WikiLeaks
 

This is becoming bigger news with a larger impact all the time so I thought I would start a dedicated post to it.

It looks like some major banks may be the next target of this idiot.

http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenber...ulian-assange/

Hopefully the will hunt him down.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...112904326.html

I'm impressed by this guy...
He seems to have a lot of experience and understands the benefits to what he is doing.
The last 3 or 4 pages of the interview are quite revealing, and I liked his final statement: "courage is contagious"

So Lamp - you think what he is doing is a good thing?

You really support this guy? Please explain.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...285411052.html

This guy is far from a journalist and should not be afforded any such protections.

You know what would be delicious?

Oh, never mind.

Yes. Just as I believe it takes an informed public to keep a democracy.

The vast majority of the "damage" done by whistle-blowers and leakers
has only been embarrassment or exposure of illegality.
As he says, those who want to keep secrets are the ones who set the penalties,
and some of those penalties are severe.
It takes a lot of courage to act in the face of those penalties.

So you basically support the treasonist acts of individuals who stole and redirected classified information from your government, which has the ability to cause direct harm to our relationships with other governments and indangers individuals who have collaborated with us.

So you wish to label every whistle-blower and leak as "treason" ?

How many such events have resulted in the person actually
being tried and actually being convicted of "treason" ?

If a leak of a policy or action causes embarrassment to the country,
get rid of the official that set that policy and change the policy
If the policy is illegal, change the policy, don't classify it as "national security".

In this case with WikiLeaks as the conduit, yes, they have someone under arrest. And yes, I fully expect that individual to be tried for treason. There is no doubt that this information was highly classified in many cases. I just can't you would believe that it is ok to support such an act of treason. Numerous people who have released classified information have been successfuly tired.

If my government is doing something wrong, I'm fine with a whistle blower shining some light on it. If it gives our government a black eye, then the government is doing something and they deserve that black eye.

This latest release of diplomatic cables is different. Diplomacy is about negotiation, and part of negotiations is talking with your team in secret about the strategy for the negotiations. Secrets are ok here, and they are just words and ideas, not actions taken. Releasing this information hurts the US and doesn't benefit anyone except its enemies/rivals.

glatt - I agree - and take it a step further... This hurts a whole lot more than just the US. This could/will potentially destabilize relationships between other countries as well.

Exactly, if in a leaked missive, Hillary says Putin is not to be trusted, everyone is shocked except Putin, but he'll play it for advantage.

Yes, I've heard they have a soldier under arrest and he will probably be tried.

Not everything is treason, but it's a label that gets thrown about.
That is, the "embarrassed party" views everything in worst possible case scenario (to them self).

But keep in mind there's a difference between public exposure and giving "secrets" to an enemy.
As discussed in the interview, once both sides know a "secret" it loses it's importance to both sides.

The 'how' of this has gotten my attention.


The underlying plot thickens.

Manning, the private who apparently copied the documents confesses online to a hacker.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/gl...6/18/wikileaks


Treason? He was working for the Army at the time he copied the documents.Didn't he take an oath to protect the interests of the U.S. and her allis? Public exposure is a pretty soft word. Should we all start copying information from the hard-drives of where we work and expose them?

WTH Lamp? Look at it this way -
I know you cannot be trusted. Now - try to negotiate with me.

After 9-11, so much was made of the lack of communication between various arms of the government, they hooked everything together with access by even lowly clerks.

People say all kinds of things on the internet they wouldn't say in person. When you have something that's bugging you, and have to talk to someone, a stranger on the net seems to be a safe option after you've developed some kind of rapport.

Think of all the hobos we've admitted to killing.

Sky, I'd say yes to copying and whistle-blowing if what a company is doing is illegal.
I doubt many wrong-doers will publicize their own wrong-doings.

Ironically, this will probably cause the opposite effect of what wikileaks was hoping for. If they were looking for more transparency, it will cause US leaders to be even more secretive and come down on leaks even harder. If they were looking for a change to a more liberal, by liberal I mean sunshine and flowers type of liberal, US foreign policy, I could see it becoming even more blunt.

There is a need for classified information and blunt foreign policies but the problem, as always, is where is line drawn in the sea of gray.

The only time I like to see this, though, is in Hollywood, or maybe a good book. I suppose that makes me shallow.

:blush:


I am also loyal to a fault, which also pegs me as having no scruples.
ah, well

If this guy Manning had access to these documents, I am sure other people did too. Why should we ( you ) pat this guy on the back when all of the others decided to stay true to their government, and die in the line of duty too.

I wouldn't have done it. For their sakes. For the sake of being a team.For those who I would have considered my brothers and sisters, in arms. I wouldn't have done it.

Classic, I doubt seriously the State Dept will not be able to negotiate with others.

One of the talking heads on TV reported that the response of former State Dept diplomats
was not about the embarrassment or trust, but the perception that diplomats were acting as spies.

If that's the policy (i.e., to spy), then change the policy.
I'm surprised Hillary didn't know better than to perpetuate Condy's policy.

But so far Wikileaks is not about Hillary, and I essentially agree with Piercehawkeye's last comment:

That's the fucking point! You can't draw a line in a gray area, nobody will know where it is. That's why diplomats need latitude, and the ability to communicate frankly with their associates in other parts of the world, without fear of assholes like wikileaks.

Yes, and if found guilty I hope he hangs.

There is no doubt that the acts are treasonous.

So you view that this information release is nothing more than an embarrassment?

There is no doubt that every enemy of our country is sucking this stuff up with a large wet vac.

I can't believe you continue to sound so flippant about the damage known and potential. This is not "whistle-blowing".

Again, I wasn't talking about JUST THE US. This is much bigger than that.

Separate issue, but I do not think its a good thing letting them know this.
How many of those diplomats are going to be able to talk to other countries when they are now perceived as spies?

no it isn't - you are the first to bring her up.

It certainly weakens our position. Or don't you care about that?

But what if that was the policy? You don't like it or agree with it and are happy they leaked stolen classified information?

Good news....

WikiLeaks ‘Cablegate’ Site Hit By Powerful Cyber-Attack

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/11/...-cyber-attack/


A bit like closing the barn door after the horse got away, but hopefully they will destroy this organization.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20101130/D9JQEI3O1.html

Are still impressed by him?

Classic, see post # 14

But that's really not the main point.
The new media have been talking about leaks of State Dept materials, and the "spying" issue has been a major sub-topic.

The policy/directive to carry out the "spying" was a policy initiated by Sec of State Rice, and more recently continued by Sec of State Clinton.

So what?

The more you know about the other players, on your team as well as the opposition, the better you can play.

Yea, which is why they should throw the book at WikiLeaks and all of those involved. This is an obvious attack on the US. He should be treated as a terrorist. A cyber terrorist, but a terrorist never the less.

Merc , I'm impressed by what the man has to say about his role in Wikileaks in the interview you posted.
I'm seeing him pretty much as a news reporter, and seems to have a lot of integrity about his role and sources.

Ad hominem attacks don't go very far for me, particularly
when it's alleged sexual misconduct that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Sorry missed that. I stand corrected. Bruce brought up Hillary.
I don't know if it was started by Rice or simply continued by her. I believe that point was ambiguous when I first read it... I wouldn't be surprised if it was started by Rice and was precipitated by the 9/11 attacks.

Did you miss this question?
If it were you, would you go to some of those countries knowing they think you are a spy. Consider what they do to spies... Waterboarding would be like taking a vacation.

From Merc's link...
Does that bring them/him under US jurisdiction now?

It is not an ad hominem attack. It is a fact the guy is wanted for questioning in a rape. It speaks to his charater. Or at least it should be suspect. And how you can call a person who is singlehandedly exposing stolen classified information of our government as having "a lot of integrity" in anything associated with this criminal act is beyond me.

He is not a news reporter. He has co-opted the various news organizations as a conduit to his illegal activity.

I suspect they did that because they know if they try a DOS attack on Amazon servers it would affect the transactions of Amazon on-line ordering during the busy holiday season. They should have no problem getting Amazon to shut them down.

Classic, that was the point the former diplomats were making about diplomats being seen as "spies".
Not so much the penalty (I think diplomats are usually deported) as the "trust" issue.
Thus my comments about Hillary should have known better than to approve the continuation of the policy/directive.

Most countries use the terms interchangeably. The top spy in the Russian Consulate is a "diplomat" for protection. He knows who he is, we know who he is, yet he is still known as a "diplomat".

Part of the embassies job has always been to spy. It's been going on for decades. Not since this administration or the previous one, but since the second World War. Probably even before then.

When a spy under diplomatic immunity associated with an embassy was discovered, they would just go home. Can't spy any more when they know you are a spy.

No. It shouldn't say anything about his character unless he is found guilty of the crime. I could accuse YOU or anyone of anything...and it should not speak to your character...until solid facts are brought forth to support my accusation.

At least that's the way it's supposed to work in the US justice system. Innocent until proven guilty...blah blah blah.

True dat, but given that Sweden is probably, along with Norway one of the less easily influenced countries by anything the US wants them to do, I am inclined to believe that they would not issue and arrest warrant for the hell of it. Meaning they have evidence. It disturbs me to see people defending this fool as having "integrity" in light of his current crimes against the US.

National Review

Aliantha, Zen: could you two inform Mr. Assange what an article of incestuous personnel he's being? He might believe it more if it's coming from two Australians. He's got too much of a desire to smirch and impair the hope of the world. He's making Australians look bad. He does not seem to grasp that.

I was wondering why Ali hadn't jumped to Mr. Assange's defense - the shit he is doing is right up her line of liberal blahblahblah but she is AWOL it seems. I would think making the US look stupid would make her, literally, swoon with glee. but, since merc is having none of it, perhaps she's just making herself scarce.

Curiouser and curiouser... Leakers leaking to the leaker

The Telegraph
Nov 30, 2010

Julian Assange: Wikileaks founder fears he could be arrested

Hmm. I don't get that off of Ali. While she prefers Oz to all other lands of her experience, what of that? It is unremarkable -- many Americans who have experience of Australia can certainly understand why she might. At its worst Oz may be a tetch flyblown and has some very unsympathetic reptiles here and there (some of them hanging around in the boozers going from twolegged to legless), but it's no pesthole.

I don't think he is making Australians look bad any more than Bush makes all Americans look bad. But I would be interested in what their government thinks about it and if they would have any suggestions on how to stop him.

Well, we have a limit of two terms as president, so, we got that going for us, which is nice.

We survived him, we'll survive this guy too.

Complete and Utter Bullshit. :lame:

This is going to put some people's tail in a twist...

OneIndia News
WikiLeaks founder Assange asks Hillary to resign

If that is proven she will probably have no choice.

Nonsense, she told them to do, or failed to tell them not to do, what every other embassy has been doing since embassies were invented. Anyone who's been paying attention in this country, has know that since the height of cold war, and anyone that read up on international relations long before that.

If I could catch him to tell him so, I'd be doing better than the AFP, so not much chance of that happening I'm afraid.

I thought you might have grown up a bit by now.

Since you obviously have been missing me, the reason I've not been around to comment is because there has been a death in my family and it has certainly taken precendence over the likes of Mr Assange and yourself.

That's pretty much all true UG. And I certainly don't get any glee out of seeing the US look bad. I suppose there are those who obviously will never believe that even though quite clearly, even in this little space, I have American friends. Why would I measure them all the same? There are arseholes in America that's for sure, but there are plenty of pretty special people too.

Our government is just as eager to catch him as yours is Merc. He's causing all sorts of headaches for those in power.

Agreed!

He's in England, they'll take anybody.;)

Yeah, it's my understanding that the hunt is in the hands of interpol now.

One question I did wonder about are his actions being labled (by the US) as treason. If he's not a citizen of the US, doesn't that mean the crime must fall under some other lable? I agree he's not helping anyone much with the sort of leaks he's responsible for, but it'd seem to me that the worst the US could get him for are computer crimes.

I don't know much about the law though, but I did wonder.

Or espionage? I think the treason was referring to the soldier that stole the information, and treasonous for the act. At least that's the way I read it, but journalists and bloggers have been throwing so much shit around it's hard to tell who said what.

funny how old sweetie pie pants showed up just when she did...weird.

I think that is the route to go, co-conspirator in an act of espionage. Treason is only for American citizens and has some pretty high benchmarks as defined in law. I was listening to a talking head on NPR yesterday about this very subject. It was pretty interesting.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...ge-act-charges

The only time I think people are gleefully sucking up bad news about the U.S. is when they constantly say, 'you merkin's' more than they address any one person. Leads me to think they don't see individuals, but a whole cast of people not up to their level. I don't see that in Ali.