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-   -   Fight the Grammer Nazis (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=23454)

xoxoxoBruce 08-29-2010 09:10 PM

Fight the Grammer Nazis
 
Fake language rules can come from respected sources, but that’s no reason to believe them.

None are? None is? They’re both correct.

The girl that I marry. No, it doesn’t have to be whom I marry.

Since you asked. It’s totally legit to use since for because, unless it would cause ambiguity.

Healthy choices. Many of us have been taught that it’s healthy people but healthful foods.

“Till” was there first. In recent decades, somebody launched the mischievous rumor that till is a substandard form of until.

Verbing nouns.

“And” can start a sentence. So can But and However.

Misspelled is not misused. Errors like “faster then a speeding bullet” and “taking a lot of flack” are mistakes in spelling, not comprehension.

The adverb can be “wrong.”

You only live once. Spotting “misplacements” of only is a hobby for some picky readers — they’d rewrite that sentence as “you live only once,” so there’s no way to misinterpret it.

linkhttp://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/id..._rules/?page=1

Clodfobble 08-29-2010 09:27 PM

Quote:

“Till” was there first. In recent decades, somebody launched the mischievous rumor that till is a substandard form of until. In fact, till is ancient English, and until was formed by combining on and till. If you want to disparage a member of this family, go with ’til, the entirely superfluous 20th-century addition.
That's fascinating! I had no idea.

Yznhymr 08-29-2010 09:27 PM

Gag me with a spoon.

Juniper 08-30-2010 03:08 AM

I never criticize anyone's spelling, punctuation or grammar in discussion board posts or e-mails because the Law of Karma (or something) says that if someone does, he or she is virtually guaranteed to have one of the aforementioned issues with his own post or e-mail.

It's happened to me. Ugh. So embarrassing. I had a brain fart and forgot how to spell "mischievous." It did not go uncorrected.

Besides, it's just rude. People tend to do this when they can't think of any other way to respond in a debate. "Blah blah." "Oh yeah? Well, you can't spell."

The language is evolving. You can tell the difference between someone who knows the rules and breaks them intentionally, for some effect, and someone who just doesn't get it. Or doesn't care.

The only ones I really criticize are the ones who don't care.

casimendocina 08-30-2010 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juniper (Post 679302)

1. Besides, it's just rude. People tend to do this when they can't think of any other way to respond in a debate. "Blah blah." "Oh yeah? Well, you can't spell."

2. The language is evolving. You can tell the difference between someone who knows the rules and breaks them intentionally, for some effect, and someone who just doesn't get it. Or doesn't care.

So true for both points.

Rhianne 08-30-2010 08:52 AM

Gr8 thread.

xoxoxoBruce 08-30-2010 03:28 PM

Gr8? Gr8? What kind of grammer/spelling is that! :lol2:

Happy Monkey 08-30-2010 03:35 PM

Grammar.

xoxoxoBruce 08-30-2010 03:40 PM

In only 7 posts. :haha:

Happy Monkey 08-30-2010 03:44 PM

I held off for a while.

But please note:
Quote:

Misspelled is not misused. Errors like “faster then a speeding bullet” and “taking a lot of flack” are mistakes in spelling, not comprehension.
I was correcting spelling, not comprehension.

Sundae 08-30-2010 03:51 PM

I don't criticise. At least I don't think I do.
Sometimes an intelligent person obviously misuses a phrase, word, spelling etc in which case I'll point it out. Not as a criticism, but because I'm sure they'd prefer to know. IRL I'll pick people up on pronunciation. I hope I don't come across as mean, but myself I'd rather be told. Of course there are many typos, slip ups or things that just don't matter and I don't want to ally myself with people that froth at the mouth about those.

Some things I've learned are cultural differences, some are regional. Again - better that I know that.

Do I judge people on their spelling and the writen presentation of their posts? Yes, I do, to an extent. I was going to write sorry, but I'm not sorry. I do not hold anyone to a particularly high standard - my grammar and spelling are workaday. And I know my punctuation is pretty appalling - I consult the internet when writing formally.

But anyone who consistently uses text abbrevs or regularly misuses homonyms will give me a certain opinion about their communication skills.

I'm ashamed to say I didn't see anything wrong in "faster than a speeding bullet", so I'd probably irritate purists myself. I know my enunciation would make experts faint, anyway. And I'd not like UG to parse my posts :)

I suppose it depends on your definition of Grammar Nazi.
I'll not be breaking down any bookcases any time soon anyway.

Gravdigr 08-30-2010 04:09 PM

I don't be gonna touch dis thread here.

Juniper 08-30-2010 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl (Post 679434)
I don't criticise. At least I don't think I do.

Some things I've learned are cultural differences, some are regional. Again - better that I know that.

Exactly. And at the risk of belaboring the obvious, "criticize" is the American spelling. :) Or, shall I say, belabouring the obvious? :3eye:

Which reminds me. A few years ago I wrote an article for a Canadian magazine. I asked the editor, should I try to write it in "Canadian-ese?" Meaning, things like labour, colour, flavour, criticise, etc.?

She said no, Americans just get it all wrong anyhow. Their editors would fix it right up for me, and she appreciated that at least I knew the difference. :)

Happy Monkey 08-30-2010 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl (Post 679434)
I'm ashamed to say I didn't see anything wrong in "faster than a speeding bullet", so I'd probably irritate purists myself.

Yes you did, subconsciously, because you corrected it when you rewrote it.

Rhianne 08-30-2010 05:30 PM

The processes of putting words together and the words themselves were invented for one purpose – to convey meaning. So long at that’s achieved I don’t mind people breaking the rules at all – in fact I’m all for it.

squirell nutkin 08-30-2010 06:24 PM

You rebel, you.

Urbane Guerrilla 08-31-2010 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 679272)
Fake language rules can come from respected sources, but that’s no reason to believe them.

For instance, your occasional tries at telling me what is not a valid word. I can't recall any of these instances where a sufficiently complete dictionary did not support my usage, rather than yours. At least of late you've given that game up. Yes, I regard a Collegiate Dictionary as inadequate for college-level writing. I would put the peak of its usefulness somewhere about junior high, and for the writer not frightfully ambitious to grow into a fierce wild Thesaurus spp. at that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 679272)
Misspelled is not misused. Errors like “faster then a speeding bullet” and “taking a lot of flack” are mistakes in spelling, not comprehension.

I'd take issue with this too. The miscomprehending substitution of homonyms and near-homonyms for the correct terms is a variation of the hobson-jobson, one done within a language rather than between two -- and it can induce an error of comprehension. That this is so very much associated with words of similar if not identical sound suggests the error arrives through the poorly functioning or inattentive ear, aggravated with a lack of reading well-edited material that might steer one to better understanding. It would remove such infelicities as "spitting image" and "one in the same."

TEAL -- plucking away greengrocers' apostrophes... a/k/a prepostrophes.

Urbane Guerrilla 08-31-2010 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl (Post 679434)
And I'd not like UG to parse my posts :)

Mwahahahaha!!1 I'm a regular parsing Pharisee, I am.

While many's the dictionary that blesses "belabor the obvious," I far prefer "labor the obvious." To belabor is to abuse or to batter. Consider the related phrase "labor the point" -- any point so treated gets bent over and rapidly loses any resemblance to a point, IMHO. It no longer points in the direction it should. A point that is merely labored does not suffer this dismal fate. As a crummy substitute, it suffers tendentious tediousness. Perhaps I should unyoke this weary point from the plow of metaphor and rest it from its labor.:rolleyes:

xoxoxoBruce 08-31-2010 03:46 AM

There we have it, UG, the best reason in the world to not let your children be grammar nazis.

monster 08-31-2010 08:41 PM

Urban Gorilla

http://www.ilovenewyork.se/images/kingkong_1933.jpg

squirell nutkin 09-01-2010 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla (Post 679527)
It would remove such infelicities as "spitting image" and "one in the same."

"One and the same" but "spitting image" I'd always heard was a corruption of "spirit and image"

What have you heard or read?

Juniper 09-01-2010 01:10 PM

Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be linguists.

Gravdigr 09-02-2010 01:36 AM

1 Attachment(s)
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xoxoxoBruce 09-02-2010 05:37 AM

A cackle of mad scientists.:lol2:

Gravdigr 09-02-2010 03:26 PM

The Borg.:borg:

Urbane Guerrilla 09-02-2010 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squirell nutkin (Post 679801)
"One and the same" but "spitting image" I'd always heard was a corruption of "spirit and image"

What have you heard or read?

Or "spit and image," which sounds like an intermediate step. See the oldfashioned phrase "the spit of him," i.e., a very strong resemblance.

But the two get regrettably miswritten.

Bruce, how 'bout you give my ass a nice deep baiser? I do not constitute a reason not to be a Grammar Nazi, and you can decide to stop being a putz just any second now. My being blessed with a respect for the English language is not grounds for you giving me a hard time. Had you a full measure of sense, you'd know that much. As it is...

squirell nutkin 09-02-2010 08:33 PM

I was just reading a 1930s book on farming and they talked about a "spit" of dirt meaning a shovelful that is as thick, wide, and deep as the blade.

Gravdigr 09-03-2010 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla (Post 680212)
Or "spit and image," which sounds like an intermediate step. See the oldfashioned phrase "the spit of him," i.e., a very strong resemblance.

But the two get regrettably miswritten.

Bruce, how 'bout you give my ass a nice deep baiser? I do not constitute a reason not to be a Grammar Nazi, and you can decide to stop being a putz just any second now. My being blessed with a respect for the English language is not grounds for you giving me a hard time. Had you a full measure of sense, you'd know that much. As it is...

If you have such respect for the English language, why don't you use it, instead of talking like a goddamned frog?

classicman 09-03-2010 02:07 PM

BWAHAHAHAHAHA - digr - thats too funny - no really - TOO funny!

ZenGum 09-03-2010 07:32 PM

And learn how to spell labour, too! :p:

Some grammar rules are important, they keep meaning clear and unambiguous. Some are not - I am happy to boldly split an infinitive, and I hold that a preposition is a word you can end a sentence with.

Urbane Guerrilla 09-04-2010 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravdigr (Post 680384)
If you have such respect for the English language, why don't you use it, instead of talking like a goddamned frog?

I am using English more fully than you. If I write in the English of an educated man, where's the harm in you reading educated English, hm? I don't imagine there's a downside.

French is only one of my languages. I was sufficiently educated to have some.

In the future, never ask me if I'll let you be a stupe, okay? I always answer "Don't you fucking dare." I don't allow stupid, and I disparage those that do.

monster 09-04-2010 09:15 AM

Actually, you write the English of a pretentious twat. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but if we're calling a spade a spade....

squirell nutkin 09-04-2010 11:02 AM

Fight The Power

1989 the number another summer (get down)
Sound of the funky drummer
Music hittin' your heart cause I know you got sould
(Brothers and sisters, hey)
Listen if you're missin' y'all
Swingin' while I'm singin'
Givin' whatcha gettin'
Knowin' what I know
While the Black bands sweatin'
And the rhythm rhymes rollin'
Got to give us what we want
Gotta give us what we need
Our freedom of speech is freedom or death
We got to fight the powers that be
Lemme hear you say
Fight the power

Chorus

As the rhythm designed to bounce
What counts is that the rhymes
Designed to fill your mind
Now that you've realized the prides arrived
We got to pump the stuff to make us tough
from the heart
It's a start, a work of art
To revolutionize make a change nothin's strange
People, people we are the same
No we're not the same
Cause we don't know the game
What we need is awareness, we can't get careless
You say what is this?
My beloved lets get down to business
Mental self defensive fitness
(Yo) bum rush the show
You gotta go for what you know
Make everybody see, in order to fight the powers that be
Lemme hear you say...
Fight the Power

Chorus

Elvis was a hero to most
But he never meant shit to me you see
Straight up racist that sucker was
Simple and plain
Mother fuck him and John Wayne
Cause I'm Black and I'm proud
I'm ready and hyped plus I'm amped
Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps
Sample a look back you look and find
Nothing but rednecks for 400 years if you check
Don't worry be happy
Was a number one jam
Damn if I say it you can slap me right here
(Get it) lets get this party started right
Right on, c'mon
What we got to say
Power to the people no delay
To make everybody see
In order to fight the powers that be

(Fight the Power)

BigV 09-04-2010 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla (Post 680490)
I am using English more fully than you. If I write in the English of an educated man, where's the harm in you reading educated English, hm? I don't imagine there's a downside.

French is only one of my languages. I was sufficiently educated to have some.

In the future, never ask me if I'll let you be a stupe, okay? I always answer "Don't you fucking dare." I don't allow stupid, and I disparage those that do.

Using English more fully has very little to do with actual communication. So what. As for harm, the harm is to the success of the communication. Talk or write all you want, if you're unable to get your ideas across and to understand the ideas of those talking and writing to you, your communication has been harmed. That is the downside.

As for your permission for another person's thoughts and actions and behaviors, when you say shit like "I won't allow it", you just crack me up. The complete ridiculousness of such hubris makes most of the rest of what you say equally unbelievable.

Gravdigr 09-04-2010 03:39 PM

Oh noes, I done gone 'n' showed mah lak of intelijuns.

ZenGum 09-04-2010 11:23 PM

Doan wurry, we is give y'awl a edumacashun.

Gravdigr 09-05-2010 01:33 AM

I can haz ejuhmuhkayshun?

xoxoxoBruce 09-05-2010 01:39 AM

UG is a spade!

ZenGum 09-05-2010 01:52 AM

That's why he digs the cellar...

and can handle a blade...


and is so trenchant in his beliefs ...

Gravdigr 09-05-2010 12:52 PM

anacoluthia \an-uh-kuh-LOO-thee-uh\, noun:

Lack of grammatical sequence or coherence, esp. in a sentence.

BigV 09-05-2010 12:55 PM

A gold star for you!

Gravdigr 09-05-2010 04:15 PM

Yay me!

squirell nutkin 09-06-2010 02:10 PM

Wait, You know Anna Coluthia? She was my high school sweetheart.

Lamplighter 09-06-2010 02:37 PM

Gee ! You knew Ann Coulter as a kid !

squirell nutkin 09-06-2010 02:43 PM

hahah! twin daughters!

Urbane Guerrilla 09-10-2010 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV (Post 680634)
Using English more fully has very little to do with actual communication. So what. As for harm, the harm is to the success of the communication. Talk or write all you want, if you're unable to get your ideas across and to understand the ideas of those talking and writing to you, your communication has been harmed. That is the downside.

As for your permission for another person's thoughts and actions and behaviors, when you say shit like "I won't allow it", you just crack me up. The complete ridiculousness of such hubris makes most of the rest of what you say equally unbelievable.

I will not allow you to be stupid. Stupid people cannot function as people should function. V, you are being a shmuck. I do not dumb down for you, for UT, for God Almighty. That is simply too far beneath me. If it is not beneath you, all I can say is your intellectual standards aren't high enough.

Read good writing; think smart thoughts. The man who complains at this has no part with me. Do not beg me to descend to whatever level of mediocrity you find comfortable. It is too cramped for me.

Undertoad 09-10-2010 11:02 AM

That's very smart, and not at all wise.

glatt 09-10-2010 11:14 AM

To his credit, he starts off forbidding behavior of someone who live thousands of miles away, and then a bit later he admits that all he can really do is say their standards are too low. So he does show awareness of his impotence.

monster 09-10-2010 10:44 PM

UG is impotent? Can he get it up?

Urbane Guerrilla 09-18-2010 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 681630)
That's very smart, and not at all wise.

It is not wise to accept the too-cramped, either. Too limiting.

And too-limited seems something you'd like for me.

Shame on you, then.

Rise to my level even if you don't or can't believe. You will like it here.

zippyt 09-18-2010 12:57 AM

Need I Say Any Thing in this Thread ??

monster 09-18-2010 12:58 AM

UG, You remind me of a homeless beggar who believes he has more freedom than the average Joe because he has no mortgage and no employer. I'm glad you enjoy your posts.

monster 09-18-2010 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippyt (Post 683147)
Need I Say Any Thing in this Thread ??

nope. little debate that yer gramer is afuckingtrocious or that you're far more understandable and well liked the UGh.

HungLikeJesus 09-18-2010 01:03 AM

zippy's grammar is fine. He just writes with an accent.

zippyt 09-18-2010 01:08 AM

zippy's grammar is fine. He just writes with an accent.

HA HA !!


Gotz to lurve the Celler !!!!

Urbane Guerrilla 09-18-2010 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster (Post 683148)
UG, You remind me of a homeless beggar who believes he has more freedom than the average Joe because he has no mortgage and no employer. I'm glad you enjoy your posts.

Welllllll. Pissy tonight, aren't we? Looking for excuses, are we? Who searches for excuses?

"Come, my songs, let us sing of perfection; we shall get ourselves rather disliked." -- Pound

Griff 09-18-2010 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus (Post 683150)
zippy's grammar is fine. He just writes with an accent.

:)

Spexxvet 09-18-2010 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 681630)
That's very smart, and not at all wise.

Excuse me... did you mean to say "Bill Clinton won the Bosnian War "?

classicman 09-18-2010 12:59 PM

Hey I was trying to do a little research on some past US engagements. Does anyone here know by chance who won the war in Bosnia?

Pete Zicato 09-20-2010 03:30 PM

http://bigeyedeer.files.wordpress.co...if?w=500&h=402


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