Need advice
 

I'm ready to build a new system but I've not kept up with technology and stuff recently.

Here's what I want in my new box...

Single Processor Celeron or Intel, doesn't matter to me.
about 1.7-2.0 Ghz is fine. 256K cache minimum, 133Mhz bus speed minimum. This means both the mommyboard and processor need to be replaced.

512 Mb RAM of some kind...SDRAM, or whatever fits.

CD/RW with DVD compatability preferred but not necessary...I can save my 44X CD and use this Iomega CD/RW drive (650) if I need to.

40 Gig HD 7200 rpm...bigger is better.

I already have a 3.5 floppy.

I have a mini tower case with a 250 watt PS in it, but a new one isn't a bad thing either...I would rather use existing stuff if I can, but I won't shy away from the extra $70 or so for a new box if the motherboard won't fit in my box.

I'll need two USB ports, one for the ZIP drive and one for whatever...joystick or camera or something.

I need either a 17" flat screen or a 19" tube thing that can display something like 1200x1200. Whatever the GOOD resolution is these days.

I'll need a decent sound card and a GOOD video card.

I must have a 10/100 NIC for the home LAN.

This computer spends half of it's life on the internet doing IRC, email, surfing and streaming video/audio and the other half playing flight sims, first-person shooters and other graphic-intensive stuff. Oh yeah, I'm looking at doing some design work with a CAD/CAM-like setup also. More on that another time.
________________

The rest of the stuff I need:

a 17" flat screen and 512 RAM (details later when I open the box) plus a decent sound and video card to upgrade another computer.


There will be a total of three computers on the home network. One is already good enough. The other two are too old and cranky and thus are ready for upgrades / replacement. Printers already exist (one for each).

My computer will become a dual-boot system with Windows XP and Mandrake Linux (yes I'm ready for that step finally!). I do not yet know if there's any difference to me between EIDE and SCSI architecture....Comments anyone?

I can buy two new systems from Dell for about $1600. I want this tab to come in around $1000-$1200.

Help me design new boxes please!

Brian

I will get back to you tomorrow, but we can definitely set you up really nice (2 boxes, no slack, ~$1000-1200). I am busy tonight (just got back from the gym for a break, about to go and do cardio for a while)... but I will definitely hook you up tomorrow at work.

First off, don't get a flat-screen monitor if you play games. They're not nearly as good as tubes for anything that needs high FPS.

Second, don't get too wrapped up in the specs. It's better to choose parts that "go together" well instead of saying "my CPU must have 256K cache".

As far as the actual CPU goes, for any decent system like the one you describe, you're always best off to just buy whatever is in the "sweet spot" at the time. That means the one that isn't quite bleeding-edge technology, but is still ahead of the power curve. Look at the prices of CPU's, and there's always a distinct cutoff where you pay a whole lot more for not much faster of a chip. Buy the one that's right below that cutoff.

Since I've never built an Intel system, I'll let Dave handle more detailed recommendations.

I'm a tube snob myself. I'm impressed at the picture and color quality of modern LCDs, but I code for a living, so I demand lots of pixels. Plus, you can get WAY more tube (quantity as well as quality) for WAY less money than any LCD.

You might also wanna check out reviews of your current sims and what you plan to play in the future. Seems to me that sims stress hardware more than most games, so you might want to aim ahead of the curve to support your habit, if funding permits.

Okay...I'm not stuck on LCDs. I can do with a tube too.

I'm looking for advice/specs/fantasy boxes.

I need the specs so I know what to shop for, advice is for discussion purposes to clarify what I want. Fantasy boxes are for getting me the most bang for my bucks.

Dave, I'll look forward to your proposal.

Brian

Again, I've never built a non-AMD system, so I can't offer a whole lotta help on specific components.

A couple more things though: any motherboard you get today will have two USB ports. But there are some coming out with USB 2.0, which you'll begin to see supported by many more peripherals in the near future. It's something like 10x as fast as current USB. So you may want to seriously consider that if you want upgradeability.

Also, 250W is definitely underpowered for today's systems. It may work for a Celeron, but for what you need, a Celeron won't do. You'll almost certainly be getting a Pentium 4, for which you'll need one of the newer PS'es with the extra 12V connector.

350W should do it. I think 400W or higher is overkill, especially for a 1-CPU system with only 2 or 3 drives. You should be able to use your old case (just switch out the PS), as long as it has an ATX-style power switch (the momentary-on kind) rather than the older AT style (the on/off toggle kind).

Even then, you could replace the power switch, but that can get really annoying. Prolly better in that case to just get a new box with a new PS built-in.

You're right about the 19" monitor; that's definitely the way to go. Anything bigger is still too expensive, but 19" will give you plenty of real estate, and you can get a not-too-shabby one for $250 on sale if you time it right, or a pretty good one for $400.

Real quick - my apologies. I am on the end of a software project right now and I was getting it all wrapped up yesterday. I should be done today and I'll make up the list.

AMD's are mostly fine for what you're doing today. I will lean toward Pentium 4, but you will spend extra money for it.

USB 2.0 is rated to 480 Megabits per second. USB 1.1 is rated for 12 Megabits per second. Much more than 10 times faster. :)

Definitely go for a 19" flat monitor. I'd get a flat screen, not a flat panel. The difference is that one is a CRT with a flat screen, the other is an LCD (flat panel). 19" flat CRT's can actually be found at Wal Mart for not too expensive, but they <b>do</b> add to the cost of a system. I will still try and work it in.

What? nothing yet?

I was hoping for better than that from you all...especially Mitch and sycamore.

It's almost time for shopping! Let's get on the stick people!

Brian

Mitch is probably mad busy with some top secret project...

But me?

ME?!

*looks around* Me?

If you want to know about good cheesesteak places in the Northeast, the best cardiac carts in Center City, where to go and not to go in Baltimore and Washington, and Cliff Clavin-esque facts, I'm your guy.

When it comes to computers, I am profoundly retarded. :)

Just when it comes to computers, eh?

Hmmm...that's a good question, juju. Lessee, I am completely stupid on:

--Aviation

--Guns

--Motorcycles

--Sports that are not generally played in this country (like cricket)

--Boats

--Fixing a car (I know about cars, and what goes wrong with them, but don't give me a wrench)

Those are the ones I can think of off-hand.

But, I can make a mean sweet potato pie. :)

Forgive me for fingering you as a techo-geek. I coulda sworn it was you that built an uber-box a while ago but I'm too lazy to search back that far...if I even can.

Whoever it is that knows their desktops well...even if you're in the biz and can get me a deal...please post before Xmas.

I'm woefully out of the loop on PC parts and I need a new machine BAD!

Brian

OKAY!

It was me that built the box, and it's me that's going to price 'em for you *today*. I got really busy on a project at work and then I stupidly spent a lot of time responding to some other posts here on the Cellar and not lining up your boxes.

But I have some free time so I'm on it *now*.

Give me a few hours and I'll have it up (or a good reason why I can't build boxes to your specs :) )

--dave

Brian -

shoot me your phone number, I'll call you and we'll go over this stuff. Private message here on the Cellar is the best way. Thanks

--dave

Brian, here's what you need
 

Brian,

Avoid celeron chips. They're evil.

Go for a P4 from 2.0Ghz to 2.4 Ghz.
Get at least a 300W PS.
USB 2.0 PCI card, if your motherboard does not have it. Not only does it do 480Mb/s, the standard NEC chipset has 3 USB controllers on it, and it makes even USB 1.1 devices way faster. Cost is around $30 for this.
1394 Firewire card. These are $20.

Video Card: go for an ATI Radeon 9000 or equivalent. These things kick, and for the price, you can't do better.

CD-RW: There are CD-RW drives for $60 that are 44x at CompUSA, and the HI-VAL ones actually are darn good for the price.
DVD: You can get this for $30 with software off of the net too.

Motherboard: Any ASUS P4 motherboard will make you happy. These are the ones that let you flash your BIOS from Windows 2000 or XP. Gigabyte is to be avoided like the plague. $100

Hard Drive: Maxtor makes some good 40GB HD's, and you can get them for around $70. There are bigger ones available, but 40GB is enough for most people.

Sound Card: SB Live! $30 for this too.

Your average motherboard these days does have onboard Ethernet. If you need a fast ethernet card, lemme know, I've got a stack I can part with.

Mitch

Re: Brian, here's what you need
 

Really? How's it do that; bigger cache or something?

I have a USB 2.0 card that came with my Asus dual Athlon board, but I'm not really using it 'cause I don't have any 2.0 devices.

What kinda speed improvement do you see?

Hmmm, looks like you're misinformed about 1.1 devices running faster:

http://www.everythingusb.com/usb2/faq.htm
I suppose you'd notice a speed improvement if you were previously maxing out your bandwidth, but unless you're using several high-speed devices at once, I doubt that'd happen.

USB 1.1 v 2.0
 

Tobiasly,

The reason I said the NEC was faster was because for multiple devices, there are 3 separate USB 1.1 controllers on the NEC chip. This means that the controller itself can, instead of handling multiple devices with one controller, mux it amongst 3.

This means that when you have what I have (USB Scanner, Gamepad, CF Reader, web cam, keyboard, mouse, USB 2.0 HD (for work), Belkin USB Serial Port, and ATI Remote Control Reciever), things work a lot better off of the NEC than anything else.

It's more scalable than the 1 or 2 placed in most Intel motherboards.

Mitch

I think my head has exploded. Too many unfamiliar expressions and abbreviations.

And I don't know if I want SCSI or ATA drives.

cache? more = better? or just more expensive?

423 pin CPU or 478?

how big a cooling fan do I need?

133 bus or 100? or more?

how much video RAM? max it out or can I get by with, say, 64 Megs?

I'm lost these days and I don't want to take courses to catch up.

Dave or Mitch, call me when you have time and I'll take your advice.

Thanks

Brian

Re: USB 1.1 v 2.0
 

Sorry, missed your post earlier..

I said at the end of my post, "I suppose you'd notice a speed improvement if you were previously maxing out your bandwidth, but unless you're using several high-speed devices at once, I doubt that'd happen." And I believe you fit that description. :)

To answer your questions:
 

Here's what you want out of that:

1. Socket 478 is your friend. The chips are smaller and cooler. You'll still need a big fan, but the OEM CPU packs come with them. If not, a good one is available for $20 :).

2. 133Mhz bus. Yes, you want this. The 100Mhz bus is SLOW.

3. ATA drives are significantly faster than they used to be. For what you need, ATA is fine, and SCSI is still very expensive.

4. More cache is better with the P4, yes. The 133Mhz ones have 512K, which is enough. Celerons have less, and should be avoided. The new Celerons are socket 478 as well.

Mitch

Brian, in order:
<UL>
<LI>If you don't know whether you want SCSI or ATA, you want ATA. At least UltraDMA/100. Don't worry too much about UDMA/133, Serial ATA, or any of the newer stuff; for a single hard drive, you won't max out your bus's bandwidth anyway. But <B>make sure</B> it's 7200 RPM.. never buy a 5400!</LI>
<LI>Cache.. hard drive cache? Yes, more is better, but cache works best only when you're streaming data continuously, such as video editing and the like.</LI>
<LI>Buy a chip with however many pins your motherboard uses. :) Or rather, buy a motherboard that accepts however many pins your CPU has. It's not the # of pins; it's the capability of the chip.</LI>
<LI>Unless you're overclocking (which you won't be), the cooling fan isn't a big issue. Just buy one that says it's for whatever CPU you get. Some people will tell you that you need some huge fan/heatsink combo, but please don't spend $30 on a fan.</LI>
<LI>133 bus, at least. I think the newest P4's can go even faster, but those are prolly still too expensive right now.</LI>
<LI>There are probably some 64 MB video cards that outperform 128 MB cards. And then there are different types of video RAM, some of which is faster. I'll let someone else help ya with that, since I don't play games as much.</LI>
</UL>I realize this prolly doesn't help out a whole lot; I just felt like giving my two cents worth.. In your case, I'd definitely recommend just letting someone else pick all the parts for you.

You can still have plenty of fun putting them together yourself, and you'll be more comfortable with making these types of decisions next time.

D'oh! Forgot to hit "submit" for an hour or so!

Um, yeah, listen to what mbpark says. When it comes to Intel chips, I'm not very good on the specifics.

I want!
 

I saw this somewhere and I gotta have it! Just kidding

but it's cute anyway!

Note the lotion and tissue dispensers?

http://www.cellar.org/images/LovePC01.jpg

are those coin acceptors on the front?

~james

With the Dremel tool (case seen at the lower right in that picture), you can cut pretty much any hole in the side of your case, in any shape you like.

im getting one for christmas. :)

~james

Sure looks like it!

Maybe it plays Ms. Pac-Man?

well, if they are, thats the coolest damn case mod ever. the elegant simplicity of it...

~james

The website on the image has the details. not only are they working coin slots but you have to put a quarter in the one on the left to turn the system on. (he has a backup method of course) Also, the LED in the left slot is the hard drive activity light.

Thanks for telling UT. I was going to post the link but then noticed it was already on the image.

I admit I'm slow upstairs these days.

Brian

some progress...I've researched monitors and chose a ViewSonic PS790. 19" .25 mm @ 75Hz, 1600x1200 max.
Not bad and www.monitoronsale.com has em for a good price. Refurbs too if I want to get cheap about it.

next up, motherboards.

Brian "So much to learn and so little time...thank Bob for PCWorld!"

Good monitor choice :)
 

BrianR,

For your motherboard, look no farther than ASUS. They're built like rocks, and I've had several that just are incredibly stable. They cost a bit more, but are well worth it for the extra functionality you get.

Mitch

(I have most of his thing worked up; I'm planning on calling him tomorrow. I'm recommending an Asus P4S8x or an Asus P4533B, depending... there's another one, but I can't remember the name - but it's the dual-channel DDR. That's what I'm putting in my next system.)

Asus is the shiznit
 

Dave,

Good choice.

Some of us are working on a few too many tech issues these days that keep us employed. However, I standardize everything I recommend based on past experience and satisfaction, and Asus is at the top of my list for motherboards.

I've been working on this framework for other organizations for PC purchasing and standardization. I like helping people make good decisions. However, most of the people who buy PCs are not aware of the decisions needed to be made :(.

Mitch