Kid is obsessed, wants everything and lots of it
 

The inch's 7th birthday is about 48 days away. According to his concept of time that is like the day after tomorrow. He is obsessed with this "Forces of Valor" collector's tank that he saw at our local Pet/Hobby shop. They sell for about $50-$60 each.

He just won't stop with it. Last week we were at a Military History Museum and he saw these pull back toy tanks and I didn't get him one (Big mistake and I am still pissed at myself for my totally arbitrary decision not to buy one and defuse the situation) So he decides that the reason I didn't buy him the pull back tank was because I had bigger plans in mind. (Not exactly, no. I was just being a tightwad)

So somehow he figured out that we could look for the tank he wanted on the internet and when we got to the website of "Forces of Valor" and he saw the 97 different tanks they sell, he broke out a pen and paper and began his list. He narrowed it down to about 8 or 9 tanks that "I absolutely have to buy for him"

INCH: "I'm ordering you to buy these."

ME: Order eh -- who does he think he is?
INCH: I am your king!
ME: Well, I didn't vote for you.

But seriously, WTF? He thinks he is going to get nine tanks from me? He is like a cocaine rat with those tanks, Jesus. My wife had this whole convo with him because he thought he wasn't worth the $ that the tanks cost. For some reason his self worth is all wrapped up in things. He definitely associates love with toys (I blame the evil MIL) and was in tears when I read the description of the F of V products as being collectibles for adults and not toys. "I'm not an adult." (therefore no tank) He was sobbing.

The three of them (the inch, the mm, and mrs. foot) are on some kind of emotional jag lately and all of them are crying at the drop of a hat.

I'm fucking perplexed.

um . . . you let your 6 year old surf for toys on the internet?

I mean . . . No, no, no--totally not blaming you. just a little boggled at that.

I say absolutely NOT give him any such toy, or allow anyone else to give him that. Give him a piggy bank and tell him he has to save chore money. Give him a book about tanks instead, or take him to the library and let him check out tanks. Is it a model? Get him a small one he has to put together himself (which I'm pretty sure he couldn't do without help).

Keep him off the tv and out of stores. Hit that self worth does not equal "things" -- HARD.

It's something we all struggle with, adults and kids, in our consumerist society. And we must fight it tooth and nail.

No, he doesn't surf the net, he asked me to look it up for him and stood next to me. We don't own a TV and he gets to watch one video (BBC nature program) per week. He has read just about every book at the library about everything from pyramids to the history of Britain. Especially fond of the DK books.

He's too young for chores and pay-- he doesn't understand money, barely understands numbers and quantities, but he has an astounding vocabulary.

Yeah, my wife and I are not at all consumerist or materialistic. I really have no idea how he is so obsessed with things, the only store he goes to is the food coop. He's been in a target for clothes about five times in his life.

Gonna dig deeper into the self worth thing with him though. I really think the toy thing has always been out of hand, especially from my wife's mom her aunts. He goes for a day outing with grandma and comes back with a toy truck in each hand and one more in hers.

just general comments, okay? You know the answers for yourself, obviously. Keep plugging away at the good stuff. kids don't have any sense of proportion or appropriateness; it's up to us to help them achieve that.

Oh, I appreciate it. I'm always wavering between shock and horror at what I see other parents doing and then wondering if I am the cause of shock and horror to those same parents.

E.g. I take a somewhat Lenny Bruce approach to language. There are no bad words, just inappropriate audiences. I don't drop the F bomb in front of the kids, but I also don't let words like poop and penis become "charged." So when we had a spate of "penis butt" this and that. I just told them that those words are fun to say, but they have to consider who their audience is. It is not ok to say them to the librarian since she is not the right audience, but it is ok to say them to their friends.

Well, almost. Some semi-horrified looks from the other moms at school when the 3 yo, mm, was calling everything "stupid"

Maybe the excessive gift buying by other grownups has taught him to associate happiness with toys and things, moreso than self worth?

In my opinion the only answer is really to simply cut back on the gifts and make sure everyone else does too. Yeah I know you have a hard time controlling MIL, but it's really the only way I think.

I don't think 7 is too young for chores and pay or rewards. Not even close to too young. My cousin has a star chart reward system going for her two boys who are in grade 1 and kindergarten. It works well for her. My boys have always had chores to do also, and they get rewards too. I think they've pretty much always been required to do jobs around the house, and I'll expect Max to do the same. The key is that kids are never too young to learn about reward for effort. It's what teaches them the value of things. I thoroughly believe that the younger they start helping out and being rewarded for it, the better off they'll be.

Honestly, I think in the end, he will be getting a Forces of Valor truck. It's just a question of when, how, and how much resentment he builds up about it beforehand. Vacillating between absolute-zero materialism with mom and dad with spurts of ridiculously high materialism with MIL has got to be hard on the kid. It's my humble opinion that at this point it would be better to get him the truck yourself before your MIL does, which will only reinforce his idea that it's because she thinks he's deserving of it and you don't.

But not for free--I'm with Ali on the 'plenty old enough for chores' idea. If he doesn't really understand money, you can put it in a currency he does understand. Even my kid understood a little picture chart with ten blank spaces and a picture of a Hot Wheels car at the end of the line. (Still decided he wasn't willing to do what was necessary to fill even one square, but he definitely understood what he was supposed to do.) It doesn't have to be chores that are actually useful to you, or things he has to do by himself. Maybe tell him he can wash the car with you for a star, or he can help Mrs. foot fold the laundry for a star, even if he's not really making the process any more efficient. Or he can read a certain number of books to the mm.

He may never be as completely non-materialistic as you want him to be, but he can certainly learn a sense of working hard for it in the process...

Edit to add: I just had a flashback to my childhood. My parents never did this, but my best friend across the street would regularly be sent to the neighbors on either side to ask if they had any chores that needed doing. She would do a kid's crappy job of raking their leaves or whatever, but work her ass off doing it, and the neighbors didn't care because they were going to have to do it anyway and it was funny watching the neighbor-kid fight with a rake that was taller than she was.

that's a pretty good compromise

Do NOT cave to the emotional Black male

.

We've been right there... and the problem is that "Yeah, my wife and I are not at all consumerist or materialistic." and " he doesn't understand money, barely understands numbers and quantities".

he gets from you that you're not really concerned about stuff and money, so he doesn't get that these things are not freely available.

Time for a math and reality lesson. or two.

And you do need to reel your MIL in a little. Tell her your principles and that you understand if she doesn't agree and if that is the case, it's fine for her to buy those toys, but they need to stay at her house for when he visits.

Our kids are a little older than yours, and love when Grandma visits because she takes them to the toy store and buys them stuff. Now they tell her that and it doesn't feel so good. You'll be doing MIL a favor too.

He's old enough to be setting and clearing the table at dinner. Sweeping the floor on a regular schedule (maybe with a gentle reminder when it's time.) Folding clothes. There are a few chores he's capable of doing.

If it were me, I'd probably end up buying him ONE of the tanks for his birthday, or letting him earn ONE through a couple of weeks of chores. The timing is bad, because ideally I'd have him work for a month to earn one, but then you will be almost at his birthday anyway when you would be getting him a gift without expecting him to earn it.

But I think at his age he is capable of learning about how much stuff costs, and that you have to earn money. I'd consider giving him a regular chore and a small allowance. 50 cents a week or so. That way he can go to the store and see how much stuff costs and compare it to what is in his hand. Do you have any stores near you that sell cheap crappy toys from China? Like the little plastic army dudes or the balsa wood airplanes? Letting him look at the $1.95 balsa wood airplane when he only has 50 cents is a good lesson.

Work him hard enough and he'll be to tired for toys... especially if you cut his portion of gruel. ;)

yes, the small amount of pocket money helps. And it has to be small -if it's a dollar, then there's a lot of crap they can instantly buy with that.

I'd figure coins are easier to understand. More substantial, and better to understand it doesn't have to be all or nothing. You can spend part/keep part, watch them accumulate/diminish, as a result of earning/spending. And being used to coins makes it easier on the tooth fairy. ;)

Did you two plan that?

All of you have made some very good points, I will be back later tonight after they have gone to bed and will write more. I appreciate the perspective you all, or y'all, have given me.

Get him a model tank from the hobby store and spend an afternoon with him building it and painting it. That way he has a sense of accomplishment and pride in it and maybe will see it as something much more valuable than something pre-made that doesn't take any effort. I was big into military tanks at his age too, and I had much more fun building models with my dad than just buying something from the store. Held onto those things forever. :2cents:

Smart idea Bullitt.

I had/have a Gifting Gramma problem as well. Over-time the kids have remained on our end of the materialism spectrum but they know Gramma is wired differently and are gracious in accepting. Their cousins are very stuff oriented but that is really a parent thing. Try to keep Gramma sane but remember your values are the ones they see modeled day in day out.

I was totally going to suggest the model idea too.
I also agree he is old enough to be helping with chores, the chart idea works well.
We had an emotionally challenged child, and one thing that worked well for us was to pay daily. We broke down his chores. IE: making his bed = 25 cents, putting his clothes in the laundry basket = 10 cents, help with setting the table = 25 cents, etc... worked out to basic chores = $5.00/week.
He then had a "shopping day" once a week where he was able to spend half of his earned money. The other half went into a jar for something "big". We told him we would pay for half of whatever that ended up being. We put several items, cut out of magazines onto a chart, with the $$$ amount, then had a thermometer deal beside it. We cloured in our half in blue. Each week he was able to colour in some, eventually getting to his goal. It did not take him long to realize us paying for half of something really big was better than getting the first item on his list.
Maybe something like this can help you.

I really like the colouring in idea Jaydaan. I think kids do 'get it' more when there's something physical for them to measure in simple terms.

I think the model building is a great idea bullitt.

I don't pay my kids to do normal chores, but I have a list of extras they can do along with the price I'm willing to pay. If they want to earn some money for something, they can pick something from the list and have at it. Of course, they aren't allowed to do something on the list instead of normal chores, regular stuff has to be done first, then they can tackle a money-maker.

I do think kids need to learn that 'things' cost money, and money takes work. That and to be realistic about their wish lists ;)

That's sorta how we roll too, stormie. I also operate a random rewards policy where if they've done something they should do nicely without being nagged, or something they weren't asked to do, they might get a little extra.

We don't do any money for chores here. I'd rather the rewards were intrinsic. <shrug> Every kid/family is different in needs and expectations though.

Oh, I missed an essential part of Stormie's post :o There's no list here. We don't pay for regular chores, but if they want to earn money to buy something specific, they can ask and I'll usually find something.

washing the car was always my money chore when I was a kid

There were no money chores when I was a kid. But my dad was tighter than a detroit mayor and his mom.

It was uncanny that right after I posted this, the inch came up to me and asked me how he could earn some money. (A few months ago, he had asked to earn some money so I had him sort out a big box of mixed screws and nails into their respective types and sizes. He did a great job and it was worth a couple of bucks to me to recover a few hours of time and several dollars worth of miscellaneous fasteners.) So I came up with a few chores that were outside of his regularly expected chores. Mainly he is expected to clean up and put away all his toys and anything he uses during the course of the day.

So now, after he has done whatever assigned chore he's been given, he is eligible to do a money earning chore. (I am thinking the whole chore thing might be a ticket to easing up our workload eventually, once we can get him to stay on task.) Anyway, so far it seems to be working, he has been earning money, fifty cents at a time and still has no clue about what it is. e.g. He wanted to be paid for his work so far since the concept of payday at the end of the week was the same thing to him as slavery. He worked, why did I not pay him? I then realized that delayed gratification was a 300 level course. So I agreed to pay him waht he'd earned up to that point ($1.50) and handed him a dollar and he said thanks and walked away. I followed him with the fifty cents and asked him how much a dollar was and how much a dollar fifty was. He got the answer right, but didn't really connect the answer to a bill and two coins...

He has also defused a lot of his mental energy by making drawings of tanks and planes and bombs, etc. His mom trained as an art therapist, so that was her idea and it has worked very well. Models are coming down the pike.

Today his grandma called and he told me to tell her not to buy him the tank, because he is worried that she will get him a small one. This was kind of funny to me because he reasoned that that would be the only tank he'd get, the small one. He didn't figure that he'd get a small one from grandma and a big one from me. He's a funny kid.

He's special to you, but frankly, seems like he's just a kid. Which is great. I don't see anything abnormal in what you just described. But then who am I to judge.....

What? Why not, that's the American way. Judge other people's kids, cars, houses, clothes, jobs, taste in music, and everything else. :lol:

Ahh you're just jaded since you've got three.:p:

Great ideas foot. Have him do those menial jobs you just don't have the time for. Watch out, there is a partner in training there. :)

I would say OK, then buy whatever is a reasonable gift.

Since he wants so much army things, on the birthday party he'll ask why, etc...

Answer : a good soldier never refuse a direct order, that's insubordination... but he has the right not to act on a stupid one.

And if he is so fond of army, perhaps 2 weeks in a real hard boot camp will do the trick.

Boot camp for 5 year olds?

We call it "home schooling" :eek: (and he's six and 10/11ths)

My Dad's childhood was apparently terrifying, as I mentioned elsewhere (probably in his memorial thread) When he was 17 he pulled out a bad tooth with a pair of pliers so the recruiter would accept him for the draft in WWII rather than face his mom witha bad report card. He said Boot Camp was like a vacation and he never met a DI who was half as scary as his mother.

More later

Goodness, let me tell you -- when my daughter was that age, did she ever know how to push buttons in an attempt to manipulate. Come to think of it, she still does, but it's easier now (at 14!!! easier than 6!!!) because she knows she won't always get her way and we're onto her BS tactics. Doesn't stop her from trying.

My daughter would have absolutely done something like that over a toy she wanted. One time she played the "you don't love me so I'm gonna kill myself" card, and it made me so angry I think I freaked her out more than she freaked me out. :) We had some fun go-rounds back then - and there were times I thought there was something wrong with her emotionally, that we had a totally dysfunctional family. But guess what? It's totally normal to feel like things are really screwed up, sometimes.

It's hard, but it'll be okay.

And if it's any help, we had a few lines we trotted out whenever the materialism monster threatened. Yes, other kids have more stuff, but aren't you lucky to have parents who find other ways to show you how much we love you? For some parents, that's all they know how to do. And if you had everything you wanted, what would you have to wish for? And, since I was a stay-at-home mom (still am) I told them that sure, we could buy them more stuff but then I'd have to go back to work and get you a sitter, and what would you rather have?

But I'm certainly no expert! All I can say is that my two (12 and 14) seem pretty happy and well-adjusted, at least at the moment.