Car needs fixing
 

Car need replacing really, but that's not going to happen in the near future.

Problem is all the interior lights stay on all of the time. No, it's not a faulty connection on any of the doors -they stay on even when the override switch is turned off. We often use that switch when we want to leave the car doors open and preserve the battery and/or not attract bugs. But now the stupid lights are on when I'm driving and when it's parked and locked... 24/7. For now, beest has disabled each one individually, but some hint as to where to look for the root of the problem would be nice, please. It's a 2001 Windstar.

My parents have a similar problem with a Windstar. It's not 24/7, but they take a very long time to turn off.

Try this

Thanks, but as already stated, it is not related to the door switches.

there is a Timed relay that is supposed to turn the lights Off ( After a while ) if a door is Left open , so it doesn't drain yer battery
There was on All our caravans at least
shouldn't be That expensive a thingee , $50 or less i would think

Yeah, there is, but the cut off should be instant when the door is closed and the engine started, so that is bypassed? In which case that's not the issue either. Or are those part of the same unit?

You might try calling the cartalk guys.

Where the hell is Jim - he should know someone!
JIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!! !! !!

This is a mom-van. Jim's way too cool to be seen discussing it! :lol:

No interior lights at night is teh suxxors. Maybe I should leave it out of the garage and hope for a write-off through hail damage?

Monnie If the relay is stuck ON it could be the problem , Or in terms of Logic it could be stuck Off

Monnie so sounds like a cute name for a vaginal condition....

I get ya, will have the son-of-banana-lady check it out, thanks ....or maybe I'll even do it myself (mutter mumble....)

Autogremlins. Call in a witch doctor.

You mean a switch doctor?

Have you checked the switch you use to turn your interior lights on?

Yes. The same switch dims and turns on off the dash lights when the headlights are on. That is still doable, so it's not stuck in the on position somewhere in there. Unless the dash lights and interiors are operated in parallel from that switch and the circuit to the interiors has the fault/stuck in on thing. But the switch itself is still working.

Nobody can answer your question without the wiring diagram. Any answer without that is only wild speculation.

What complicates a solution is the electronic control. Without knowing where that connects in the circuit, then no useful answer is possible.

Which Question? You did not quote a question.

Here's a question: Are we any better off for that post? I think not. Thanks for playing State the Obvious without being Helpful. While you didn't win, you did score two bonus prizes for Repetition and Patronization. A reminder that contestants are only allowed to play a maximum number of six times and you have now exceded that quota.

p.s. I like wild speculation. AKA creative thinking.

guessing is FUN!

then again, at lest he didn't call you monnie...

that's b/c a monnie is a specific electrical component of cars and fsm forbid inacuracy (It regulates the outside air through the fan when AC is on, and increases flow and moisture when nasty diseases are detected.

But he's still right, this isn't old school, dome light/light switch/door ground switches. It's a complex system of switches, relays and probably several modules (computers) involved. Without a wiring diagram, or at least a description of how the system works, there is no way to even begin to test for a solution.

Oh, and wire that used to carry just power, now carry power and signals, a lot of the time.

Yes, which is why monster might try (if she hasn't already) disconnecting then reconnecting the positive battery cable to see if a power interuption restores default software settings. It won't help a hardware problem; but, it's easy enough to do and about the worst that can happen is that she'll have to reset the interior's clock. :2cents:

That's possible, sometimes these modules get confused and need a trip to the wood shed.

Of course you are - if you were smart or nice. Where do you get the solution? Search the internet for that wiring diagram. Buy one in an auto parts store. Get it from the publisher (listed in the owner's manual). Or take the car to someone who has that diagram.

It was not obvious. If your car had a different system, then the answer is easy. Would be the same design that existed in all cars for 50 years. No wiring diagram needed - obviously. But yours is different. Your's requires a wiring diagram. This paragraph was not included in that post because I thought your were smart. Sorry for making an obvious mistake. Next time I will dumb it down for you.

First, do not disconnect the positive cable. Good workmanship dictates disconnecting the negative cable.

Second, that can create other problems. For example, if she did not have the radio code, then the radio would no longer work. And radio presets may be lost. Other problems can also be created by that solution that typically would not solve anything.

Third, better is to identify the fuse that powers that circuit. But if the computer needs resetting, well, that is a function that already exists inside that computer; called a watchdog timer.

This type of problem cannot be solved without a wiring diagram due to the unique nature of that design. What existed even 50 years ago does not exist inside that car.

What xoxoxoBruce has described is often known as a CAN network. Designed by Intel long before the IBM PC existed. The design featured an 8051 single chip computer that was standard in all PC keyboards. It also existed long before the first IBM PC. Now one wire can replace tens or 100 wires. Fixing that door light is virtually impossible without the wiring diagram.

Not so, disconnecting the battery for 15 minutes will sometimes cause a network that is out of step to rest itself when power is restored. I see this frequently on automotive forums. I know it's not logical and a bit of a mystery as to why it works, but it costs nothing to try. Sure, the radio presets may be lost, but that's something anyone can remedy. It won't cause any further harm to the vehicle, if it did, anyone that has a battery die would be screwed.

Some radios have anti-theft codes that turn the radio into a brick if you remove it from a car. When power is cut to those radios, you have to enter the secret code into them to get them to work again. The dealer may be able to help you get that secret code, or they may not. When we bought our current car years ago, we had the option of arming this anti-theft code in our radio. We didn't, but a lot of people do.

There's a chance that Monster's car has such a radio. If she bought it new, she should know. If it was used, she wouldn't know.

I know about this issue because I had a dispute with an ebay seller who sold me a radio that has been disabled. I think he had no idea he was selling me a brick, but it was a pain for both of us.

That only happens when the radio is removed with power on. You don't have to have the dealer enter a secret code, every time you change the battery, or perform the many other service procedures that require disconnecting the battery.

Radio does not know whether power was disconnected at its connector. Or disconnected at the battery.

Almost nobody knows what is in his car. What was once standared for 50 years is not, for example, in Monster's car. Informed layman do not disconnect the battery to reset something that should automatically reset itself. No risk. No complications. No confusion. No surprises. It's not your grandfather's car anymore. Speculation is no longer an option.

Theft proof radios do, even with the radio off and the key off, the radio is still connected to the computer and seeing power, that's how it holds it's presets. When the radio loses power the computer will lock it up. When power is restored the computer knows the codes to enable the radio again. Some high-end radios lock up every time the ignition is locked, relying on the computer to unlock it.

We have owned the vehicle from new, I have no idea if the radio codes is there are any.

I had been wondering about disconnecting the battery, on a 'it's no cost and easy to try, what harm can it do' theory.

I guess the radio would be a problem.

Would pulling the fuse to that circuit be same as disconnecting the battery?

No, the radio would not be a problem. Worst case, you may lose the station presets, but you can easily reprogram them. We got off on a tangent, involving moving a radio from one car to another. Sorry if it confused you.

After Googling for the problem, you can no longer convince me that a bad door switch is not causing this.

Perhaps the override switch is faulty too, but everyone who complains about this problem says the override switch does not affect the permanently turned-on light.

Many people say that once the driver's door is considered open, you'll get the "beep beep beep" indicator while you're driving. Until you hit 20 mph. Then once you slow to below 20 mph, it starts up again.

Sounds like DC's Metrorail, except with the Metro, the train won't budge if it thinks a door is open. Thus, all the "please don't lean on the doors" announcements.

yebbut, the reason I say it's not that -apart from it logically not being that- is it was the first thing we checked because it's the solution that works for everyone else. This time we get to be special. lucky us.

Maybe it's not the switch, maybe the wiring to one of the doors has failed.

What we really need is a wiring diagram...

I'll wire your diagram.....

What we really need is a new car

The door ajar light acts correctly.

If you are listenig to the radio and take out the key, the radio stays on until you open the door, I used this as a test of the mechanical switch that detects whether any door is open or closed and it all checked out OK, if you leave a door open the lights go off eventually anyway.
Something has decided against logic to keep the lights full on no matter what, a simple relay would have been nice, but I'm guessing we're SOL there.
The fuse diagram lists a front electronics module, a rear electronics module and a powertrain module.

... like a stuck relay?

you're like a stuck record, that's what. We didn't actually rule that out if you read back, although it makes logical nonsense because you can override the relay with the switch to the left of the console -and that's still working. So even if it was stuck, we should still be able to override it. If this is a wiring issue, then the guy (yup, has to be male) who designed it should be shot..... but we're still investigating the relay issue

What I love about the cellar is the wealth, variety and depth of expert knowledge there is here. What I hate about the cellar is the need for some of the people in possession of that knowledge to patronize and assume idiot-level intelligence in the questioner. And hypocrites. Didn't you just get snitty with tw for making the same point twice, CM?

We can google. We can try what google suggests. We can use other search engines. We have friends in the car industry, Beest works in the car industry. We're smart enough to do plenty of research on the obvious and even the not-so-frickin-obvious before asking The Cellar. We don't tend to bother the genius that lurks here unless the obvious has failed. It didn't fucking work this time. So we expanded our horizons. Don't post snippets of the first google search you did, it's insulting.

Thanks for the suggestions beyond that -we're still working on them, we'll keep you posted if you care.

Well I took it upon myself to ask a friend who is an electrical engineer. After giving him what little info I could, he repeatedly came back to the same conclusion... either the computer or a relay. Sorry I tried to help. Cannot imagine why I tried to do that for you. It won't happen again.

Monster, it might have been helpful if you'd stated in the first post what you had tried/discovered already. We were starting from zero when you apparently were already on step three or four.

So, which maintenance manual, I see Haynes, which was the gold standard in the UK, and Chiltons, any others, any preference?

I've used Haynes and Chilton. I believe it was Chilton when I repaired the cruise control on one of my cars. The diagrams were excellent.

Ford's manual for that vehicle would be the gold standard. They are available from HelmInc.com.

Do you mean the technicians workshop manual, somewhat overkill for the lightweight home dabbler like myself, especially at $180.

Yes that's the one. I have them for every car I've owned, because that's the definitive source. You might be able to find the wiring diagram(s) you need online, or at the library. But automotive wiring has gotten so complicated, because of it's dependence on modules (computers), you'll probably find there are several circuits involved. That link that UT posted, describes the interrelation of the components pretty well, and some possible solutions to try, if you want to wing it.

Those manuals are only abridged copies of what the automaker already printed (sold by Helms). Generally, the wiring diagrams in the base shop manual are poor. Often wiring diagrams are sold in a separate manual. Those manuals cost a little more - and provide significantly more information.

Sometimes people sell CDs with copies from that wiring diagram on Ebay. Or a CD version is available for the European version of that model.

Any repair shop has that same manual on DVDs that also includes the latest Service Bulletins.

Service Bulletins are also available for free from some County Libraries.

But there really is no replacement for a wiring diagram from the automaker and often sold by Helms.