Students Kicked Off Campus for Wearing American Flag Tees
 

This is the first time I think I agreed with a district on anything.

That's fucked up.

In my high school they wouldn't have been allowed to wear bandannas anyway.

Around their necks, on just on their heads?

it sounds like the kids DID band together in an act to defy and possibly insult fellow students... because why else would five kids all choose the same exact day to wear pretty much the same thing? Either way, I think it's ridiculous they were told to go home, especially since they live in the US. If this was a Mexican Campus, and they were wearing US Flag apparel on Cinco de Mayo, I could understand... but it wasn't. If the Hispanic populace is so upset and outraged to be around the US flag, maybe they should reconsider where they live?

ah, yes. The dangerous bandanna. The nuns at my high school said we wore them to advertise the many drugs we had for sale - a bandanna in the back pocket meant pot, a bandanna tied to a purse handle meant speed and a bandanna around your knee (you heard me) meant sopors. The nuns also subscribed to the belief that girls who wore black eyeliner were "easy."

They were smart, those nuns.



Crazy - but smart.

What if they were wearing American flag burkas?

that would be totally ok. I'm wearing mine right now!

I used to wear orange on St. Patty's Day.

My mother insisted on it.


It does sound like the boys did it on purpose, which is not cool, imo

Cooler than those wetbacks wearing the Mexican flag on our holidays, which by the way, are real holidays in this country.

the behavior is unacceptable regardless who does it. of course.

These kids were looking for attention and they got it. It was an act of defiance and they are using "American pride" as their defense. Typical.

Puts the school district in a catch 22 as well. Its probably a very touchy issue there and any action, or lack of action, taken by the school would most likely blow back up in their face.

I doubt that, the article didn't mention anything about the Mexicans protesting or even being offended. This is just the school administration flexing their muscles, in the name of politically correct.

And yet they are disrespecting the flag by wearing it as clothing.

So what? The action they did take was inappropriate. I hope the kids sue the school for kicking them off campus.

This is only the latest of political correctness gone wrong in the US...

Especially when the school says it would have been OK on any other day.

The bandanas may have been a violation of the National Flag Act, but I have not seen pictures of them so until we do we can't really say if that was "disrespecting" of the flag in a more legal sense.

How bout this one? Is this a violation or is just his spelling?

You tell me.

"No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations."
36 USC 10 §176(j)

"The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way."
36 USC 10 §176 (e)

"The flag should never be used as wearing apparel..."
36 USC 10 §176 (d)

I'm not a flag waving rah rah kind of guy, but if these people pretend to be, then they should follow the rules.

One could argue that a bandana or t-shirt printed with a flag design is not "The flag".

I don't care either way myself... but I think the school fucked up.

Jinx beat me to it.
They were not wearing the flag - they were wearing T-shirts. Totally different issue.
What if they were using pencils with the flag on them in class? How about wearing a tie, a pin, socks, glasses... the list is virtually endless.

What is "a flag?"

You can get into the whole legal definition, but the bottom line is that the flag is a symbol of our country. These guys wore these shirts for the symbolic reasons. They meant for them to be flags.

Yes I agree with you that they were wearing flag stuff for symbolic purposes, and those purposes are being debated with regards to political correctness/immigration/tolerance/etc.... I don't agree that they were wearing and therefore being disrespectful to The Flag.

"The Flag" means a real flag made and printed to be a flag, not a picture of the flag printed on T-shirts or otherwise.

We'll have to disagree on that point. Your link doesn't say what a flag is, or how a flag is constructed, it says what a flag looks like. You can make a flag intended for flying by printing the design on a sheet of polyester or by sewing strips of cotton fabric together and embroidering the stars. You can print one on paper and glue it to a stick to wave in your hand. You can enamel one onto metal to wear as a pin. You can put it on an iron-on patch to apply to a uniform. How is silk screening one onto a t-shirt in the proper proportions suddenly not a flag?

Damn it. I didn't want to have this conversation. I really don't give a shit.

:lol:

Yeah, we're still disagreeing. I think it's a symbol of a symbol... no one does or is expected to maintain their flag t-shirt or pin to the same standards as an actual flag. It's ok if they get dirty and worn or touch the ground etc.. no one would be bothered by that. And ever since the popularity of Tommy Hilfiger, who doesn't have some form of flag clothing or something. Holding these boys to a different standard is nitpicking imo.

Would it be appropriate to send people away from an event or state building for wearing a tshirt with a mexican or canadian or latvian flag on the 4th of July? I don't think so, so why was this move ok? I think that's what the real debate should be about.
Why would mexicans be offended by american flags or boys showing defiant amercican pride on mexican independence day - the 2 things are just not related unless there is underlying animosity. Why didn't the school address this in some positive way - and try to promote mutual understanding? Why didn't they send the angry mexicans away also, if anyone, instead of just the defiant americans?

i have american flag swim trunks.

HAD> jinx threw them away.

They offended me.

Yes it did.

Depends on the situation. We have no idea who these kids are or how they act. I am probably biased, but I have a feeling these kids are like the kids at my school who drove around with a Confederate flag on their car during Martin Luther King Day.....in Wisconsin.

If these kids just happened to wear a shirt or bandanna with the American flag on it, then the school should have handled it better.

If the kids wore it as a big fuck you to the Mexican American population, which I am assuming it was, then I completely agree with the school's decision. It isn't ideal, but putting myself in their place, I would rather force someone to change their shirt then deal with some race related fights, which I know happen at other places.

I wonder what the reaction would be to flag designed toilet paper. It's not the flag, so nobody would take offense, I'm sure.

I agree with you jinx that the school was foolish here. They shouldn't have done anything and it was almost certainly political correctness run amok. I think that schools have the right to enforce a dress code and even make spur of the moment calls as they see fit in order to keep disruption to a minimum, but I don't think it was warranted here.

Even when people are dicks, you can't take action against them unless they actually do something wrong. This is a cornerstone of a free, law-abiding society. Once you open things up to the vagaries of spur-of-the-moment "feelings" and opinions, you accept that next time they could be coming for YOU if they don't like your attitude about something. That's not America.

You tried to get her to touch the 51st star, didn't you?

This is where we disagree. I am not defending the school just because I disagree with the actions of those students. I am not offended by their actions just as I was not offended when students from my school drove around with a Confederate flag on their car during Martin Luther King Day. It is about preventing something bigger from happening.

I do know places where an act such of this would have resorted in violence and could have brought other students into this as well. There are stupid racist who will do something to "make a statement" and there are stupid people who will use violence to "shut them up". If school's can avoid those situations, within reason, then I agree with the avoidance strategy.

I don't know if this school is such a place. If it is not, then yes, it is a stretch of political correctness. If it is, then I back the school's decision to attempt to avoid violence from breaking out in their school.

Quick reality check: an "act such as this" refers to what?

* Update from the Morgan Hill Unified School District Superintendent

"The Morgan Hill Unified School District does not prohibit nor do we discourage wearing patriotic clothing," Dr. Wesley Smith said in a written statement. "The incident on May 5 at Live Oak High School is extremely unfortunate. While campus safety is our primary concern and administrators made decisions yesterday in an attempt to ensure campus safety, students should not, and will not, be disciplined for wearing patriotic clothing. This matter is under investigation and appropriate action will be taken."

Oh and then this ...

Then don't be offended when someone wears an American flag. :neutral:

How is that a reality check? I am fully aware how stupid it is to resort to violence if you are offended that someone wore an American flag during Cinco de Mayo or if someone wore a Mexican flag during the 4th of July. But, unfortunately, it happens.

As Classicman's post states, that decision was about safety, not about political correctness. Obviously it could still be an overreaction from the school district, but my gut feeling says it is not.

Once again, we don't anything about these students besides that they wear American flags on their clothes every once in a while. They could be legitimate patriotic people, or they could full out white supremacist. We don't know. But from my personal experience, the only people that would think about wearing an American flag during Cinco de Mayo, in a school with a large Hispanic population, then get all defensive about it, are more towards the racist side.

Is there an Italian Polish, Russian, German, Irish or Chinese holiday like this?

I don't believe that at all. This has PC written all over it and its bullshit.

And we don't know anything about the other kids, except they are "Mexican Americans." Are they into human trafficing. prostitution, drugs gun running??? We don't know squat about either side.
Oh and why is it these people can no longer just refer to themselves as Americans? Why is it everytime this crap come up they get to use their "label of choice" F-that.

When I got dressed Wed am, the fact that it was Cinco de Mayo had ZERO to do with my choice of attire. Pretty much like every other day of the year. I understand that my area and this have vastly different cultures and population compositions, but still.

To call these kids out for wearing the US flag on their shirts IN THE US because its another country's holiday is complete and utter BS. That guy should be fired - that is the appropriate action.

Of course there is... we drink beer and wear green. I will be offended if anyone else wears any other color that day... Maybe I should complain to the mayor?

Pie is not Mexican so why would she wear a Mexican flag? (And for the record, jinx only looks Mexican)

On a lighter note . . .
 

now that explains everything! :right:

I wonder which Asst Principal it was - Miguel Rodriguez or Kim Lemos

You didn't answer the question. Again, you said: What is the "act" that you refer to? I think it is important to the realization of a fully formed idea that it's constituent parts can be specified. I propose, unless you have some additional points that you have not brought forward, that you are referring to the act of thoughtcrime.

Your position assumes that you can speak to the internal disposition of an individual, to "see" the bad intent "inside" them.

Again, you can't take action simply because you think someone is being a dick. There has to be a tangible offense.

Do you have anything backing that up or is it just that you want to believe that it is PC bullshit? I personally know of schools where students would have resorted to violence or something else that would have made the situation worse. Does that mean every situation is like that? No. But as we both admit, we have no idea.

I don't really care that much and if you want to agree to disagree thats fine but my point is that there are schools where this would be a legitimate safety issue so its not that outlandish that this is not about political correctness.


Of course we don't. Thats why I never made a definite statement. This could be political correct bullshit or it could be a legitimate safety concern.

Fire a guy every time an administrator makes controversial decision? That's laughable. C'mon, this guy probably would have taken shit no matter what he did. If he let the guys wear the shirt he would have been called culturally insensitive and is not fit to work at school with a large amount of students of Mexican ethnicity.

I realize this is "thoughtcrime" or whatever and I will say this again. I am not offended by it and disagree with those who will resort to violence because of it. But, it does happen. Thats one reason why I don't disagree with the school's decision s to make the kids take off their shirts. If it was another situation, I would be on your side of the argument.

That is not my position. I purposely mentioned that I am not offended by the action. My position is the there is a possibility that the action of wearing a shirt and bandanna with an American flag on it on Cinco de Mayo (is that the answer you were looking for?) could lead to violence and administrators possibility made the decision to avoid violence in their school, which would negatively affect students.

I will say this once again. I am willing to accept that it is political correct bullshit my stance is that this is not the case. We know nothing about the school so there is no possible way to know which is the case.

I agree with you.

IMO, without knowing all the facts or circumstances, this was 5 kids who acted collectively to make a statement on a day they knew might be provocative.

Did the school admin over-react? Perhaps. Is there over-reaction on the side? Perhaps. (Sue the school? On what grounds?)

Well it's high time these fuckers decide whether they are mexicans or Americans.
Oh, and no hyphenated bullshit, get off the fucking fence.

None of that matters and none of that should have played into a decision by the powers that be to ban students of their First Amendment Rights. Fuck who ever disagrees with them. Isn't that the new norm?

First Amendment rights?

Another over reaction, IMO.

Minors have never had absolute First Amendment rights, particularly in a school environment.

Why would you prevent minors from having the same rights as illegal aliens?

This is not a First Amendment issue. You can find school policies and practices in any school in the country that limit the "rights" of students.

Minors do not have an absolute right to freedom of expression. They cant legally express themselves by smoking, driving, etc.......

Since thats the new rule, I pronounce on the 4th of July all "hyphenated-Americans" cannot wear, nor show the pride of the country from which they came... All flags must be taken down and all apparel, toilet paper, buttons bumper stickers ect. must be removed or covered for the entire day. But remember thats racist.
Yes I am taking this point to an extreme, but is there really a difference?

Bravo!

Oh God that is just rich.

BS.

It depends on the state law.

You have been exposed.

You are willing to support Illegal Aliens over legal US Citizens.

Keep digging.

This from the guy who insisted that the Constitution was only for citizens. ;)

When you have a cite that shows that minors, particularly in school settings, have absolute First Amendment rights......please post it.

This might, or might not, have been a bad policy decision by the school. That is a matter of opinion.

It is not a First Amendment issue.

Yea, minors are citizens...

Fuck off.

Anyone who is willing to support the rights of Illegals over US Citizens loses in my book.

Have a great day socialist scumbag.

SO a minor gets arrested. Does he have a right to not answer questions and incriminate himself?

SO a thug 16 yr old has no right to Lawyer up?