Race to the Top Education
 

Testing the Chinese way. Article from The New York Times.


We were living in China, where their school blended a mostly Western elementary school curriculum with the emphasis on discipline and testing that typifies Asian educational styles. In Asia, such a march of tests for young children was regarded as normal, and not evil or particularly anxiety provoking. That made for some interesting culture clashes. I remember nearly constant tension between the Asian parents, who wanted still more tests and homework, and the Western parents, who were more concerned with whether their kids were having fun — and wanted less.

But recently, American education’s “no test” philosophy for young children has been coming under assault, as government programs strongly promote the practice.
First there was No Child Left Behind, which took effect in 2003 and required states to give all students standardized tests to measure school progress.
Now, President Obama’s Race to the Top educational competition — which announced billions of dollars in state grants this month — includes and encourages more reliance on what educators call “formative tests” or “formative assessments.” These are not the big once-a-year or once-in-a-lifetime exams, like the SATs, but a stream of smaller, less monumental tests, designed in theory, at least, primarily to help students and their teachers know how they’re doing.
Some education experts hail the change as a step forward from the ideological dark ages. “Research has long shown that more frequent testing is beneficial to kids, but educators have resisted this finding,” said Gregory J. Cizek, a professor of educational measurement and evaluation at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

But Professor Cizek, who started his career as a second-grade teacher, said the prevailing philosophy of offering young children unconditional praise and support was probably not the best prescription for successful education. “What’s best for kids is frequent testing, where even if they do badly, they can get help and improve and have the satisfaction of doing better,” he said. “Kids don’t get self-esteem by people just telling them they are wonderful.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/12/we...l?pagewanted=1

So what do you think about this?

Why? You don't like cut and pasting? ok


This is one persons experience with the Asian educational system. I doubt we will become so regimented. I don't know if there is any real connection between her experiences and Obama's race to the top program.

I do agree with the statement by Professor Cizek, however. Overpraise and underachievement hasn't been good for our educational system. The only area we are still good at competition is in the area of sports, and that by it's very nature. I think we should up the anti a little as far as educational achievements but I do not really know how the Asian educational system relates to Obama's race to the top program.

I am reading about that right now.

right. I don't like cut and paste with no added thought.

the overpraise thing happens in sports too. "Yay! you were present at six kindergarten soccer games. Here's a trophy."

If it still works for sports, why doesn't it work for academics?

Here in Ann Arbor, We have many Chinese, Korean and Japanese families. A lot of them are med interns at the U of M hospital. They are all about the academic excellence and the sporting excellence -in swimming and figure skating. Their kids are amazing. They seem happy. But you know what? The parents are not happy. Well not in an American/British sense of the word. Their entire lives revolve around making sure their kids get the best academic grades and win their sporting events. And when that happens, they are happy. But the law of probability says mostly that doesn't happen, so mostly they are disappointed. What sort of happy is that? And what purpose is this serving? Their kids can go on and have the same life... hurrah....

I'll take happy kids now and happy kids in the future, thanks. With a free serving of no more testing memorized shit that means nothing to the memorizer. kthnx.

It's a matter of tradition and pride I suppose. Happiness is a good thing but to each their own.

From the little I read, the states propose the educational standards, and then the grants are awarded. I have not been able to find specifics, probably because the standards have yet to be revealed.

I hope it isn't more testing as in the No Child Left Behind kind of testing. I wouldn't think so, since it has been a dismal failure. I believe, from what I have read that math and science will be more standardized from state to state. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I am wondering. Will an increase in American math and science majors diminish the need for high tech worker visas? It doesn't seem to be our mode of operation to pay our own when we can get another countries math and science majors at half the price. I know that is defeatist but what will be the benefit if the big corporations don't change the way they do business. More highly degree-d unemployed?

I do agree with what you said about Happiness. Everyone should want happy kids now and in the future. Happiness is a great thing to possess.

No Child Left Behind
Race To The Top

When are we gonna see
No More Fucking Bullshit Passing As Education?

How about 1) Get rid of non performing teachers (meaning teachers who suck at teaching or are just burned out
2) Give the teachers something to work with and some authority
3) Make the parents step to the plate and take some responsibility
4) yyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Bullshit

Except this time, it is the states passing the standards.
The government is just passing the buck. (unintended pun)

this post makes me happy. this is totally what heppens in our (alternate program) school that doesn't happen so much in the mainstream.

(it makes me happy because I was beginning to feel it was only us that felt like this)

Make 'em earn their self esteem. But unfortunately, most kid's source of self esteem is from their parents, so if the parent demands perfection, or the opposite extreme, indifferent, the kid is screwed.

In France, our Education System is different. But I wholeheartedly agree with 1) and 2).

I don't have children so I am not exactly a good judge of the system. Nontheless I've seen everything go downhill for about 30 years now.

The rules were : don't disturb the critters, hence less and less tests, less and less content in classes.

I see it in my younger colleagues : awful grammar and spelling skills, little no knowledge about history/geography, understanding of foreign languages that is abysmal.

The current government tries to get back to at least a good teaching of French, but as a group, the teachers in state schools are saying 'no'.

In reality, grading tests is work and they don't want to. And their status as public servants is such that you cannot fire them unless they kill a child. Molesting would lead only to a transfer away.

I remember my mother (retired private school sector teacher) who usually graded 4 tests a week (French, Math, Sciences, History/Geography) all year long.

In "my" school, in "my" year (age 6-7) we do not criticise the children.
However, according to the child's ability, mistakes are pointed out.

[all names are replaced]
If Jim gets his name right at the top of the page, without prompting, he is praised.
If Hayley does not use capital letters or full stops, that is pointed out to her.
Caitlyn is made aware of every spelling mistake.

We run the gamut from children with actual learning disabilities [receiving support from specialists] to children able to read 2-3 years above their age group. The idea is to judge the results according to the child's ability and always try to push them beyond their comfort zone.

Every single child has a spelling test every single week.
Those with difficulties (ie Jim) get their own words.
Every other child gets the standard spellings. And I did mark children with 1/8 or 2/8.
It's not just a tick and a cross though, it's explaining what was missing, using the THRASS system, sounding the word out and writing the correct spelling.

Same with maths.
Awesome Addition for example.
We had children on Level 11, and some of those on the top table for Literacy (Caitlyn for example) were still on Level 2. Whereas Jamie - in a special class for Literacy, was on Level 8.

I'm not a big fan of tests for littlies.
Not official ones, anyway.
I am a fan of regular tests as a way of learning.
I like that when I try to talk children through problems I can say, "Well you know what 8 + 2 is don't you? So what's another 2?" or "I know you know that word, because you spelled it right last week."

This is how I grew up, and therefore I'm biased.
Given that it's the way children are taught where I work, the bias is multiplied.
But to me it seems to work.
Children at the lower end of the scale still work towards acheiving a personal best.
The results are not read out in the classroom (although peers compare I admit) so no shame or grading is incurred.

And this is a school that teaches discipline.
You do NOT talk in class. Or in the corridors. You enter a class silently and sit on the mat. You raise your hand to speak. You replace your chair under the table when you stand up or leave. You are polite to all adults and let them pass in the corridors. And all that jazz. I'm learning with the children this year - I had no idea how big a gulf there was between 6 and 7 :eek: I suspect I'm a little more disciplinarian than Miss N, because I got used to the older kids... and Ms Mc last year. I have no doubt they'll all shape up though, they're all decent kids.

In "my" school, at least at the level of Year 2, I think a child's happiness depends on their homelife and their classmates, and guidance from the staff to encourage them to learn.

It's a wonderful school.

This is what's missing in our system. If "Jim" has trouble spelling, he does not get his own words, or get specialist tutoring unless his parents push hard for legal recognition of a learning disability (which they mostly won't, because their little angel is perfect, don't you know, and the school sure as hell isn't going to pay for a specialist if they don't legally have to.) The teacher is simply told that if Jim doesn't pass the standardized test with the other students, she will be held accountable, and eventually fired. So the teacher spends all of her time desperately trying to drag Jim and two or three other kids up to everyone else's level, and is forced to neglect everyone who can already pass the test, whether they are at level 8, 11, or anywhere in between.

Yeah, if you "hike at the pace of the slowest hiker" you'll never leave the frigging trailhead.

The mission is education, but job-training is just one of the hidden expectations.
So, at times, grades become the ultimate goal for some students and/or parents.

NY Times - 12/25/10
A Quest to Explain What Grades Really Mean
A corollary is: if everybody in the class gets an C, what does an C mean ?

The article describes several schools that include a calculated "median grade" in the transcript.

But the "median" seems cumbersome and hides information,
when it's the "cumulative percentile" or "rank" that is more informative.
Median: half of the grades are higher, half are lower
Rank: relative position within all grades of the class/school.
The advantage of a "cumulative percentile" is that it shows the distribution of grades in the group,
so it's immediately evident when there are clusters of grades: high, low, or in the middle

I'm all for lowering the median grade to around 2.6. There is an unbelievable amount of entitlement among my peers and I see it as one of the very large problems within American society today. I've seen multiple times where students will not go to class, play video games all day, and then complain about the two papers they have to write and how their professor is a "bitch" for failing them on a test, even though this professor gave an extension on one paper and already gives a generous curve for the entire class.

Competition is good. Separate the students who will work hard from the ones who feel entitled to be in college and get A's for no work.

When I went back to get my Masters, I was stunned at how comfortable people were with asking for extensions and arguing grades despite clearly given time lines and expectations for work.

Competition is a motivator, indeed.
The first classes of my major were in large lecture halls filled with 200+ students,
and it was definitely a weed-out process.

Exams for the each class were staggered
so students could be spaced apart to prevent cheating.
But that didn't always stop it. One fellow was observed cheating,
and afterward the students around him got together for a "friendly discussion" with him.

That episode lead to a 12-student study group for the next 2 years.
In our group, we soon realized who were our better students,
and the competition took different forms, razzing and chiding,
and the "ill-prepared" were responsible for snacks at our next session.
Not only was there the competition within the group, but we usually nailed the top grades of the class.

And it was not just the grades. I believe we really knew the material.
I went on to grad school and of the those that were Pre-Med, most were accepted into Med/Dental School.

My point to all this is that we knew we were not all among the brightest in those classes,
but the competition within that study group made a major difference in study habits and motivation.

I have a bunch of friends who are TAs and professors and that is probably the biggest complaint I hear from them. I can understand extensions under extreme circumstances and I do personally believe learning the material is the most important aspect of classes but some of the stories I hear are completely ridiculous, especially when it comes to arguing grades in graduate school. If you are in graduate school, you need to learn to take responsibility and accept consequences for your grades. Also, I don't know how it is like in your major but graduate school is mostly about research here so arguing grades is usually viewed as a problem within itself.

My experience was very similar. During my junior year, when classes started really picking up for my major, I joined a study group and worked with them for about a year. Doing that changed my study habits and taught me what it meant to actually understand material. We would compete to become the person that would teach everyone else the subject. Not only was a viewed very positively in a social standing sense, that person would almost always do the best on tests (not counting the numerous stupid mistakes).


I don't know how the hell it would implemented because we are culturally fucked in that sense, but creating competition to be the best student would be the best thing that could happen for our country in terms of education. Besides certain fields which force students to become competitive, most students don't give a shit because there is very little incentive do extremely well. I'm curious to see if lowering the average grade would have much effect.

I agree, and stop patting every child on the head for marginal or below standard work and passing out trophies and medals for participation. When a large group of high school graduates can't read at grade level there is a problem.

If you learn 100% of the material presented, you get an A.
If you learn 90% of the material presented, you get an B.
If you learn 80% of the material presented, you get an C.
If you learn 70% of the material presented, you get an D.
If you learn 60% of the material presented, you get a job.

:p:

Love that!

One thing I would like to point out is that in this country, the gutter press bleat on and on about the poor quality of English "these days" and make out that it's the rare few who leave school with any idea of spelling or grammar, even though they have 5 A* GCSEs or more.

I've spent my adult life being a pedant. I can assure you that public use of random apostrophes (aka greengrocers' apostrophes), words spelled as they sound, homonyms, and inappropriate capital letters have been around for at least 20 years. I think part of the problem is not so much "liberal" education strategies, as "liberal" education ideals. The idea that every person is capable of understanding grammar and spelling in all its complexity, or even that it is necessary for communication and a happy existence.

If I'm driving along and see a sign for "Tea's, Coffee's, Sosidge and Bacon" I will roll my eyes, but it doesn't affect my choice of whether to pull over or not. That's affected by how many lorries are parked there (tends to mean it's cheap and clean) or simply by how hungry I am.

Same with "Sale on DVD's in Isle 6" - part of me winces, but if I'm interested in the sale I'll proceed anyway. I remember being challenged about a sign I'd written apologising for the inconvenience of a till being closed. I was 15, the shop manager was in his 40s (and a very savvy man). It took my obvious disbelief and confidence in the spelling to convince him I was correct (and yes, I was). Would I have been capable of running that store, amanging the staff and the cashflow and the ordering? No. Horses for courses.

My spelling is pretty good, given occasional word-blindness and more frequent typos. My grammer is better than the typical man on the street, but appalling by scholarly standards.

Perhaps the right way to address children "failing" is to get them to try something else.
Everyone will succeed at something.
I can't help thinking that if Dad had been encouraged in his artistic ability, he'd never have ended up as first a van driver and then a forklift truck driver all his life. He ticked along quite happily because it's in his nature, and expressed himself artistically in small ways in his time off. But then he did meet and marry my Mum and be subjected to her tyranny for life - something a man with more belief in his talents would surely have avoided...

I don't know how some people get through, with all their self-proclaimed superiority and smarts. They poo and cry about bad education and people not reading or writing well, but still don't know the difference between "to" and "too" (which is what, 2nd or 3rd grade grammar?) among other grammar and spelling gaffes. These same people will say how that sort of stuff isn't important if everyone "knows what they meant" but then they bitch about schools pushing bad students out the door.

It's quite ironic, in the truest sense of irony, not the non-irony often cited by mental midget idgits. Doncha think? :lol:

It is important for the job I want. I had to jump over basic grammar ( which was out of date by years and years) and beg to get into the business communication class. If I had to write a memo, I didn't want to embarrass myself. With several assignment redos I managed to pull a B grade.

That said, with all of a A's and B's it is basically a technical certificate. I don't think it means as much as my son's A's in engineering. I fear though, that my grunt job will be much more plentiful a job to acquire, than a job with a specialized degree. :( I have my fingers crossed for the youth.

sky, I may have said this before (and I'm reminded because we've talked about office jobs before) but I took a bottom of the barrel front-line entry-level 7 buck and fifty an hour job in my current field...some ten years ago, having never done anything quite like it before. So many of the skills I have now I learned on the job, and the opportunities to move up have been great.

If you find a place you'd like to work, get your foot in the door...you never know where it could take you. (And I'm biased but higher education is a great field with a lot of administrative opportunities.)

If there's a buck to be made...
Here's a company that wants to catch cheaters on exams
using statistics...and their own "proprietary methods".

NY Times
By TRIP GABRIEL
Published: December 27, 2010
Cheaters Find an Adversary in Technology

But there's at least one sane voice in the article

I'm not working in higher education, but have followed the grunt path (volunteering in my case) to get a job I know I'll love.
Shame that it's not all that well paid, but at least I know I won't be tempted to drink at work or sit and surf the web (literally all day sometimes) like I have in previous roles.

Now I just need to get my bloody CRB through!
I swaer, no cheque has ever been as eagerly anticipated as this stupid piece of paper.

For sundae girl : Come on! stupid piece of paper, come on!

Shawnee, I whole heartedly agree!

National Standardized testing and much of the issues surrounding it.

http://www.ets.org/Media/Research/pdf/PICNATEDSTAND.pdf

Page 22 shows much of the problems have not gone away. It all depends on where you go to school.

In the end it was really all about the money.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/21/ed...standards.html

No, the money was an incentive (bribe), to get their ass in gear. It was still about trying to improve the drop out rate, and graduate kids that don't sign their name with an X.

Then why penalize states who don't adopt their standards?

Penalize? Nobody's getting less. The ones that work harder get an extra bonus. Isn't that the suppose to be the American way?

Other states with different standards got no money. Only if they entered the Obama Game of Chance would they be rewarded if they won.

Refusing incentive money is losing. I don't know why any school district would choose not to upgrade standards.

They had no problem downgrading standards to get a pass with Bush's No Child Left Behind. Just saying,

No, other states with different standards got money, lots of federal money. What they didn't get, was a bonus for trying harder, because they didn't try harder. We've upped our standards, up yours.:p:

:) I see your point.... up yours too. :D

Sometimes on links to documents, I'm willing to read it all, or at least skim through.
This link is beyond my current level of volunteer-ism, even for that single page (22).

Where are the Cliffnotes for that tome ? ;)

Cliffnotes are the reason education is failing. :p:

I'm taken by how a news item or TV show pops up just when you're involved in some topic or other.

Given this thread, here's (another ?) article that seems to touch on all the issues
we hear about when it comes to education of children,
from how to teach them to qualifications and pay of teachers.

NY Times
Shanghai Schools’ Approach Pushes Students to Top of Tests

And there are differences of opinion as to the "outcomes" of these teaching methods:

As to the teachers qualifications and pay...

Garbage In Garbage Out:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/12/30/vir....html?hpt=Sbin