Can someone explain to me the difference between American right and left?
 

Both looks the same to your friend Uday.

I asked one friend from the engineering department who is Tea Party what the difference is, and he say that "liberals are all socialists and hate America".

I have asked a few friends in math classes what is the difference, they say "conservatives are all bigots and hate the constitution".

Both answers are obvious bias, so I looked for myself, found very interesting things.

Both parties support torture.

Both parties support violence against people who are different. Ruby Ridge is from Bush the elder, the Waco massacre is from Clinton, yes?

Both parties are keeping Guantanamo Bay open.

Both parties are giving corporations whatever they like. Even "Obamacare" is for giving insurance companies money.

There are more examples, but I think my point is clear, no? So could someone please explain this difference? Because everywhere I go, left and right is hating each other, and this makes no sense, because they look the same.

So you did some research and only found similarities between Republican and Democrats? Either you are off the charts on the good ol' political spectrum (libertarian or very left-winged?) or you are attempting to make a very flawed, and IMO worthless, point.

Unless you are trying to say that Republican and Democrats should all hold hands and get along. Then I would think you were completely batshit insane. :D

I think they already do.

Eh....

As I say, I am having trouble with this. Is why I asked for someone to explain.

No trouble. I do have at least some grasp on the similarities and differences between the two parties.

I just don't feel like playing games right now.

Okay, I don't feel like telling you about my country, too.

Thank you for all the help.

All parties have their own self-interest at heart. The two dominant parties have a vested interest in perpetuating the status quo. In large part, at their origins they also set the status quo. Kind of a perpetual cycle of mediocrity driven by money, power and prestige.

I'm not saying that's bad. It is reality. A reality that can't last indefinitely.

Parties are made up of people with significant differences.

But when it comes to policy, or how to get there, the sides end up remarkably equal. Some of this is due to the usual pressures of politics. A lot of it is unseen by the general public.

For example,

The Republican party is highly anti-abortion and receives a great number of votes from anti-abortion voters. But when the Republicans were in charge of the House, Senate, and Presidency, the only thing they did about it was to ban "partial birth" abortion, a rare occurrence which affects less than a thousand abortions per year.

Thus, an enormous amount of fighting and arguing, very little change.

The reasons for this are subtle, and not well-understood. One reason is that if abortion were widely made illegal, the slight majority which is not in favor of that policy would more likely vote Democratic. But also, the Republican "hard-liners" who vote solely on the basis of abortion, would stop caring about politics and stop giving money to campaigns.

Continued in next post.

Sound like the army at home.

One lies through the left side of their mouth and the other through the right.

Like this?

http://scottystarnes.files.wordpress...pg?w=337&h=361

We have the same politicians, I am thinking.

Were you talking about the population or politicians? Those answers are completely different. I apologize for being jumpy, I've unfortunately been around too many wannabe radicals lately...

If you look at the American population then there are very large differences between Democrats and Republicans. They have completely different political views because they each, to some extent, have different ideas of what the world should be.

If you look at American politicians, they have to deal with many interest groups and tend to have "experts" telling them what is the best solution. They also have to differentiate between what is best rhetoric and what is best policy and keep up the juggling act. The best politicians, policy wise, are not the politicians that know everything, but the ones that can put the best people around them. And even though an administration can change every four or eight years, the people in Washington tend to more or less stay the same. So whether the politicians are Republicans or Democrats they tend to be around and influenced by the same people.

That is why there are many similarities in, lets say foreign policy, between Bush and Obama even though their political rhetoric is completely different. But do note that even though you can find a vast amount of similarities, there are distinct differences. There isn't a "good" party versus an "evil" party (even though many Americans see it that way), if that is what you were getting at with your first post, but just two different variations of the more or less same perspective of reality.

To your examples,

Both parties support the light torture of a small number of individuals who are threats to the USA. In general, voters and therefore both parties are against any sort of widespread torture, and the type of torture that they do support is a rather limited subset.

Yes; and both events are horrible, but both also represent a general failure of Federal law enforcement more than an enforced policy. Sometimes law enforcement is difficult -- and perfect law enforcement is impossible. We should work to be better than these cases, and I think the Federals have learned from them and have not repeated the problems that led to these events. In a country of 300 million people, we are not surprised that mistakes are made even though we are often appalled when they happen.

They certainly are. No mistakes here.

But all this also doesn't answer the original question, because we are talking about Democrats and Republicans which are not really the same schools of thought as lefties and righties.

damn straight. there is no such thing. not where i live at least. this country will be socialistic one day. as dr. froth put it here

politicians are all the same all over the world. "what can i do to grease my own bank account?"

Here is my completely cynical take. At the national level, the differences between the two parties don't amount to a hill of beans. The differences in rhetoric are just so much window dressing. The two major parties are engaged in a scramble for power ie money. There's plenty of money floating around the halls of Congress from special interests and special sweetheart deals for your pals, etc.,etc. Halliburten is only one of the more obvious examples of this.

In my latest round of e-mails to Congress (sent to both Republican and Democratic representatives), I have discovered that most of them don't even deign to send form letters to their constituents anymore.

The State level is slightly better, but not by much.

The Right finds you.

You have to find the Left.

Here, this should help.... :D

http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/200...t-infographic/

Facing North, the American Left is to the West and the American Right is to the East.

Great minds, my friend, great minds.

My left hand makes an "L" when I look at the back of it with the thumb outstretched. Being direction dyslexic, it's the only way I can tell the difference.

But the Left Coast and the East Coast are filled with Lefties! And the middle is conservative Righties... ?

Well, there was Schwarzenegger...

The left wants to help you and doesn't; the right wants to screw you and does. :D

I guess that makes the right more honorable. lol!

Torture is torture. You do it for a good reason, soon you do it for a bad reason. It is evil, and evil acts are not justified by results. "The ends do not justify the means".

Once you throw away your principles once, it get easier and easier to do it. In this case, amendment VIII, which make no exception for national security.

It's a slippery slope!

So they have you arguing the same nonsense that justified the American defeat in Vietnam. The world is right wing extremists, left wing extremists, and the intelligent people - the moderates. To keep people confused, extremists use the other extreme to promote fear. Promote hate to make this world difficult for moderates.

A perfect example is Sharon of Israel. A man with a history of intentionally creating massacres and other violence for the greater glory is right wing Israelis. His great fear was the Oslo Accords. To subvert peace, an extremist must make being a moderate impossible. That means using hate. So he and 100+ 'close friends' tromped on Temple Mount to incite extremists. Sharon used hate so that moderate Palestinians and Jews would be forced into the ranks of extremism. He needed and successfully inspired Intifada Two.

Then extremists needed Rabin assassinated. And succeeded. Like Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity and some extremists here, Sharon and Likud all but called for the murder of Rabin. Then could blame it on others. Sarah Palin, et al encouraged an assassination of Congressman Gabriel Giffords and others.

Extremists fear those who learn the conflict is extremist verses moderate. Not right verses left.

What did George Jr do to promote hate? He all but protected bin Laden. Keeping the boogey man alive was important for a "them verses us" attitude so necessary to keep the less informed brainwashed.

Hitler made the same point in his book. Disparage the bourgeois and intellegencia. Then those easiest to manipulate could be recruited into his extremist party. Hate is essential to make life difficult for moderates. Hate of Jews and other ‘inferior’ people further inspired his wacko extremists. . Drives all from the ranks of educated, informed, and tolerant moderates.

Every long time Cellar dweller can tell you in detail how adamant I was about Saddam's WMDs. Moderates will also remind you how correct I also was. Which is why extremists here have even tried to cause me harm (UT censored the attempt). Yes intentionally tried to cause me harm because emotion (not logic) drives extremism. Entertaining feelings rather than thinking logically is the nature of extremism. Even promoting hate of Muslims who would build a mosque in Lower Manhattan. More fodder to encourage extremist hate.

Extremists avidly created death of 4,500 American soldiers for no purpose. Even had Ted Koppel censored for doing a Nightline episode that would honor Americans killed in Mission Accomplished. That honesty considered a threat to the extremist agenda. Extremists will not admit that the president named that war “Mission Accomplished”. Extremists even refused to answer an obvious question (for political reasons). “When do we go after bin Laden?” bin Laden remains alive because extremists needed him to be alive. Today we are all paying for an economic disaster created by Mission Accomplished and other extremist lies.

It is not about left and right. It is about those driven by emotion into the ranks of hate verses others who know by first becoming educated - moderates. A patriot does not run about wrapping himself in a flag. That is for the emotional. Education creates a patriot. Someone who can think rather than be manipulated.

Being an extremist is easy. Hitler simply told his extremists how to think. So they ‘accidentally’ murdered some 8 million Jews – and called that good.

tw you amaze me. i like some of the points you make here. most of them actually. but i have to ask this because i;m curious...

because i am admittingly ignorant to this could you supply a link to said story?

i am not going against you mind you, i would just like clarification.

who? i'll defend you and i don't care who from! we may disagree sometimes but you do have my respect. and respect is enough in my book sir.

You referring to me again? You are a LIAR.

I'm not sure exactly what you are posting. But an extremist who intentionally posted to hurt me has again called me a liar. He denies that UT had to censor his post? Emotion is essential to extremism.

Extremists intentionally perverted facts to first try to blame Saddam for 11 September. To call Saddam an ally of bin Laden. Later, they all but invented myths about Saddam's WMDs. Screw facts. They were searching for hate to promote their political agenda - a unilateral and unjustified attack on Iraq (and other axis of evil).

I make no apologizes for identifying these extremist characteristics - especially hate.

Did Sarah Palin call for the assassination of Gifford, et al? Others here can cite their posts that demonstrate how hate was promoted. Likud also needed the assassination of Rabin. Promoted the same hate. So many Jews ignored by assuming no Jew would murder another Jew. Wrong. Extremist hate even inspired Timothy McVey to kill so many in Oklahoma City. Or Black September at the Munich Olympics.

Sometimes hate backfires. An attack on Giffords resulted in 3 days of silence from Palin. And a nationwide discussion about what that hate inspired.

Uday - emotion verses education differentiates extremists from moderates. Silly 'left verses right' is necessary to have you ignore a real conflict - informed moderates verses emotional extremists.

I threatened you when you called my wife (which I don't have) a gonorrhea dripping whore.
There are plenty here who know the truth.

tw, you ARE a liar. Try to prove me wrong. You won't because you know I am correct.

classicman? really? i'm going to post to both extremes here. classicman will not by any means harm you. this is a forum sir and opinions are what it is about. i am aware that you and UT are friends but come on dude....bodily harm? show proof.

beh. show proof here too. saddam, to remind you did gas an entire town in iraq here

No. Don't.

Classic, shut up. TW, shut up. For Christ's sake, we don't need another round of this.

You are right Clod - Please note where I got dragged into this again by that asshat liar tw.

Uday - I did not identify anyone by name. Had he been a moderate, then he would have said nothing. Would not have been identified. But he is an extremist. Therefore he posted emotionally with intent to insult me.

As with other posts in this thread, this one only states facts - hard, blunt, and honest. An honesty that makes some angry. If another becomes more logical, then Clodfobble’s fears need not be realized.

The logical reply was to post nothing. To not demonstrate the characteristics of extremism. And to not identify one who did try to harm me.

I never intended to and still do not mentioned his name. I never mentioned his name for reasons logical - including that his name was not relevant to the point.

Clodfobble fears an emotional outburst because I identified the fundamental problem with extremists. Rightly so. Extremists will use nastiness to make logical posting impossible. Extremists dislike that fundamental reality.

It is not left verse right. It is informed moderates verses emotional extremists. Never, for one minute, forget why hate works so well for extremism.

The smartest action an extremist can do is stay away from and to not read any discussions that defines the nature of extremism. Otherwise they will become emotional – and prove my point. With but another insult.

you sorry son of a BITCH don't you EVER send me another PM cussing me out you mother fucking jackass. i had no idea you were the one threatening tw and by GOD that man has the right to his opinion as do i and as do you and as do everyone else in the world. BUT TO CUSS ME OUT PRIVATELY? FUCK OFF.

want proof? all one person has to do is ask and i WILL show the shoe that will fit your sorry ass. motherfucker.

bring it. i goddamn dare you.

i will put your sorry ass on front street in a heart beat.

in fact why don't you call me...

713-866-6249

Excuse me but:

WTF?

I mean really. W. T. F. ?

How are we still discussing that row? It happened years ago.

These are the good old days.

I'll go dump some tea in the harbor while you pass the port to mock the French and their claret.

Believe it or not, the threat was less than a year ago. Time flies when you're having fun.:D

Is there an "invisible hand" at work in the Cellar that drags people into discussions?

If so,it must be the economic conservatives/libertarians who support that line of thinking.

On a more serious note and to bring the discussion back on topic, that "invisible hand" is a significant difference between left and right when it comes to economic policy.

"Everybody lies."
-- House

"House Lies."
--Everybody

House ∈ Everybody

I think this thread now very effectively illustrates the relation between American Right and Left.

Politically, they aren't too far apart (by global standards), but by god they hate each others' guts and aren't afraid to express it.

Oh and Hi Uday, welcome to freedom! I hope it goes well for you and your country and all the other Midle-East countries that are going through this upheaval.

Yes, it was a very effective demonstration.

Thank you.

Timothy McVey killed how many in Oklahoma? So we should ignore why it happened because it was so long ago?

Nothing has changed. Demonstrated so obviously is political conflict. Extremists vs. moderates. Uday asked a question. Demonstrated bluntly by example was his answer. An answer that will be often repeated due increasing extremism especially in America.

PITA is not trying to subvert governments for their political agenda. So PITA extremists are not posting here. Or maybe we could try?

"Kaddafi is a kitten killer." That should create enough emotion to even overthrow a government in Libya.

Meanwhile, never forget that hate and other emotions that empower extremism. To promote their political agenda rather than advance mankind. Hate – as discussed in another thread - is why American journalists were attacked and raped. Encouraged by extremists who told the most naive that international journalists were conspiring to subvert the Egyptian government. It got nasty quickly after extremists disseminated their hate message. Hate works on those who do not know how to think logically.

A reality that should be restated often because it makes extremists both angry and easily identified. And a problem made harsh in America due to extremists such as Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck who preach hate routinely and daily on American radios. At the expense of moderates.

I have had a third party come up and threaten me in a diner because I was discussing some of what I have posted here with another private person. Happened twice because differences between moderates and extremists were defined. Being in another nation, you may not realize how nasty it is slowly becoming in America. Something I had not seen since days when Kent State students were murdered.

“Kaddafi is a kitten killer”. Where is PITA when we really need an extremist to make life interesting?

i have to say this. classicman sent me a pm today. this is really quite funny! well. i won't go into it, however we're all good and are laughing about this misunderstanding. sir, i apologize for going ape shit! i am both relieved and well, laughing still. chuckling as i type this...careful about copy paste when tired and be suuuuuure you send it to the right person! no worries man. and to everyone else i have to say i apologize for the profanity. i'm usually a calm collected individual. you got me! lmao!!! oh and did anyone else call that phone number?? it;s a riot!! a prerecorded message. in fact gonna change my tag line to it!

then classic got me with this:

Sure man - gimme a call - 202-452-7468!

the rejection hotline from his area i suppose! :D good one man!