't have complete information, but...]

If it were not for the child there would be no reason for the two adults not to walk away and never contact each other again.

Although you and the child formed an emotional bond, and the separation is distressing for you and presumably for him, over time this will heal. Getting to visit him/host him for one weekend a month or one month a year or whatever will just keep ripping that scab off until it hurts, reforming and rebreaking that bond.

It will not be good for him, and it wil not be good for you.

Let it go.

Just my view, yours may differ.

[/ :2cents:]

can the court even grant me parmement residence of something along the immigration process so that i could use any visitation rights?

also, i found this:
"The amount of spousal support is 1.5-2% of the difference between the spouses’ gross incomes for each year of marriage and duration is 0.5 to one year of support for each year of marriage, with duration becoming indefinite after 20 years."
- the canadian divorce act

i am not sure if this means the income we had or the income we have, but considering that in the first case i was a stay at home dad, and in the second case all i have right now is that i might be getting a few articles published and am applying to jobs at an israeli minimum wage which is about a 3rd of canadian minimum wage...

the only thing she has any chance of getting is into legal debts of 30 to 50 thousand canadian dollars, which she doesn't have and the only way her family could help her with is by selling there damn house or getting a second mortgage...

what the hell is she thinking by pressing a lawsuit?

She would have to pay you wouldn't she? Except you might find that rule is invalid if you don't live in the country still.

pretty much, and i really don't want her money. i didn't like it that it had to be the case in order to stay with her and the child when i was there, i definetly don't want it now.

and even if she does somehow win by means of legal mojo, we're talking about an insiginificent amount on a monthly basis for no more then two years, it will never pay for any significant portion of her own legal fee's, which will add to her huge OSAP debt (canadian version of student loan) that is also about 40 thousands dollars... she will be in debt for the next few decades.

and why? out of spite. i really think she's out of her mind for going this route.

What exactly has her lawsuit specified? Is she asking for spousal support in the documents? Or is she just filing the divorce papers, and you've worked yourself up for a "war" that isn't going to happen? Yes, she's said nasty things to you, but what do the actual divorce documents say?

so far she hasn't sent anything, just said that she will.

Pfft. Fuck that then. She's all talk. Don't worry your pretty little head about any of it. Go through your grieving process over losing contact with the kid, make yourself go on a few dates, and slowly learn to be grateful that you're free from Teh Crazy (TM.) Someday, you'll see it as a blessing.

but if she does and i am unprepaired isn't it going to screw me big time?

Fuggit. You aren't a Canadian anyway. This has got to be the biggest clusterf*ck of a lawsuit...
What does she really think she can get from an unemployed, non-resident who isn't the biological father of her child?

I wouldn't worry about this until you get papers. There's really not much you can do in advance, and it seems unlikely that anybody would come after you since there is no money in it for them.

No offense, but you kind of seem to have nothing to be screwed out of. :)

You'll have plenty of time to deal with whateer shit she throws when it arrives, which it quite possibly never will.

Until then, fuck it. Take your uzi down the practice range and blow some shit away, that'll make you feel better.

another aspect is where the trial takes place.

if she sues and i counter sue, I'll be subpeona to canada and it will go under canadian law.
if i sue and she counter sues, she'll be subpeona here and it will go under Israeli law.

if both law systems favor me, i would rather go with the israeli one, both financially (cheaper legal fee's, no flight or visits costs), and because honestly I crossed the atlantic for this women one time too many.

anyway I gave her a generous time frame to tell me if she's not sueing, i saw the messages being read (the little circular arrows on skype disapearing), and the time frame is over.

If you were married under Canadian law, surely you have to be divorced under Canadian law.

Or hey, just move to Greenland, they have no extradition treaty with Canada.

Look, here's what it boils down to. You are bitter and angry, and you want to sue her for some amount of stuff and/or money, and to get her kid taken away from her and sent to his biological father, possibly for his benefit but also to hurt her.

You are implicitly asking us permission to do this, on the pretense that she was going to do it to you first. But you're not getting it, from me at least. You got screwed, yes. But you need to walk away. Revenge will not get you what you want.

You forgot the bit about being a drama queen and wanting Canadian Citizenship -although maybe you covered the latter with the bitter and angry bit.

How many people actually go to trial when they divorce? A handful. Especially not ones without joint legal or biological custody of a child and no money to shake a stick at. It's a non issue. As is the claim for custody/visitation. The kid won't even remember him. Harsh, but true.

And as for the sponsorship for Canadian Permanent Residence, she wouldn't be in a legal (or financial) position to sponsor him after the divorce. Doesn't sound much like she was even before it.

not really: i am asking her for "permission" to do it. a.k.a. informing her that if she is going to take legal action, only then i would follow through with doing the same. based on what she said, she gave it to me.

since then i further informed her of the financial consequances and that i will proceed unless she changes her mind unless she does it after the point i sign a contract or pay the lawyer, because frankly my family helped me pay for one lawyer too many based on her false promises (The immigration lawyer).

basically: she tells me she lets it go & i'll let it go, and that means i want to hear no legal threats from her, ever, or for that matter any attempt to gain any power over my life at any point in time.

from you i am simply asking for advice about how should i do it.

as far as costudy goes, from the emails i got from the lawyers so far, that is the one and only case i considered which isn't likely to succeed. one lawyer said otherwise but her entire response line indicated she didn't read a thing i told her beyond the word "divorce"... so no, this isn't on my table.

If you say so. You will end up divorced whether it is long and expensive, or quick and painless. After that, legal threats from her are a moot point, so I'm not sure why you would be worried about them for all eternity. It looks to me like she currently has power over your life, from the way you are letting her determine your reaction to her.

Wise words, Clod.

maybe i should just contact the canadian embassy here and send her standard divorce papers, giving her an easy consequance free option to sign. in the mean time i'll just go on doing my research and lawyer correspondense for the cases.

if she sends them back signed, wonderful, if she doesn't, i can know for sure where she stands.

on a different note, i found out that my acount in another forum (the one dana took me from) has changed its password and retrieval email and had user activity while i was asleep. its quite possible that i forgot to change the password on that one... god damn it.

Clod's brain nails it again.
IMO you are headed toward the Looooong and expensive route.
The most you will get in return are annual holiday cards from the atty.
hope its worth it. I have SERIOUS doubts.

Don't do anything. Let her do it. Just sign the papers when they come if the terms are okay. Why the hurry when you dread the process?

wait so if she does it i don't pay the legal fee's?

Wait - maybe there will be no war.
You have very little if anything to gain and tons (of $$$$) to lose.
Dude, been there done that.

Step back from the edge of the cliff and start upon the path of YOUR new life.
Got a job? If not, go find one.
Got a hobby? Go and enjoy doing it. If not, go try something new.
Got a dog? Take it for a walk.
Start moving forward doing whatever it is you need to do to be happy.

i've rebuilt my life several times, but this time i have no idea how.

as far as the boy is concerned, i can barely stop thinking of him. every distraction comes back to bite my ass with "he'd love this" or "i wish i could do that with him" or "if he ever did that he'd be on time out", and lacking a distraction i just get worried and anxiest about him.

as far as she is concerned, wherever i make the transition from mad to sad, she comes back and pulls another crapy spiteful move, from continues threats to messaging me through my little sister (who doesn't even know how to read english) to the bloody little hacking move that moderators there have being working all day to fix.

a bigger and bigger part of me is just considering to say "fuck it" and press charges. let the state of canada represent me - the hacking thing alone ranges between a fine and a maximum of 5 years in jail. the only reason i have not to is the consequances to her child, and with every move she makes i feel pushed further and further. (edit: i would get some satisfaction in knowing she's doing some community service and picking dead animal carcasses though.. hm).

the thing is that right now i don't know, for the first time in a long time, where she's coming from. taking these sort of risks to her sense of independence and security, aspecially in the financial side, is so out of character for her. nothing is more important to this woman then her sense of independence, not love, not spite, nothing. this is just completely out of character for her.

Dunno dude ... you gotta disengage from her and start anew.
Have your lil sis BLOCK your ex's number.
Put one foot in front of the other and keep movin'

This.


Trace, let her do what she is going to do. Have no contact with her and get on with your life.

The only power she has over you is the power you grant her.

As long as you continue to dance the dance, you will stay stuck and in pain. Do what's best for YOU. Do you honestly think reacting to her bs, looking for ways to obtain vengeance, or obsessing over the child is best for YOU?

I've lost a child I loved that wasn't mine. Two of them. I have their half brother, and they don't even know about him. Sad what kind of hurt we inflict on one another out of spite. But I can tell you that the hurt will ease with time.

Step out of the arena and move on with your life. As they say, living well is the best revenge.

Go forth and live well.

Yes, this is what several people have tried to tell you. You don't have to hire a lawyer at all. You don't have to pay for anything. The one filing for divorce has to pay for all of it. The only way you pay any money is if you hire your own lawyer to start a fight.

Good advice here Trac.
I didn't pay a penny to get divorced - it was all handled by my husband, because he was the one who wanted it.
I left him, but as I knew I would never marry again I wasn't bothered about paperwork.

People here know about leaving children. How painful it is. Some Dwellars have fought to remain part of their children's lives. But there is nothing you can legally do. Not now, and at no point in the future. Of course it hurts like buggery. But sad as it is, you just have to take in what Stormie wrote - it will get easier, even though you don't want it to right now.

There is a very good chance you will have biological child(ren) of your own. They'll never replace your son, but at least you will have legal rights this time.

Let her wear herself out in spite and anger.
You can only change you.

Weird. After posting this and while thinking of this former relationship, I did a fast google search on this ex. He is my son's father, although they've only seen each other 3x (ex's choice). So what pops up? His obituary! He died 3 weeks ago and his obit was posted yesterday. How very strange the coincidence!! He was only 66 yrs old :eek:

edit: stormie are you serious? i am sorry for your lost...can't imagine how that has to feel. really, my brain can't digest the possibility at all.

argh, maybe you guys are right. sundae & stormie nailed it:

seriously how does that work? do you stop loving him when your thinking about him? you stop thinking about him? this isn't romantic love that requires mutuality, this is a person who you loved so much you chose to make it your life's endeavor to help him grow into the best man he can be to the best of your abilities, and now you can't.


and honestly one of the things i am most angry about is her bullshiting my stepson about it being a mutual decision - that i wanted to leave. i was living in hell with her for the last 5 months of our relationship so i can keep him, i wanted to work on our problems and get couple therapy so that we'll have a chance to be a family again, and when that stopped being an option i wanted to finish the immigration process through the canadian embassy in israel so that she doesn't have to support me while i am there and i can still come back to live somewhere nearby and be a weekend & holidays father like regular divorces, which my immigration lawyer told me i could have done as long as she still signed the sponsorship papers. i love him and i would have never left him by choice... and the fact she's telling him otherwise is pissing me off. so far i am the only dad he ever knew, and based on her stories he's going to remember me as the dad who left, if he remembers me at all.

emo moment:

the suckier part... i miss her.

i have the best list of reasons to hate her guts, and a lot of the time i do... we had problems in the first year, she treated me like trash for over 5 months no matter what i did for her, she took away my step son...

but despite all of those, i find myself missing this woman.
there isn't a thing right now i wouldn't give to turn back time to be there a year ago, or in an alternative reality where we would have chosen to go to israel where i could get a job when she couldn't find a job in canada, which we where going to do if her mother wouldn't have convinced her otherwise. or... something, any escuse to bend reality into a world where the bad times in our relationship never came.

even just talking to her without that shitload of mutual hate and resentment, would be so awesome right now. i know its not an option, and with her nature its very unlikely to ever be, but god damn i wish it was.