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tw 05-13-2001 08:51 PM

Education reform was one of George Jr's most prominent campaign promises. More examples of an intelligent president at work - from The Economist of 12 May 2001:

""... the Boston bruiser is crushing the life out of the faux Texan preppie. Mr Kennedy, the senior Democrat on the Senate committee that supervises education, has delivered an impressive triple. He has ripped every radical idea out of Mr Bush's education bill. He has changed the focus of the education debate from reform to resources. And he has done all this in the cuddly name of bipartisanship. Mr Kennedy has not done it alone. The education bill has been mauled by the House as well as the Senate, and by some Republican as well as by Democrats. But Mr Kennedy has led the assault so effectively that he is already being treated as the de facto leader of the opposition. ...
Not content with turning a Republican bill into a Democratic one, Mr Kennedy is now accusing the White House of trying to "nickel and dime children's ecuation". Never mind that America spends significantly more per head on education than other advanced countries while producing mediocre results. Never mind Mr Bush plans to increase spending on schools. Let's stop nickel-and-diming children's education.
Why has Mr Bush let himself be outmanoeuvred? Wan't education suppose to be his signature issue? And didn't he get plenty of experience dealing with wily Democrats in Texas?
The simple answer lies in the delicate balance of power in the Senate. It has hardly helped that the Republican chairman of the relevant Senate committee, James Jeffores, is more interested in his pet spending project - handicapped children - than in the general structure of education. Mr Bush is also hampered by the fact that most Republicans are privately uneasy about his willingness to extend the federal government's role in education. ...
... The harsh truth is that most Republican parents are fairly content with their local schools.""




elSicomoro 05-13-2001 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tw
(from the Economist) "The harsh truth is that most Republican parents are fairly content with their local schools."
So for a minute, let's just assume that most of these Republican parents live in the suburbs...or in Phoenix. So, my question is, how much longer will there be contentment? Trouble is spreading to the suburbs...look at where all the troubles have occurred: a suburb of Denver, 2 suburbs of San Diego, and the middle of podunk freakin nowhere--Paducah (Trust me, it IS podunk.). Look at the bomb threats over in the Pottstown schools as well.

Not to mention, let's look at it from an urban sprawl view: Migration is spreading outward to the exoburbs (?). This may cause two potential situations: 1) As people migrate further out, there will be no kids to fill all the schools built during the boom. Or 2) People with lower incomes will be able move to these burbs, property values and income will decrease, and the schools will become not so good.

So it would seem, at least in my opinion, that Bush simply makes all this nice-nice talk about education to try and soothe inner-city folk. Not to mention, some folks are still a bit too worried about Big Brother.

jaguar 05-14-2001 03:58 AM

*LAUGHZ
you think BUSH has any say on policy/anyhtign tha matters *laughz.
as if.

But more to the point, the biggest problem is simply not in schools, its social, the growing ich/poor gap and family breakdown i cite as two of the biggest. Hell im' no supporter of the hwole nuclear family bulllshit(i live in a single parent household) but whats happening is jsut scary, parents have no time for kids, family anyhting, and its mostly coz the fabled idea that were working less hours is BULLSHIT. De-unionisation, and the m\push to squeese more work out of less workers is putting the stress onto familys and marriges. While the corperations responsible still apy near-nothing tax while taking suck a great toll on society
</rant>

serge 05-14-2001 06:26 AM

http://hammer.prohosting.com/~phclub/here4.jpg

tw 05-16-2001 05:47 PM

Re: More Presidential Leadership
 
The IISS is a European political think tank whose recent report was reported on Radio Netherlands. The short is that the US and Europe are on a direct collision course over most disagreements as a direct consequence of this new right wing administration. Again, as it is always cited everywhere outside the US - George Jr's. global warming theories are top of the list for a major falling out between the US and Europe. We could be talking trade wars. Also listed is something that myopic, blood thirsty, right wing extremist, "bomb the into the stone age" hawks advocate. A need to conduct all future military campaignes without the approval of or support of any allies. The destruction of so many treaties that built the end of the Cold war was also cited.

Also cited by the report is an incoherent and ill conceived Asia foreign policy. Cited specifically is George Jr's mishandling of both China and N Korea.

We have the right wing extremists we deserve. It will be interesting how far this president can destroy foreign relations before he learns the names of a few world leaders.

jaguar 05-17-2001 04:02 AM

How true, once again tw you have very nicely outlined the issue, well informed as ever =)

By the time he does learn leaders names, and the basics of forgin policy (don't annoy all your allies, listen to allies, don'tbe such an arragant bastard and think you run the world) america is going to be almost wihtout close allies, good.
Very good.
I cannot wait.
May the EU, Autralia, Japan and other allies take over the pivotal role of the US in a spriit of democracy and fairness, looking forward, not burying thier heads in the sand(global warming).
I have been glad to witnees a few great development in the EU over recent years, the blocking of some GM crops, stronger privicy laws, Koyoto, etcetc while the US ahs sliped further backward....

elSicomoro 05-17-2001 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
May the EU, Autralia, Japan and other allies take over the pivotal role of the US in a spriit of democracy and fairness, looking forward, not burying thier heads in the sand(global warming).
I have been glad to witnees a few great development in the EU over recent years, the blocking of some GM crops, stronger privicy laws, Koyoto, etcetc while the US ahs sliped further backward....

I don't think anyone will touch the US on power anytime soon. Not the EU, not Australia...and Japan had their chance and they fell flat.

Actually, Australia COULD...if you all bred like rabbits and made more people. ;-) The Germans and Japanese may make better cars, the Finns make a better cell phone, but as a whole, the US probably still outpaces the world in new technology and education.

After all, why would all these people come from all over the world to our universities, only to kick us with our own technology. ;-)

Undertoad 05-17-2001 07:56 PM

I think the phrase for the Aussies should be "breed like toads".

tw 05-18-2001 03:02 AM

Breed like..
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tony Shepps
I think the phrase for the Aussies should be "breed like toads".
And how many breeds has the toad bred. Just asking.

tw 05-18-2001 03:45 AM

Re: More Presidential Leadership
 
Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
I have been glad to witnees a few great development in the EU over recent years, the blocking of some GM crops, stronger privicy laws, Koyoto, etcetc while the US ahs sliped further backward....
Europe's credibility has been far from responsible during the days of Clinton. Its just that Bush is so mediocre that Europe looks better.

While they complain (emotionally rather than logically) about GM foods, lets see:
1) Coke poisons kids in France and Belgium, blames separate European sources for the same poisoning from two different plants, and Europe says - OK, be nice.
2) Milosevik runs rampant murdering people in Slovenia, Coatia and Bosnia while Europe does absolutely nothing.
3) Netherland troops march thousands of refugees into the arms of Serbs, who in turn do exactly what everyone expected - slaughter them. Europe does nothing. Netherlands claims ignorance.
4) After a massive massacre in the streets of Sreven - whatever that town was - live before TV cameras - only then does Clinton decide that July that not one European rulers has any balls. He decides it is time for the US to take charge. Because of Clinton, the Brits (who were crying to do this years ago) and the French rapid reaction force move in to be the (I think this is an exact quote) "worst mother-fucker on the block". Only then did the Bosnia massacre and concentration camps end.
5) Again Clinton / US forsaw all other coming problems and put troops into Albania, Macedonia (despite a self serving, screw everyone else attitude from Greece), and coordinated with (forgot the name) province next to Kosovo. Ironically one of the few European nations with balls to support Clinton, besides Britian, was Turkey and Italy.
6) So incapable is the European military (that still practices cold war training) that the only support Germany could provide was motor transport and bridge building type military. Even Bulgaria and Rumania did more to stop the slaughter in Kosovo than Greece - and the other European NATO allies stayed silent as to their uncooperation - they would not even try to enforce an embargo.
7) Canada has so almost totaly exhausted their military in peacekeeping that most every soldier has already been on at least three separate peacekeeping missions. What has France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, etc done? Aussies should feel proud in that they may do more for international peace (per capita and per GDP) than France.
8) While demanding that the US stop being an unfair trader, Europe has some of the most government subsidized farming in world. In response, the US subsidizes America famers for exports - only to make European farming exports difficult. This was after Europe reneigned on a deal to drop all agri-subsidies. The trade war has hurt Australia, Argentina, etc. The trade war continued over restricting Central American bananas that are superior to European government approved 'tiny' bananas and banning any American crop that 'might' have GM. Of course hybrid farming is also GM, but that is not feared because the process existed prevously.
9) Europe has no food standard protection authorities. Hoof and Mouth disease was active in India, Korea, and most of the middle east for two years - and Europe did little to protect or even to immunize. Then when hoof and mouth was crossing from Britian into main Europe, they still refused to immunize - until eventually is was even appearing in Germany. As for Mad Cow, only the British government has any science knowledge of the disease since the Brits refused to share information with anyone else - including the US - and then declared the disease solved.

We must give Europe credit. They have a 50 years program necessary to merge so many nations into one. This is not an easy time for a united Europe to address a major crisis since they have so many of their own between so many primadonna leaders. Rather they are doing quite well as so many Europeans countries are actively looking out for and campaigning often in the interest of their neighbors. It is rather a sparkling example of how to cooperate when only 40 and 60 years ago, they were so viciously warring or threatening one another.

But Europe has not been a sparkling example of world leadership. Furthermore, I expect them to be brided into accepting the destruction of cold war disarmament treaties. Some say Germans and Brits are already conceding.

elSicomoro 05-18-2001 11:00 PM

Comparing Europe and the US is like comparing apples and oranges. In addition to what tw pointed out, my personal opinion is that Europe can politely kiss our asses. Granted, we are a horribly arrogant country. And we have been chided over the World Court, Kyoto, etc. But who is responsible for widespread expansion of slavery before America began? Who held control of most of Africa until the mid-20th century? Where did the World Wars start?

Both sides are guilty of one thing or another, but Europe seems to be getting a US-style attitude that is already irritating to see on this side of the Atlantic. It's bad enough to have one country act like a turd, but for 15 with the power of one to do the same thing is damn near petty.

jaguar 05-19-2001 01:03 AM

Yes, true TW, there have been alot of stupidities, internal bickering, and beaucrasy, butits still the best example of agroup of countries working togethr on a (fairly) level plain, you must also remember that eastern europe is not part of the EU, and they as much aspossible try to simply shut it, and allits problem off, which is a very stupid solution but....

Sycmore, i was refering to the EU, not jsut 'europe' as in the body formed in the latter half of last centuary (i stil find it odd to say that) not the actions of individual countries before that.

Btw, tw, how the hell are you so well informed about so many issues, you must be one hell of a news junkie =)

elSicomoro 05-19-2001 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
Sycmore, i was refering to the EU, not jsut 'europe' as in the body formed in the latter half of last centuary (i stil find it odd to say that) not the actions of individual countries before that.
I understand, but the EU is still composed of those individual nations. Hell, they can't even all agree on the Euro. The EU is becoming highly self-righteous, just like the US. It's sickening...

tw 05-19-2001 05:23 PM

Re: More Presidential Leadership
 
Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
Btw, tw, how the hell are you so well informed about so many issues, you must be one hell of a news junkie =)
I avoid useless fiction. Most library books are useless fiction - why do they waste so much money on so much trash? There is very little useful fiction - where the author first performs years of research before writing. That is what Alex Haley (Airport, Wheels, Roots, etc) did before he wrote. That is what Micheal Crichton (spelling?) of ER, etc did. Ditto for Tom Adams. But well over 90% of fiction is crap written for minds that worship urban legends.

Also I ignored the dingbat and her peers at local news stations such as Channel 6 Action News. They just had a big fire in Bridgeport. Can anyone tell me why it was so out of control or what started it?

I can suggest why it was out of control. No sooner did I enter that building than I was looking for emergency exit signs. It was a fire disaster just waiting to happen. No sprinklers. Wood floors. The only thing safe was brick lined stairways of concrete and steel. So where are the facts from those trash newshypsters? Did they every report any real news? While so many were wasting time watching so much hype, I was learning about another stupid move by our mentally challenged President.

BTW, if it is not obvious - I don't waste time with Time. I read what Time Magazine should have been - The Economist.

tw 05-19-2001 05:56 PM

Re: More Presidential Leadership
 
Europe really needs to learn from Canada and Australia about world responsibility. BTW, New Zealand is also acting more in a self serving attitude as of late.

Britian sends the meanest Brigade into Sierra Leone when the UN peace keepers looked like they might fold and become prisoners. Norway has been active, although less productive, in addressing world problems. The Netherlands, Turkey, and Italy are very willing to pitch in, but only if inspired by US pressure. France will only contribute when it involves one of their ex-colonies. Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, and Greece do nothing. IOW Europe does have a self-righteous attitude - but most of Europe does not have the right to have that attitude since so few contribute, by action, to solving problems like the British do. In Europe, the British are the only benchmark for how a responsible first world country should accept its responsibilities.

If a suicide bomber had blown up in Belgrade, and Serbs then attacked Bosnia with planes to punish everyone related to that suicide bomber - well Europe would have sat on their heals doing nothing until a Clinton US said "this is unacceptable". Oh.... that is exactly what happened.

We have the exact same situation in the Middle East - where a dichead, like Milosevik, is doing everything he can to create violence (his history is create wars so that he can take oppurtunities - he almost even created WWIII) and encouraging more violence so to justify his expansion of that holocaust. The motherfucker and his silent partners are trying to exterminate the Palestinians. Europe, as usual, just sits on its hands. Now we have a president that endorses that extermination - as long as the Israelis don't create concentrations camps. The dichead is currently testing to see how far he can push before even the mental midget Bush is appauled.

A responsible Europe would rise up in utter dismay at the extermination of Palestinians. An international peacekeeping force is desperately required where dicatorial racist promoters advocate the extermination of their own people. But Europe is still too self-righteous and without the balls to act. They can do that when a mental midget US president says "Don't worry be happy and we will protect you" and while US citizens work more hours every year to protect those Europeans.

Without an intelligent US President, the world will just sit on its hands and let another Rwanda or Kosovo happen. Europe at least should have the balls, responsibility, and ethical backbone to at least say something. Europe remains quiet because Europe only criticizes when it is safe to do so - or when told to by the US.

Undertoad 05-19-2001 09:16 PM

tw: <i>Ditto for Tom Adams.</i>

You mean Scott Adams - Dilbert?

jaguar 05-19-2001 11:38 PM

Hmm, ok tw, personally I do read Time magazine, lol, mostly coz a: I live in Australia and I can't get the economist, b: there is no Australian substitute. Admittedly it’s biased as hell, skips facts etc, but it still does open my eyes to a lot of issues I would otherwise be entirely ignorant about.

Media must cater for the masses and all the masses want is that a: a fire happened, b: is anyone we know dead, c: some pretty pictures. Sad as it is that’s the case. You have in some ways a similar mentality to me and guys I know in elite military units, when you go somewhere you check out everything, everyone, notice everything, it can be very useful.

I have Israeli friends, some of which are joining the army over there in the near future. The currant situation is tit for tat, and they are happy to admit that 'the killing of 2 14y.o Israeli boys will not go unpunished. SO the next day, 5 Palestinian cops suddenly get shots by Israeli troops thinking they are force 17. BOTH sides have to stop, but Arafat cannot control most/all of the terrorist groups who carry out these attacks. I entirely agree Sharon is scum, and should be anywhere but in power, but frankly, if I was a Jew, after persecution by pretty much everyone, I’d want some land to myself too.

As for Europe taking a lead, hopefully the new ham-fisted bush administration will force them to, because he’s just so damn stupid, to go along with him would be political suicide. Yes, sadly Europe has a lot of trouble agreeing on anything, but they do eventually get things done (euro?), but fast response to events is not their strongest point. Maybe if the long-held idea of a single European army came along there would be a much faster response.

The other reason you often get a slow response to anything with politicians is because in the end what matter to them is if they get re-elected, you need someone who is very sure of his position (Clinton) to make bold moves, most of the time.

Plato himself argued this one, because democratically elected leaders have limited terms, they will not undertake politically risky or LONG TERM SOLUTIONS (global warming, transport alternatives, etc) because they won't be around to reap the political benefits. He proposed a system of a benevolent dictator, personally I don’t subscribe to that line but I just thought I’d mention that.

tw 05-21-2001 02:20 AM

Re: More Presidential Leadership
 
Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
Hmm, ok tw, personally I do read Time magazine, lol, mostly coz a: I live in Australia and I can't get the economist, b: there is no Australian substitute.
The Economist is sold everywhere in the world. Just from my copy, 2.70 British Pounds, 3,000 Chilean pesos, 7.50 Guyanian dollars. Annual subscription in Australia - 268 dollars Australian.

jaguar 05-21-2001 07:58 AM

Hmmm, ill have to look into that, i can't say i've heard much about it before, but if it comes with your reccomendadtion =)
TIME just gets alot more publicity i guess =)
Il but an issue next tiem im in a newsagency, thanks.

elSicomoro 05-21-2001 04:05 PM

I used to use the Economist when I was in college for research. Not bad...a tad dry though.

Lord knows how many periodicals I discovered when I went to college...

tw 05-21-2001 10:58 PM

Re: More Presidential Leadership
 
Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
Hmmm, ill have to look into that, i can't say i've heard much about it before, but if it comes with your reccomendadtion =)
TIME just gets alot more publicity i guess =)
Il but an issue next tiem im in a newsagency, thanks.
The Economist can be dry - but if I was ever going to learn, I must read everything. How many read anything about the World Bank or IMF? Dry? Yes - which is why it was so easy to incite a lot of poorly educated college kids into Seattle riots. The rioter totally confused me since what they were rioting for is also what those organizations had already concluded internally. But then again, I read this news a year before the riotes in The Economist. Those riots only reminded me how few facts are known by the so many who have so many opinions.

There was once a bookstore in the KoP mall called Gene's that was more often frequented by the upper class. The Economist was not in racks with other magazines, but in a pile next to a cash register. It is never found in bookstores frequented by the computer techs or BA graduates. More often it is found in bookstores frequented by MAs, MS, and the other higher eductated.

IOW it is everywhere in the world - but not well known to 'local TV news' fans.

One cover page article in Time was "Titanic". Why is a silly fiction movie so important as to be a cover story? Demonstrates the intelligent level that Time addresses. Would Time ever discuss the Super Collider vs. the junk science called the International Space Station? Of course not. The Super Collider addressed science problems. The ISS was hype. Time is into hype - cannot be concerned with what really makes society work. It is why readers of Time rarely know of Clayton Christenson or Paul Romer - and yet these men have pushed out the envelope - while Time was discussing a movie called 'Titantic'.

elSicomoro 05-21-2001 11:19 PM

Re: Re: More Presidential Leadership
 
[quote]Originally posted by tw
Quote:

More often it is found in bookstores frequented by MAs, MS, and the other higher eductated.
The last time I saw it was while I was in college in St. Louis--over 2 years ago. Lord knows we don't carry it at my store.

Quote:

One cover page article in Time was "Titanic". Why is a silly fiction movie so important as to be a cover story? Demonstrates the intelligent level that Time addresses. Would Time ever discuss the Super Collider vs. the junk science called the International Space Station? Of course not. The Super Collider addressed science problems. The ISS was hype. Time is into hype - cannot be concerned with what really makes society work. It is why readers of Time rarely know of Clayton Christenson or Paul Romer - and yet these men have pushed out the envelope - while Time was discussing a movie called 'Titantic'.
It's mere prerogative then. "Titanic," although it had a cheesy-ass storyline, was generally a well-produced and well-acted film. It also held historical significance. We all grew up hearing about the Titanic, but seeing the movie actually put more things into perspective...at least for me. Not to mention, making the movie was a story in and of itself.

I would then say that Time actually DOES reflect our society...at least what society wants. It offers some news, some pictures, and colored graphs. It's simplified national news for people who either don't have time or don't want to make time to read. American society seems to want everything quick and simple...voila!

tw 05-21-2001 11:23 PM

Re: More Presidential Leadership
 
Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
Plato himself argued this one, because democratically elected leaders have limited terms, they will not undertake politically risky or LONG TERM SOLUTIONS (global warming, transport alternatives, etc) because they won't be around to reap the political benefits. He proposed a system of a benevolent dictator, personally I don’t subscribe to that line but I just thought I’d mention that.
Effective democratic leaders empower the source of all solutions. Dictators are only effective as limited solutions to finite problems.

Take a recent study of Nazi Germany, rumored back then to be more productive than Britian during WWII. True if you consider the potential size of Germany's economy. However the study demonstrates that Germany was so dictatorial that production abilities were wasted. Numbers suggest that Germany's economy was limited to about 70% of its production abilities because of its dictatorial government.

Why would this be true? Plato based his conclusions on a society called status quo. Unfortunately, society does not advance by making the same things. It is what economists and political scientists, even by WWII, did not fully appreciate. A dictatorial society can address a problem known to that dictator. But since new problems continue to arise, that society must wait for the next dictator to grow up so that he can address the next problem? It is why dicatorial societies can advance. The top man cannot empower the little people to solve a problem he does not understand.

Society can no longer wait for its dicators to learn of problems, then grow up to be a dictators. Society must have today's problem solved tomorrow. That cannot happen in a dictator soceity when the top man does not empower problem solvers and does not understand how the work gets done.

Plato's solution assumed a dictator knew everything in a world that did not change. Plato's flaw was not in his logic, but in his assumptions of what makes a world grow.

jaguar 05-22-2001 05:21 AM

True, it’s a pity we can't install some kind of long-term-solution/short term unpopular-brownie-points system though. I mean I just see it so often, short term answers to big, long term problems, particularly transportation, in Melbourne, we recently build a huge new roadway costing billions while he public transport system remains chronicly under funded. I can't help imagine what would happen if that money was spent on public transport, new trains, more trains, more trains on time, more trams, more busses, LESS CARS...*Sighs*
Yes u can argue ppl would not use it anyway, but in its currant state I only use it because I cannot drive.


tw 05-22-2001 05:35 PM

Re: More Presidential Leadership
 
Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
I can't help imagine what would happen if that money was spent on public transport, new trains, more trains, more trains on time, more trams, more busses, LESS CARS...*
BTW, does Australia still use different gauge trains in different parts of the country? Previously trains would have to be unloaded, then reloaded on different gauge rail cars because the country used three different gauge railroads. Does that problem still exist?

jaguar 05-22-2001 06:12 PM

Yes, it does, there as been a whole 2 million or so allocated to work on this problem, the major lines i (think) are now all standardised but there is still alot of problems.


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