The right way to stop a bully
 

I doubt that little prick will be bullying anyone for a long time. I also don't think anyone is going to pick on the big kid again. Unfortunately he got suspended from school, but hopefully he'll wear that as a badge of honor.

And the fanboy music remix.

This has been all over the news here. It's a private school in Sydney. I've been interested in the reactions of the teenagers I know. Most of them seem pretty impressed with the big guy.

I hope it's a lesson to bullies.

It is unfortunate the skinny prick's leg is broken but maybe just maybe he'll think twice before picking on someone else. The big kid did the right thing.

Both of them should have been suspended ,
Little prick got a broke leg ??
GOOD he deserved it !!
Ive been in the big guys place a few times ,
generally all it takes is 1 GOOD show of force ,
Got sent Home ,
Next day a Meeting with My Mom and the Principle ,
With My Mom "YELLING So He cant DEFEND HIS SELF ???!!!
Im going to Press charges !!!"

It was a Bluff ,
But the small packs of smaller kids Learned to leave me ALONE !

Unfortunately, a lot of time it's the big kid picking on the little kid. Not as easy to fight back, then.

I don't see that so much ...now or then. I see/saw fat kids being picked on. And they don't usually fight back -for a plethora of reasons. It's the little smart guys who feel they have something to prove. I eventually "karate-kicked" my bully in the stomach and bruised her badly. I avoided suspension because I had a broken arm at the time and pointed out that there's no way someone my size with an arm in a plaster cast and sling could have done that. Sometimes being flexible and a fat, bullied nerd works in your favor ;)

In my experience, it's usually the weedy little kids that do the bullying. Small man syndrome or whatever you want to call it, but they just seem like they're over compensating for their lack of height.

Of course, there are some big boys that like to do a bit of bullying too, and their come-uppance usually doesn't happen till the other kids catch up.

It wont happen over night, but it will happen.

I think little Napoleon syndrome says "I'll kick your ass!" as he attempts to stand up on his obliterated leg.

Serves him right. Skinny lil' punk. The smallest runts can be the boldest.

The big kid should have pulled out his piece and shot the little fucker in the head.

:lol:

Seriously. Little short-tempered short-guy-syndrome fuck!

I love how the big kid did what he had to do and just walked away. I abhor violence, but you know, it only takes the one "quit fucking with me" moment.

Nothing will shut up a bully faster than a good, old fashioned ass-stomping.

Or a gun. Don't forget a gun.

Oh, well the gun was a given...

I am very uncomfortable watching a child have his leg broken.
If I hadn't known that fact I might not be so squeamish.

I think children should be taught that brute force is not an appropriate response
When they are pushed beyond endurance it is certainly understandable, but the least they can do is make sure the response is appropriate.

There have been many international situations where a pile-driver has been used to crack a nut. We should be teaching children that this is not something to be celebrated. You don't break the leg of a yappy dog - that's jusy cruel. Why have a lesser value for a human?

I think that brute force was entirely appropriate.

Sorry I am with Sundae on this one. I totally understand the kid's response. I sympathis entirely. I've been in a similar situation to some earlier posters: having been bullied relentlessly by a pack of girls,led by one in particular (who'd fucking followed me from primary/junior school!) I kicked the crap out of her in the middle of our fourth form art class. Made her cry, snapped her necklace, humiliated her in front of her friends. I'll be honest. It felt good. really good.

But I still should not have done it. I completely lost control. Absolute blind rage. It worked. I wasn't bullied again in school, ever, by anyone. Total, uncontrolled rage as a means to achieve what I wanted ? Not a good lesson to learn.

Now I am not saying that the kid in the video was in an uncontrolled rage. Clearly he wasn't. But he does need to understand the potential for his strength to harm someone else.

What I find really disturbing about this thread is the righteous anger, or even glee over what is essentially a child, most likely a troubled child, being harmed. Harmed because of his own actions maybe. Brought it on himself, certainly. A child, being harmed by another child.

The 14 year old kid buried (not so very) deep in my mind does a double-take. Part of me is cheering the worm that turned. But part of me is wondering wtf is going on in the little lad's mind. And all of me winces at the very thought that I am watching his bone break.

What if that was your kid? It isn't just the kids of bad parents and broken homes who do that shit you know? Good kids, from loving families can go off the rails. Can start bullying others. Can feel powerless for whatever reason and start acting out. How the fuck would you feel if we were sitting here pronouncing awesome justice as your child rolls in pain?

The answer: I don't tolerate bullshit from my children. When they are harmed as a result of their own actions I am not sympathetic. It is more important to me that they learn how to behave properly than for them to "feel good" all the time and never experience anything unpleasant that might force them to, you know, GROW as individuals.

So how would I feel if the little shit was my child? After seeing that behavior, there would be a serious day of reckoning. I will take the child to get his leg looked at by a doctor, but I will be goddamned if there is one ounce of visible sympathy he will be able to detect in my terrible visage.

Feel good?

Broken leg. That's a hell of a punishment for acting up.

Either way. I still find the tenor of this discussion frankly disturbing.

We are grown ups. Crowing about a schoolboy fight where a child's leg gets broken.

It is not about the age of individuals. Project into the future, that little shit is a guy you get into a road rage incident with. If he causes his own car to wreck, or ends up getting pulled over by the police, yes, we would drive a away laughing. "Serves him right" knows no age limits.

If my kid acted that way towards his peers, I'd break his leg myself (or at least tan his hide a fair bit). There is no way I'd put up with that sort of behaviour from any of my kids, and I'm with Flint on this. There'd be no sympathy from me if they happened to get their comuppence.

You might say this is just theoretical, but it's not. My boys have all taken their knocks over things they shouldn't have done and they've had to suck it up with nothing more than concern over the immediate injury from me and a big fat, "I hope you've learned your lesson since my warnings weren't enough for you".

They hold their own, but they're not bullies and that's all I expect from them. I wouldn't condone them breaking another child's leg, but I certainly wouldn't censure them if I knew they'd been the victim of bullying. Children should feel that it's ok to stand up for themselves, and ultimately, we all know that telling someone in authority that you're being bullied rarely, if ever has a positive outcome.

eta: When Aden and Mav moved school once, the smart mouth little bully taunted them on their way home for weeks calling them 'nigger' because of their dark skin. They and I made complaints to the school about it but it continued until Aden snotted the kid, after which the potty mouth magically closed.

It isn't the fact that he broke the kid's leg I have a most trouble with. It's the fact it's on youtube, and we're watching it and finding some kind of entertainment in it, taking pleasure in seeing this justice meted out.

There were times, as a child that I caused situations in which I got hurt/injured. Had my mum responded with I told you so, or serves you right, I'd have been devastated. Unless you're a complete moron, some part of you will know that you did that to yourself and take the lesson anyway. Maybe when the dust had settled it might have come up. But the idea that I could come to physical harm and my parent respond with any kind of a lack of sympathy just does not compute for me.

I am stepping out of this thread now before I end up really pissing someone off.

From and Australian perspective - and I'm sure the other aussies will correct me if I've got it wrong - the reason this thing has gone viral is because bullying is a big issue at schools, and it seems to me that the PC way of dealing with the situation is simply ineffective. If a bully knows that the worst thing to happen is suspension or expulsion, then often they don't care. And even more wrongly, the victim is often told to just ignore it. Yes a lot of bullying issues can be traced back to previous trauma of some kind but not all, and even if they are, it doesn't give one kid the right to villify another just because they feel like it.

eta: I don't know if I'd call it 'crowing' over the kid getting what's been coming to him, but certainly people have a right to express how they feel about it. Personally, I feel sorry his leg is broken, but I don't feel sorry that he was taken down a peg. We all have to learn that there's always going to be someone stronger or faster or smarter or whatever in life. Some just need the lesson in black and white.

Maybe beside the point but lookout is the only reference I've found to a broken leg. I would be surprised if it was more than a bruised ankle. He gets up and limps around on it. Either he's part pit bull or he just got a smacked leg/ankle.

And Dana, you probably saved that girl a lifetime of being an asshole. Yeah, 2 minutes in the penalty box for a hormonal rollercoaster teen who lost control of her emotions once. How can you live with yourself? Jeez, I hope you can learn to forgive your self for being normal. As Griff said, be genlte with yourself, the world won't be. (or summat, innit?)

Oh I am not beating myself up (pardon the pun) over it. Vicky and I ended up being quite good friends afterwards.

Which is how I know what was making her such a bitch. The fact is our school was failing in their duty to safeguard me (we are talking very serious bullying), but they had also abysmally failed to pick up on the fact that Vicky was in complete crisis and was in greater need of safeguarding than I was.

I don't agree with Dana or Sundae here, kids on the whole are vicious little pack animals and it's all very well puting adult analogous to how kids should act,but we all know kids don't think like adults.
They cannot link actions with consequences, I have two Daughters both now grown up but the hassle my wife and I had with other girls picking on them was horrendous.
The school had a policy to deal with bullying but it was useless.
I was only bullied once at school and I found a swift kick in the nuts of anyone that tried usually concentrated their minds, there's an old Scottish saying which is right for the little guy that started the shit
Hell mind him.

Violence is never the answer, unless the question is "what is never the answer?" :haha:

Seriously, I am with Dana and Sundae on this. I don't blame the kid for his response either, but he did have other choices. They might not have worked as immediately, but one punch can kill a person/kid. What if he had accidentally knocked the kids head against that corner rather than just his leg? The kid needs to learn that there can be very very serious consequences for letting his temper loose, even if the other party "deserves it."

Precisely my point. We are adults watching this. Why are we cheering on at the sidelines of a schoolyard fight? And seemingly revelling in a child getting his comeuppance?

MTP, I agree about the other options. I would never in a gazillion years suggest that I deserved to be bullied at school. Kids are cruel 'pack animals' as be-bop suggests, and it takes very little to bring you to a bully's attention, and that attention can be very focussed sometimes for years.

But I know, looking back, that I was not very socially adept around other kids. Early, smalller scale teasing in infant school had stunted what was initially quite normal socialisation, and been exacerbated by extended periods of absence. I didn't have the necessary tools and social skills at my disposal to bridge the distance.

There are other options when dealing with bullies. Some effective, some less so. Unfortunately they are not easily taught. But to sugget that violence is the 'right way' to deal with bullying is a dangerous lesson to learn and to teach. Soimetimes a violent response resolves the situation. Sometimes it simply feeds into a cycle. Sometimes it really does seem like the only rational response, and who knows, maybe that means in those cases it is. But with violent response always comes the potential for serious harm. As Moar said, what if the bully had been pushed and cracked his skull on the corner?

I remember reading reports of a guy, quite recently, who' punched another man for some inconsequential slight, causing to have a heart attack and die. He's now serving serious prison time, and a man is dead, because of a single punch.

Kids are a little animal in their instinctiveness, in their lack of understanding of consequence, the part of their brain that deals wiith that kind of future pacing, association and impulse control isn't fully developed until very late in the teens. But as adults we understand the potential consequences of violence.

but Dana, did you go on to be a person who used uncontrolled violence to resolve every problem? Did you learn that lesson from your experience? No.

Note so far the demographics of the naysayers. Young, childless, women. No disrespect intended, but maybe it's the parenting switch that turns this one on, not just our experiences with bullies aand psychology classes? I'm generally a "violence is not the answer" type person. I'm anti death penalty. But sometimes violence is the answer. If he'd've hit the kid with the camera, then I would agree with you. But he didn't, he just stopped the kid that was hitting him. Then he left. He didn't kick him into a gelatinous pulp. He defended himself and then walked away. And I bet that kid will never punch him or another kid in the face again. And I don't believe the big kid will go around smashing kids to the ground to get everything he wants. I could be wrong on that. But I'll bet not.

Oh please. Because I am not a parent? It was my parent who taught me this attitude. On a personal level I can see being delighted that your child has hit back and stopped the bullying. But I know for a certainty that my Mum would find that video unpleasant if she heard that the lad had been hurt. And she is a parent.

It really pisses me off when people play that card. In a discussion on how to deal with the terrible twos, or teenaged tantrums? Sure, I know nothing. But whether or not violence is the riight response in any given situation is a different matter altogether. And the idea that being a parent is in itself a reason to view that clip differently just doesn't gel with what i know of friends and family who are parents.

Not every parent seeing that clip would share your view. And not every non-parent would share mine. Just because that's how it happens to break down in a conversation between a dozen people, doesn't mean any such thing. If it's the parenting that switches this on, then surely everyone not a 'nay sayer' must be a parent right?

Jesus H Fucking Christ. How dare you just lump us all together as the childless ones and therefore not privy to the great fucking transformation and therefore what? Wrong? Ignorant? Just don't get it because we haven't been 'switched on' yet?

Fuck. Now I really am insulted.

Dana, I don't want you to leave the thread. I appreciate what you are saying.

But I agree with monster. It may be one of the most trite-sounding clichés, but t here is no equivlent experience that can impart this knowledge. It's not a great conspiracy, but simply a logical condition.
And this "devastation" would really, really cause you to PAY THE FUCK ATTENTION for once. This is called a "teachable moment" and as a parent you may only get ONE SHOT at having your child PAY ATTENTION to what you are saying. You don't squander it. Why is this necessary? Because this is not true. As you have said in this very thread, the part of a child's brain that links actions to consequences is not fully physically developed until much later in life.
Nope, you'd be too late.

The child doesn't remember to attach ANY importance to what you are saying after you've soothed away the reality of the situation. Here is the reality of being a parent: if you care more about fuzzy wuzzy emotions than you do the child learning how to survive and act intelligently, then you are doing them a disservice. As a parent, you know that children do not have the experience to put "two and two together" in some situations, so it is YOUR JOB to make these connections for them.

NOT to be their "best friend" and NOT to make them "feel good" about everything. If you act stupidly, you SHOULD feel bad. As adults, we don't get a Santa Clause to "fix" things for us, so as a child, we shouldn't be taught that.

Then maybe you missed learning a lesson along the way, Dana.

It was just a thought/comment/observation, not a diagnosis. Look back, see if it's right before you go off on one. Maybe you protest a little too much here. I would not be ecstatic if that was my kid. But I wouldn't punish him. I'm not "lumping you all together". I'm noting that I disagree with people I generally agree with, and agreeing with those I often don't, and wondering why. It's a logic thing. It may have nothing to do with parenting at all. get a grip and stop smoking that stuff, it's imparing your faculties.

Yeah. A lot of theoretical ideas fly out the window when you actually have a child and see first hand how helpless and dependent on you they are for everything.

At least until they are old enough to go to fridge and get you another beer. <-- not even funny, but I had to put that in anyway.

Is very funny to me :D

This is what I was trying to say, put more concisely.

"Knowing people who have kids" or whatever means a big, fat nothing. Live with the reality of having another human being's life in your hands, LITERALLY, day in day out, 24/7 for years and years on end. It's a little different than having a nephew or raising a fucking chihuahua.

If you don't like to hear this then you are shutting your ears to a logical, demonstrable reality.



BTW, wasn't it YOU that asked:
I guess you didn't like the answer? Well next time don't try to "play that card" as you put it.

dumbass bully's mom wants an apology. The only apology she should get is as follows, "I am sorry you didn't teach your little ratfuck not to abuse other people. Barring that I am sorry you didn't teach him to at least wonder if the person he chooses to pick on can pummel him into oblivion."

Also, the rat didn't receive a broken leg, the site I saw this on had that incorrect. I now return you to your previous moral dilemma.

For me it starts and ends with a little douchebag biting off more than he can chew. He chose to step up and abuse another human being. It just so happens that other human was bigger, stronger, and tired of being fucked with. Happy ending in my opinion.

This.

Hacker group takes down school web site of bullied Australian kid
 

http://nbcoutofbounds.files.wordpres...pg?w=500&h=346


Link


The little shit got what he deserved. How far would he have gone, had Casey not finally defended himself? What if it escalated till Casey got "really hurt"?
Keep poking a dog with a stick and eventually you'll get bit. Good for Casey. Hopefully good for the bully as well. Maybe he learned his lesson - FINALLY.

His mother apparently has not ...

OH and by the way ...

Read more:

The bully doesn't have a chance in life. He does whatever he wants and his mommy defends him. We've all seen it. "Not MY boy, he's a perfect little angel." Exactly how he came to be what was depicted in the video. Wild children running around, you see them. I look at my nieces and remember my nephews when they were kids. Gee, I don't see them acting like assholes.

Casey needs to kick the shit out of mom, too. ;)

It's sad, all around.

No, they're wrong. I'm an old, married father, and I agree that conflicts should be resolved without violence. I am not a barbarian.

I feel sorry for both these kids, with their full names and videos of them splashed up on the internet for the whole world to see forever. They are not celebrities. They deserve to be left alone. They are just kids.

These two will both be in their fifties, and a vanity Google search will still bring up this incident as a top hit. This incident will follow them both for the rest of their lives. Not fair.

Yeah, things sure are different. When Eddie Haskell picked on someone, it might get back to his parents, or even Ward...but it didn't become national news.

I don't consider myself violent either, Spexx. But I do know that kid wouldn't have been punching on me even that long. I can't fathom just taking it, though that's all godlike and stuff. There have been very few times I was pushed into the proverbial corner enough to defend myself, and I always felt bad after, but I'll be damned if someone gets to just pummel the fuck out of me for fun.

http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/1...85_75SEg-L.jpg


a penny arcade comic.

On an emotional level, it's satisfying to see the victim turn the tables. It's not so hard to see the metaphor - the big kid represents the huge American middle class, and the little one is the upper class just jab, jab, jabbing the middle class in the face, demanding that the middle class take on more tax burden, while laying them off and cutting their salaries and benefits. Then the middle class rises up and body slams the upper class. Yeah, that feels good.

But mature adults don't condone that behavior.

What I can't condone is a school that ignores bullying and then punishes the victim for fighting back.

Violence should be the last alternative. And I bet it was in this case.

If you want this kid to learn to handle problems without violence, you have to provide an environment in which that can occur.

He 'got what he deserved'.
He 'should have shot him'.

Maybe a happy medium would have been a knife in the lower abdomen?

There are some people with a serious lack of understanding of bulling here. Do you really teach that stuff to your own children?

These actions rarely stop bullys, indeed provoking a reaction is generally what they're after, they love it, it pretty much ensures you'll get it next time too - not the reverse.

The big guy's reaction was understandable and he shouldn't be punished but the smaller kid definitely should and whoever was holding the camera should get the same. If it was up to me everyone who stood by and did nothing when the smaller kid would get it too.

No. Mature adults who live in a mythical land where calmly discussing our differences inevitably leads to conflict resolution and a healthy round of hugs don't condone that behavior.

The rest of us live in the real world where sometimes use of necessary and, in fact, desirable. I would much rather the little bully get jacked at this stage in his life and hopefully learn a lesson (doubtful with an apology seeking mother) rather than wait until he is older and the stakes and pain are much higher.

Of course you say you would, because you're a tough guy wanna be. When you could have shot the guy in the coffee shop, you didn't. You kicked him like a little girl. Poser.

Yep, you got me nailed down. Damn, I guess I'll just sit here and diddle my wanna be self.

Of course, the example you just used is a perfect example of how things should go, imo. I used the appropriate level of force to stop the guy and then I stopped. I didn't skulltap him to show how awesome I am. Threat eliminated, problem solved. Of course, I didn't stow my weapon and give him a hug so I was prepared if the dumbass wanted to escalate the violence further.

Seems to me this kid did the same thing. He responded to provocation with an appropriate level of force, watched to make sure the threat was eliminated, then walked away.

How do you think this should have gone and what would you expect the outcome to be?

Be specific.

You don't need to be overly specific. At this stage in the game we don't need the social security numbers for each of the government appointees you would like named to the commission to settle the differences between the boys.

I tire of this.

That's usually what happens when you wade in with your smartass pseudointellectual quips and then someone asks what you would rather have happened. Bye bye.

I wasn't suggesting that I as an auntie, looking on have an insight into parenting. I was saying that that the parents I am closest to and know best (my mother, my brother and my SiL) would not find that video entertaining, or even salutary. They are parents and they would not share your view.

That's all I was saying. This isn't about parents having one view and non-parents having another view.

And I had plenty of lessons growing up. My mother was a wonderfulparent, and would absolutely have helped me draw lessons from those occasions. But she wouldn't do it in a way that lacked sympathy.

I'm not even suggesting that my parents didn't encourage me to fight back against bullies. On one occasion my Mum, at her wits end with me keep returning home from playing outside, in tears from being bullied by another kid (bizarrely also called Vicky) actually sent me out once to have a go back.

It isn't the fact that the kid fought back I have the biggest problem with. It's the fact it is plastered all over the internet where adults are taking pleasure in seeing it. It feels fundamentally wrong, to me, for us as adults to take any kind of satisfaction in a child getting hurt, no matter how much they brought it on themselves, and no matter what gutlevel joy we might have at the sight of a bullied kid striking back.

Cite, or go punch someone, tough-guy-wanna-be.

The fat kid did the right thing and more kids should do it. Someone needs to buy him an ice cream and give him a pat on the back.

Would you say the same thing had his piledrive move broken the other kid's neck?

Dana, to clarify, the only thing you've said that I have taken exception to was, to paraphrase "How would you feel if [the bully] was YOUR kid?"

My point, as regards this, is that as a parent your job is not to be sympathetic, but to be an arbiter of values and principles that your child needs to internalize in order to be an effective adult. I would ask you whether you think any important lesson you've ever learned in your life was "easy" or came at absolutely no cost? I would say, of course not. Life is hard. Hard lessons are what stick.

Ok, Flint. That's fair enough. I just don't see a need to have no sympathy along side the message is all. Maybe that's just a stylistic difference, I don't know. I also disagree that a parent shouldn't or can't also be the child's friend

My mother is and pretty much always has been my friend. There was no doubt in my mind as a kid that she was also In Charge. She was able to do The Look. That was enough most of the time. But honestly, if I really crossed a line and did something horrible, parental anger, from either mum or dad wasn't half so upsetting and impactful as disappointment. We weren't a discipline heavy household. Things were generally talked through, not dealt with in anger. Smacking just was not something we did. Same goes for my Brother's family. 'Punishment' simply doesn't happen. Never really has. That's just not the model my brother and his wiife work on. Their girls are incredibly well-adjusted. They are also good friends.

Not saying that way is right. Just saying that the punishment/enforced lesson model isn't the only way. And parental authority is not necessarily in conflict with friendship.