Both Cars Broke Down Today
 

This probably should be in Nothingland BUT IT GODDAMN DOESN"T FEEL LIKE NOTHING!

:lol:

We're mostly finding it funny ...because what the hell else can you do? But really......


So, the Windstar first broke down on the way to a swim meet last thurs. Turned over but wouldn't catch after stopping at Burger King for a nutricious family dinner because no time to go home or pack anything better...... Called AAA, called a friend to come get the swimmer..... Finally the fucker started as the friend showed up, so cancelled AAA

Fine for 5 days. Same thing last night in the parking lot at the ice rink after the game. Called AAA, beest turned up to get the boy and the kit...... Tow truck called to confirm directions, just as it finally started again. So we cancelled again. beest had been messing with the throttle. Seems like fuel line/pump problems. But very intermittent.

Took it in to the shop 8am today. they are all "ooh, that sounds weid, NFI can you leave it all day?" No, I can't. Maybe Friday. 8 or 9 starts and stops later it breaks down again. In the same fucking Burger King parking lot. (My lunch plans changed, I needed food, i was worried about it not starting so i figured hell, lightning never strikes twice......i swear I haven't been to BK for at least 6 months befor this week....) :lol: No calling AAA this time. fucked about with the throttle, waited around and eventually it started. So after the rest of my errands, decided to drive it to the shop and leave it there instead of waiting for Friday. beest texted me the potential price. decided to procrastinate and went home GOOD FUCKING JOB! His car totally died on the way home/to pick up Hebe. Fucked alternator, no warning. he did actually get towed.

What a day.

Good job he's getting a ride to the tournament Friday.

I know where you can get a good deal on a nissan?

There's a customer service rep at AAA who totally hates you right now. :)

Maybe you should stop eating at BK :)

[probably] I reckon the Windstar has some crap in the fuel line, probably just water, from condensation due to the increasing cold inside the tank. Next time this happens, give the fuel filter a good shake, wait a minute, see if it starts. If it does, replace your fuel filter and/or put half a cup of metholated sprits in the tank to break up water molecules and help them pass harmlessly through the filter. [/wrong]

Well, it's an old bush mechanic thing, especially if you're using fuel from drums or tanks that have sat for a while. It has worked for me twice.

is the suxeth, monster.

Ugh.

Car trouble. right up there with plumbing trouble.

I can't give any advice but i can and do commiserate.

So far so good today :rolleyes: beest got a ride to work and the Red Rascal has started both times. But I made the kids get up and ready 15 minutes eartly in case we had to walk to the bus stop, so we just sat there in the car for extra time.....

This three busy kid schedule thing is hard enough with 2 cars.....

Yes, i also think something floating about in the fuel line. Kinda leary about adding stuff though :eek: Let's get one out of the shop first and see the damage to the credit card.... and back to playing Russian Roulette with this one.

Stoopid cars. I AM sorry about ur tow.

I'm not sorry about ur finger, though, just ur tow.

you can also check the fuel line problems much easier. just drop a match in the gas tank and it will take care of the water in the gas

Crap in the fuel line? How often will she need to do that?

Thanks folks, I'll be in the parking lot until my friend shows up. Try the BK Broiler.

You need to perform electrolysis and separate the hydrogen and oxygen in water. Both will help combustion.

I was siiting at work yesterday about an hour before leaving and decided to spend a minute and count my blessings, then on the way home the car dies, I was cruising on the highway and it just cut out, it's almost enough o make one belive in vengeful/ mischievous deities who fuck with us just for the lulz.

Apparently it's not the alternater but one of the cables attached to it,a nd the 'PC valve(?)and vacuum line, hey ho.

This is very interesting.
i) the first incidence of non starting was couple of weeks ago when it ran very low on fuel, we chalked this up to having run so low, and were also thinking that crap could have been sucked up from the bottom of the tank.
ii) waiting a bit has helped on the firt two occasions, taking ten minutes to make some calls and wait for the tow truck before giving it one last try, and voila.
iii) The station were we usually buy gas was closed for a day or two, it's less than a year old at a local supermarket, shopping there gets points for cheaper gas.

What are the chances the new station got water in it's fuel and had to be flushed out and we got a fill of that.

Hmmm....

You need a new fuel filter.

MIGHT be water, but water is denser than fuel, so would be at bottom of tank, where fuel pickup is located. But if you took in some water, it would have run like shit, but then passed through! The water doesn't KEEP giving you trouble. However, crud in the tank, also at the bottom and likely to be taken up with a very low tank would have given you trouble by restricting the fuel flow. But if you took in some crud, it would have given you trouble, then KEPT ON giving you trouble because the filter's doing its job--holding the crap out of the engine. You have a little crap dam in the line. Time for a new filter.

Trouble is, you might need two, because some systems have a prefilter (a filter, just coarser and upstream) in the freakin gas tank. That one is a bitch. You probably also have an inline filter somewhere NOT in the tank that can be replaced by you (or a shop, of course). This second kind can be had for just a few bucks. Even if this is not the "answer" you still get the benefit of a new filter, and the cost is very low. Or, you might have solved it.

I'd definitely change the fuel filter, based on what you've described. Good luck.

FORD gah sounds like fuel pump

given the start of this happened when the car was low on fuel, I agree with the clogged fuel filter assessment. happens to my home heating oil if I run out too.

so throw a 9V battery in the tank, gotcha.


Googling around water in the line seems a good possibilty and for $2 I can buy a little bottle of gas antifreeze that should help clear it out, worth a try.

personal experience
 

I hope you find a simple solution; but, just in case ...

The next time your vehicle won't start, look under the hood to see if the starter is actually turning the engine over and not just cranking away by itself (it's hard to discern by sound from inside the vehicle). A broken starter gear tooth can cause an erratic failure just like monster described. You'd be at the mercy of the random alignment of gears each time the engine is shut off, that they wouldn't align on the broken tooth, for each subsequent start up. Repeated starting attempts may eventually realign the gears; but, perhaps not always before the battery goes dead. If it's this starter problem, your other troubleshooting will be in vain.

yes, good sexobon.

A further examination of the starter should include a check of the solenoid, the part the pushes the starter motor's pinion gear into contact with the ring gear on the flywheel. It could be turning, but not engaging.

In sexobon's scenario, the failure like this would happen if there were a missing tooth on the ring gear, not the pinion gear. THAT is big f*ckin trouble, you really don't want that. But in my experience, those gears are pretty tough, more likely the solenoid isn't thrusting the pinion forward.

Another no start situation/sound is when you turn the key and you get clickclickclickclickclick... this is the starter failing. bad wire, weak battery, weak solenoid, actually stuck starter motor (rap sharply with hammer/rock while cursing to solve/diagnose--don't ask).

Ok, don't want to get off topic too far. Good luck.

The next time it happens, take a hose off the intake manifold and shoot some carburetor cleaner inside it. Try to start it and if it starts right up, you have a fuel problem. If it doesn't, take off a plug wire and stick an old spark plug on it. Lay it on something metal so you have a ground and crank it. There should be a nice, bright blue spark. If not, you have an ignition problem. Or its a fuel filter I am not a mechanic but have played one when necessary... ;)

It might be the flux capacitor. Posssssssibly the framitization module....

Those damn Muffler bearing go out All the time !!! ;)

No failure today :) And not taking it to the shop tomorrow. One car repair is enough for one week. If it fails to start while beest's out of town, I'm leaving the git where it lies and walking home for the Focus. so there.

Yeah, this sounds a lot like crap in the fuel line.

I've heard that water cannot pass through a fuel filter and so will cause a blockage or partial blockage, which produces the symptoms described here. It tends to form droplets inside the fuel filter and the fuel just can't get through. The metho breaks the droplets up and they pass through the engine more or less harmlessly.

Well, that works down here, supposedly (I've never done the metho, but I've fixed cars once by giving the filter a good hard shake and once by replacing the filter). Mind you, our cars run on petrol, not gasoline, and it swirls into the tank clockwise, so lord knows what happens up where you are. :D

So now Beest just has to find the nearest metho lab.

Today it failed to start the first time twice -but neither was very convincing ...more of an oh mom do i really have to get up.... so I hit the gas hard as I turned the key on the second go and it was fine. We're going to sit this one out -and beest put Heet in the fuel tonight. Before pissing off to the UP and leaving me with both dodgy cars.... ;)

Hi there just a simple reminders....Stay cool and be nice to other people.

Thank you laya2. We can always use simple reminders like that.

Welcome to the Cellar and enjoy your stay.

What are you implying by that remark?

The Car Guys often ask this question. And the answer is too often, "Yes". Is the check engine light on?

No,

this stuff was 2 bottles for $4
http://www.goldeagle.com/UserFiles/i...andingPage.jpg

so I chucked one in , it's basically Isopropyl (Rubbing) alcohol I think.
I believe the water dissolves in the IPA which can the run through and burn off. So if it's in the filter it should pick it up and as we work through the tank.

Plugs, wires, battery and alternator are new.

Working the throttle seems to fix it. likes it's stuck.
In modern vehicles is there a separate line for the choke, or is it all done with one throttle.

Alcohol and Gasoline don't mix.

Actually, they do mix, but they taste terrible.

TFIBHAW,TTS

"Check Engine!" is like "we need to talk" and "if you don't know why I'm mad, then I'm certainly not going to tell you" all rolled into one.

and this:

You need to flip that video.

But then the Audi logo would be backwards

A choke was how to throw massive amounts of gasoline into an engine that would otherwise not start. A 1930 technology called fuel injection made that and so many other functions all obsolete.

Your injection measures the entering air. Views other parameters. Then spits in the best amount of gasoline required. In a previous discussion (maybe April 2010) with Cloud, one simple control system was perverted so that idle would fail intermittently. Your subjective summary describes failure in the same system. But you have no reason to believe your system failure is a same part.

Problems reported by the check engine light are always easy to find and fix. Your's is apparently more complex because even the check engine diagnostics do not see it.

Engine performs differently when the throttle is fully open verses when closed. Different parameters and sensors cause different amounts of fuel to be spit into the engine. Apparently your intermittent involves sensors that are significant at idle and not significant when the throttle is more open. Without check engine codes, the number of suspects increases drastically.

Sometimes a service bulletin will define this failure. A previous vehicle had the same problems that the check engine diagnostic did not see. Only better mechanics read and learn from these. Some libraries also provide access to them (online) for all manufacturers.

Possible is a significant parameter stored in the computer. And therefore would be identified by a better mechanic or a smarter computer diagnostic. Some dealers may temporarily install a computer to your diagnostic port so that relevant parameters can be collected when the car will not start. Then a human can see what the check engine diagnostic did not.

Information posted that provided useful replies is that it starts when the throttle is not in idle. Expand on that concept to define specifically what is done to make the engine start. Turn a subjective post into something more quantitative. Playing around with the throttle says almost nothing. Details of what is 'played with' will go a long way to isolating an intermittent to a computer subsystem or sensor.

Also relevant are other details such as the angle of the car everytime it does not start? Pointed up hill, downhill, tilted left of right, etc. Engine overnight cold. Or just partially cool? Attitude of the neighbor's cat? How far to the nearest prankster's house?

Biggest reason for no solution is insufficient information and too much information that is only subjective.

Water in gasoline was way down the list among the least likely suspects along with that cat.

So the cat is causing the problem? Darn hair gets everywhere.

So, I know you've all been waiting with baited breath..

After a fill of gas I out in the HEET iso plus, I beleive it still complained about starting a couple of times, but after a few days and running through less than half a tank of gas the problem disappeared.
Was it the new gas, did the HEET clear some water, did the injector cleaner additives shift some other gunk? It's not a controlled experiment so who knows, my money is on the water, Zengum get's a cold one.

When I started driving and learned car maintanence cars has a choke lever ot knob to pull out when the engine was cold and push in again when it warmed up. I was told this open a seperate channel to deliver more fuel directly to the pistons.
A quick google says this is not how the choke works in a car, but may be in some motorcylce engines, so I guess I have been misinformed all these years.:rolleyes:

Congratulations Beest!

regarding a choke. It works like it sounds. Take your hands a wrap them around your throat. Squeeze. Feel the choke? Yeah. Same thing in a car (motorcycle, generator, lawnmower, whatever). When the engine is cold, it is easier to burn a rich-er mixture of fuel and air. So, the "choke" operates a linkage/valve/butterfly that *reduces* the amount of air that's going into the engine without changing the throttle position. The throttle controls the fuel (generally speaking), so by reducing the relative amount of air the engine's getting, the mixture has more fuel per air and is therefore richer and therefore ignites more easily.

As the engine warms up, this rich mixture makes the engine run poorly, so the choke is "turned off" as it were. The regular mixture of fuel and air is now restored, and the engine's at normal operating temperature and it runs normally.

eta:
I learned via a google search that adding more gas via a separate line or any other method is still called "choke". The same purpose is achieved, a richer mixture for cold operation.

Choke = cut off air
Less air = higher gas to air ratio
Higher ration = more gas

That used to make sense to me

the choke reduces the air flow so more fuel get used

Damn you beest, I canme to post a similar -but better- update. It passed the ultimate test today -I went to that Burger King for lunch, parked in the same spot, and it restarted no problem. :lol: