One for Lookout123: Win by more than 5 points = you lose
 

http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/06...a-league-says/


"chumps rejoice as champs taste the bitter sting of defeat."

Reasonable ends ... stupid means.

Great lessons that'll teach the kids - not.

I agree!
I think it should be the same idea in hockey ...maybe make it 7 or something.
Its unsportsmanlike to demolish a weaker opponent.
Secure the win and relax a little bit.
Especially on an international level.
I see no greater disgrace than a team having secured the win, and going out for more.
Such attitudes should be met with physical fight.
to see a limit implimented as law is a great suprise, and hopefully it will expand all the way up to the professional level.

Eek: life isn't always fair. Sports teach you that important lesson.

When I played real sports, if we got way ahead, the coach would put in the second and third strings...if they could've thrown the cheerleaders on the court they would have. I agree about sportsmanship, I was taught that lesson, too. I had my ass handed to me on the court and on the track, and I graciously lost, just as I graciously, sometimes, won.

It's time we learned: not EVERYONE is good at sports, nor do they have to be. I want a trophy and an A in chemistry: that bitch who always got an A in chemistry wasn't being fair to me...she should have quit at a B, so I would have felt better about myself.

Ugh...

eta: there was a "run rule" in baseball and softball...don't remember what it was exactly but once a team was ahead by a jazillion runs they could call the game: I believe both coaches amicably agreed to this arrangement.

The slaughter rule. For baseball in my state, the game was called after a team was up by ten runs in the 5th inning. This did not include playoff games. My junior year, we lost in the second round 35-1. The slaughter rule was extended to playoffs the next year.

hehehe. Something to laugh about later.

I'm guessing this rule is because some coaches just don't have the integrity to do this. It's a shame when you feel the need to legislate good sportsmanship. I reckon it will ionly serve to make those teams even less sportsmanlike, because they just don't get it and now they have something to grind their axe on.

If you get absolutely trounced, by the opposing team... it'll make you re-think your tactics, your player-choices, and your entire training regime... How is that a bad thing?

Sure, it's rather poor play, for a team to obliterate another, but it does HELP the other team, too.

Sportsmanship is not just about graciously winning, or losing, it's about accepting the game for what it is, accepting the other team's abilities, good, AND bad, for what they are... How is it "good sportsmanship" to tell the superior team that they'll lose, if they play to the best of their abilities?

Nanny state... For shame. Kids are stronger and more able to cope with things, than we make them out to be... and if we continue to coddle them, to "protect them" from everything "bad" in the world, how will they ever grow up, how will they ever be able to survive, alone?

On top of al the bad messages this sends to the kids... I wonder how long it will take for a team to be down 4-0 to then put the ball into their own net "accidentally" Well thats 5-0! We win :greenface :eyebrow: :mad:

Excellent idea... of course, if they did this, before the end of the game, well - The other team would start shooting own-goals, too, to avoid losing the game; they'd just ensure it was one less goal, than the opposing team.

Soon enough, you'd have entire teams of people, fighting to get the ball back to THEIR net, instead of their opponent's net.

Anarchy will ensue. Then death. Then the end of the world.

Just in time for 2012. Crap. We're screwed... and it's all your fault, classicman, for giving people this idea!

In a fight, and sports are ritualized fights, when the guy who is clearly winning asks, "Had enough?" the guy who is getting his ass kicked can say "Uncle" and the fight is over.

That might be appropriate like the run rule or slaughter rule that Shawnee and Hawkeye mention.

To penalize someone for winning as being unsportsmanlike is stupid. The other team keeps coming back out on the field means they haven't given up. And in some cases, maybe that is a great lesson to learn: Not giving up even when you haven't got a snowflake's chance in hell.

My younger brother addressed exactly that when I discussed this with my family today. His oldest daughter is out of his coaching realm, but he was keeping the records when a mom came up to the coach and asked him why he was keeping the daughter in the game when she was walking everyone. These girls are 9 years old. Well, the coach kept this girl in the game and she ended the game with two great strike-outs.

My bro was like "you get stronger from adversity."

His coaching style is to teach the basics, whether it is baseball or softball or basketball, and encourage the kids to have fun.

It's a sport, not a hobby. Play hard or get off the field.

Not necessarily. I played baseball for a good number of years and I can say that once a team gets hot, there is almost nothing the coach can do to keep their team from scoring. In the 35-1 game I mentioned, the backups were put in early and they did just as well as the starters. We went through five pitchers and only one of them was able to do somewhat decently. We had no confidence. They were dripping confidence. Their coach could have only prevented the score by putting players in positions they usually don't play (very bad sportsmanship in baseball) and literally told their players to not hit the ball (something you don't do).

In high school baseball, and I'm guessing softball too, big score differences are going to happen and most of the time it isn't the coach's fault or bad sportsmanship on their part. Also, many losing coaches will not "give up" the game as well. That is why the slaughter rule exists. To prevent 5 hour long games that are clearly one sided.


Saying that, I strongly disagree with the five run rule. Different circumstances.

Trying to fix the point spread.

apples and oranges. Soccer games are a fixed length and there are plenty of sporting ways to keep the game going and interesting and help improve the kids skills without racking up huge score differences.

Buuuuullllshit is all I've gotta say.

You play to win while developing players. I've coached plenty of games where we easily could have won by 20+ points but chose a different route. In league play I typically put restrictions on the players if we are up by more than 4 or 5 points. Lil Lookout has played almost entire games only being allowed to score with his left foot or his head, or having 3 complete passes before a shot on goal, or any of a dozen different challenges that will keep the fight going but even it up a little. I will NEVER tell a child not to score but I will absolutely positively make it harder for them to do so.

One of my adult leagues adopted a new rule after some blowout games last year. If your team is losing by 6 points you get to add a player to the field. If you go down by 8 another player can come on. This rule promptly became known as the "bitch rule" and jeers of "BITCH!" would follow every single time the extra players touched the ball. The rule still stands, but teams don't add players anymore.

Sports, like life, are unfair. Suck it up and learn from it.

How about:
The team that is up by 5 goals loses a player.
Lose a player for every five goals you are up.
Get players back if the other team catches up.

How about:

You win the game or you lose the game. At the next practice, you work on the skills you are lacking, to try to win the next game, or at least improve.

Maybe my experiences and the experiences I hear from my brothers were unusual. Our coaches were good, didn't try to kill a bunch of kids for some sort of pride in themselves.

Usually, it's the parents you gotta watch out for.

Farto parents are no worse than Burpo parents.

...in accordance with the prophecy.

In school I was on the 2nd team in netball.
I was furious - I should have been on the 1st team, but the best player in the team (in the school!) played in MY position, so I was relegated to reserve for the important matches, and only guaranteed a place when other 2nd teams were available to play.

One game, we were being trounced by another team. At half time we found out (I don't remember how) that the school we were playing only had one team. We were playing their 1st team! No wonder we were losing. Pretty much all of us gave up at that point. Of course I didn't, I came back stronger, harder, better in order to improve myself... No, sorry. I sulked and gave up as much or even more than the rest of them.

The minibus drive home was one of the worst trips of my life. To this date I can raise a blush just thinking about the talk we got from our coach. And she was right. SHAME ON US for our behaviour. It wasn't quite the turnaround that a Hollywood story would provide, but from that day on there was a definite change in team morale and determination, and in general the more pressure we were under the better we performed from then on.

Generalising here, I think there is an endemic attitude in children to give up on things you are not good at. Exceptional children learn to discipline themselves, to be their own coaches, to strive to succeed. But the majority - like me - need to be taught how to fight against the odds. You don't have to teach children "It's not the winning it's the taking part" you just need to teach them "It's not the winning it's giving it your complete all, especially when you're losing".

That's what I think anyway.
And this silly ruling (OT) is wrong.

Great find Classic. Even removing the political applications of the story it is a very accurate description of parenting today.

We don't all have to parent in the same way to be good parents. I find myself somewhere in the middle of the two extremes here, but thinking about it, society needs some super-aggressive/competitive people, some bigger-picture team players and some whose competitiveness depends on the scenario. Just like it is now. Otherwise we'd just be breeding a generation of automatons and humanity dies.

The political aspect is bullshit. It might be an accurate observation in this instance, but the fact is
has IMHO, this has little to do with political affiliation.

did I say it did?

This story falls along class boundaries, working class versus upper-middle class, not political boundaries.

No, I was making a general observation, building on what you did say. Settle down.

My kids are older now, but I remember when they were young and were involved in competitive team sports. They played in both rec and travel sports when they earned it. Sometimes they didn't.

The recreational sports like the YMCA had already been converted to the everyone is a winner mentality. That was ok though, cuz those leagues were for anyone to join, learn and participate in a sport for the first time or many times.

However, the teams where the play is competitive and the players have to earn the privilege of playing were still pretty sound. Unfortunately this mentality had begun to permeate the league, at least here locally. I recall a team meeting where a couple parents were upset that their child was not getting as much time nor playing the position they wanted them to as much as a couple other players. They actually wanted each kid to play every position and play equal amounts of time each game. In a rec league thats fine, but not in a travel environment.

Their kids were not very good and played in EVERY GAME no matter what the score. If we were ahead more, they played more. If not, then not as much. We fielded a pretty good team and most all the boys ended up as friends - right through high school.

After the games we tried to do something as a group regardless of winning or losing. Pizza, ice cream... As a group we would review the game - the good the bad & the ugly. Then we were done with it. The kids enjoyed it and were well aware of the scores whether they won or lost. They also knew that there was a bigger picture - the playoffs and bragging rights. The short term goals and long term goals were intertwined. I think that is a great life lesson.

These kids knew when they got their asses handed to them that they typically were beaten by a better team and looked forward to trying again next time. Rivalries were created between teams and bonds were built between players. It was good for all of them.

Maybe we should look at it as payback for when they dumbed down academics so the jocks could get into college?

:lol:

Lil Lookout's new club naturally fits in with the way I view sports.

1) After every practice each kid gets a written report card based on objective guidelines. That report card will determine what happens with their playing time. They are just kids so a single bad practice doesn't mean anything but the trends and patterns do. I know one parent who left the club last year because their child didn't get their "fair share" of playing time. Of course, that kid is a spoiled little shit who refuses to take direction and doesn't feel the need to work as a part of a team. Funny that, actions and attitudes have consequences.

2) Every kid has a homework assignment for the week (watch a specific game, player, event or read a specific book). If the kid doesn't do it their playing time is going to be decreased.

3) While the team and coach show up to win every single game, a loss doesn't matter if the kids learn something along the way. I've seen this coach sub out the kid who just scored because he should have passed. I've seen this coach stop two of his players during a game to explain why what they are doing isn't working. Winning is important but not nearly as important as how you play the game.

4) Parents have to sign contracts detailing expected behavior. Parents cheer for the TEAM and will never ever direct the players to shoot, pass, run, etc. I know a family who was removed from the team. There were multiple attempts to change habits but in the end they sat the whole family down and told the boy how much they enjoyed him as a person and a player and explained that while his play was excellent he was being removed from the team because his mother refused to follow the guidelines she had agreed to. They wished him the best of luck and refunded his remaining training fees.

We should teach our kids how to always strive for the win and how to gracefully accept defeat when their best efforts just aren't good enough. Sports are more than just a game, they are a learning opportunity. Actions and attitudes have consequences.

Excellent

The Spain v Switzerland game today showed EXACTLY what so many parents don't get about the games their kids play. Spain is a FAR superior team with better players pretty much across the board. I don't know anyone who honestly thought the Swiss would beat them. The Swiss players could have bitched and moaned about their awful luck in having to face the european champions and just played not to lose. Instead they went out, gave it everything they had, played to their strengths and walked away with all 3 points.

The better team lost because the less talented team played the game. Even if they'd lost they'd have been able to walk away knowing they had done their best against arguably the most talented team in the world.

Great job!