The Roads Must Roll!
 

Q: How to roll the roads better?

Q2: Think roads, and for that matter passenger rail, are necessarily and of right the purview of the State, and the Federal? Or is that just habit?

John Stossel

A Libertarian forum turned me on to this. Freesteader.com

LA Times article from 2002:

It would seem this is the source of the problem: a mismade rule. This is the kind of thing that has often gotten in the way of a commonsense remedy.

I might be able to agree in this particular instance, but private businesses are rarely willing to compete with governmental entities on an even footing, so non-compete clauses abound in contracts.
Even physicians bemoan the patients that are "pulled out of their practices" by the same medical school and hospital where they received their own training !

Also, $1 / year for the right of way on the median was a major governmental give-away after doing all the prior bonding, development, engineering, land procurement and basic construction of the existing freeways. If a Libertarian principle is to hold true, that private enterprise would have had to do all that work at it's own expense.

All this is beside the point of toll-roads and congestion-pricing.
Toll roads are not new, but private ownership certainly is.
Sports stadiums are good examples of how the public can be beaten up for the benefit of private owners.

There were lots of early privately-owned toll roads in the US; see for example http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/K...wski.Turnpikes.

Seems to me, the people who have a choice of when to travel, would be more reticent of gridlock than a $1 toll.

I took this thread to be about a more a "Libertarian" way of doing things.
That is, private ownership of roads and not so much a debate about toll roads and congestion pricing.
But so far as fees go...

On the 10-mile stretch on Hwy 91, current tolls range from $1.30 - $9.80.
It also has a minimum fine of $341 for not having sufficient funds in your account to cover your tolls.
Even banks don't charge overdraft fees that high...

So what does "Congestion pricing" mean... it means that as the prices go higher it tends to push "excess" vehicles OFF the toll way and back on to regular roads. That is, the effect is to artificially increase and perpetuate even more congestion on the non-toll roads.

This is opposed to charging the same fee all the time which would have the effect of always diluting the congestion and increasing traffic on the express (toll) portions of road, up to the point where market forces would level off the traffic volumes.

Granted some people have more $ than they need so fees vs time won't matter to them.

Unfortunately, Oregon does not seem to have made it into your linked article.

But in terms of absolute safety and necessity, and in reference to UG's OP about "Libertarian" values,
the Barlow Trail is prized because it was so important to the settling of the Oregon Territory.
It ran from The Dalles around the south side of Mt Hood to Oregon City
The Barlow Road, built by Sam Barlow in 1846 with governmental approval, was entirely paid for by private money ($4,000), labor, and enterprise.
Tolls were about $5 / wagon and often paid with cattle, chickens, etc.
Barlow was licensed to collect tolls for only 2 years.

On a completely personal note, our family drives this same route frequently on picnics and fishing trips to the nearby rivers.
Even today it is almost impossible for us to believe they were able to find their way thru these forests and to build a wagon trail using the tools of their day.

WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE

You have died of dysentery.

I deny your diagnosis and defy the diagnosticator!! :3eye:

If I cut the tags off this thread will I be subject to prosecution?

For years, I thought the name of that game was Organ Trail. Because everyone got sick on it, clearly.

Pretty interesting.

I wonder if they abandoned the munitions in those 45 wagons? :eek3:

Or just lots of hits with the Mattress Police.

The Roads Must Roll
 

Not all of them. :headshake:

Minor point. That sign was posted by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) which is under the Department of the Interior. The BLM is a rather minor sub-component of the "Federal Government." The BLM is notoriously underfunded and we out West fondly call it the Bureau of Land Mis-Management.

BLM land, unlike the Forest Service or the National Park system, is seldom patrolled by ANYONE. I prefer BLM land for my camping expeditions because I can do anything I want there, unlike the FS and the National Parks which have strict rules which are enforced. On the BLM I can drive off road, set up a semi-permanent camp for 3 months or more, cut all the firewood I want and then some and generally commit any atrocity I please (although I am not given to committing atrocities in general - other than the ones I mentioned ;)).

Senator Blowhard should be working on getting more funding to allow the BLM the personnel to do oversight of public lands and enforce what few rules it does have.

That sign is the BLM's way of CYA. Also, I have noticed that ALL federal land agencies tend to post ridiculous signs, treating the general public as if we are a bunch of idiots ( a few of us aren't).

Some of my fav's:

:eek:DO NOT JUMP UP AND DOWN ON THE ARCHES!

:eek:IN THE EVENT OF FLOOD CLIMB TO HIGHER GROUND!

:eek:COUGAR SIGHTING! DO NOT ALLOW YOUR SMALL CHILD OR PET TO GO UNATTENDED IN PARK!

:eek:DO NOT CLIMB TO HIGH POINTS IN THUNDER STORMS! (I don't know what you are supposed to do if the thunder storm produces a flood).

:eek:WARNING! ROUGH ROAD DO NOT ATTEMPT WITHOUT 4WD! (on a well mannered dirt road that a low rider could have driven on)

and my personal fav which I guess is more of a command than a warning:

TAKE PICTURES HERE!

As far as the national land management agencies are concerned, we should just all stay home.

That was his point, the Feds aren't holding up their end.;)