Should Kids Be Bribed to Do Well in School?
 

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If it worked it'd be cheaper than welfare and better for the economy.

Gimme 60 bucks and I'll answer this question.

Some parents give their kids an allowance and withhold it if they get out of line. I wasn't one of those kids but we got things like horses and goats. Horses,NICE....the goat,,,not so much.

Heh, my kids only get goats. :)

Worse, his goats only get kids. :D

Well, it does kind of seem strange that we, as adults, expect to be rewarded for our efforts, but we expect kids to just do it for love of doing it.

They grow up in a world where people are financially compensated for their time and efforts, but their own efforts are expected to be given freely.

Just like with the iPods that school district was giving away in another thread... it's not just about bribing the kids.

It's actually a nicely self-selecting group: the parents who don't want their kids to participate in such a bribery program are the parents who are already going to be doing a better job of raising their kids. The parents who think it's a great idea for their kid are the ones who aren't going to be doing a great job anyway, so for those kids it might very well be the most effective option.

There is a matter of that $100,000, or whatever it is these days, it costs to raise the average kid. Doing well in school is their job.

There could also be a third group, parents that are doing a good job but struggling financially, or money hungry, that welcome any input.

Room & Board are not free. Nor are the vacations, movies and most other whims parents pay for today. Kids today don't see that as much as I think those of past generations did. They all but expect mommy & daddy to pay for things.

HA!

I saw your goats. Cream sable and soft. They look like nice goats! and they produce babies which I am sure get lots of ooohs and awws.


This goat produced nothing but mayhem.He was white skinny and liked to knock us down and eat our hair.I don't think my dad liked running outside to save his kids (young at the time )from the man eating goat so the goat got sold. Well he disappeared anyway.:unsure:

All the animals did after awhile until only the horses were left and we were old enough to take care of them ourselves by then and we never minded not getting an allowance or paid.

When I was a kid all of us kids used to pick berries to pay for concert tickets. I'm not sure what kids do these days to earn money.

I don't see a problem with it.

We wanted our oldest to start to read more and so we offered her a nickle for each book she read. She started to really read a ton. So we had to go to a nickle for each three books, then it went to a quarter for 5 books. Eventually she just wanted to read. The money stopped but she never stopped reading. By the time we was tested in HS she was reading at the grade level of a kid in there second year of college. So it worked for that kid. It did not however work for the other two kids. They never wanted to do it, and still do not like to read to this day. The second one who is in college now is figuring out the hard way that he will not pass if he does not read more, a bit late but he is figuring it out. Different things motivates different kids differently, even in the same family.

Bah, they all need a good caning, the snot nosed whippersnappers.

Knowing what I know about you...don't you love learning for the sake of learning? I was never compensated for my efforts as a kid, but there was a fair exchange of "if you did what you were supposed to do, yeah, I guess we can swing some money for you to go to the movies."

My mom did teach me to love learning. We actually talked about that today, my mom and older brother and I. She said "aren't you glad I wanted you to THINK?" My brother and I agreed that a free exchange of thought and ideas is learning, and its own reward.

They didn't have to bribe me to do well. I was happy with the results, and bolstered by the look of pride on my parents' faces when I succeeded.

Now, the looks on their faces when I fucked up? That's another thread! :)

edit: my older brother is quite the conservative, and, well, you know me.

Addendum, just thoughts:

As kids, learning things was coming at full force. There was always something happening that was new.

As adults, we seek learning. We've seen a lot, we've been through a lot. Yet we still crave new knowledge. We take classes or read something or google something or try a new hobby or engage in conversation at a place such as the Cellar.

Great points Shaw, but I'm not convinced that its even many - certainly isn't most. Absolutely some though.

It may work, in terms of getting better grades in tests, making the parents and the schools look good in the eyes of their peers, betters and funding authorities, but is it the sort of learning they need?

If they don't want to do the task, there's something wrong with the task, not the kid.

Agreed.

... or the way the task is presented.

I would consider presentation the part that was wrong in that case.

Anyone belong in a family where there are no encouragements or rewards for doing well but only criticisms when you're not? Or simply ignored. Yeah, sad.

Yes.

yes, I used to. now I belong to a family that does both....

Bribery works really well with Mav, but not Aden. If he doesn't want to do it, he just wont. Mav will do almost anything for money.

I love learning for the sake of it, and I would not have been particularly motivated by financial reward as a kid ... I'm barely motivated by it as an adult :P

I was just pointing out the cultural trappings which surround our youngsters. We live in an intensely money oriented society. We expect children to grow up to appreciate that fact; it's what they will be expected to live by when they grow up.

Money as reward was never a part of my childhood. Pocket money was a factor; but it wasn't tagged to housework or schoolwork or anything like that. It was just something that came around every Friday.

They may well learn for the love of it ...but if they don't, then they're still stuck in the system learning: they don't get a choice in the matter. Some kids aren't motivated by a desire to learn. Or, rather aren't sufficiently motivated. Of course, it helps if stuff comes naturally. It helps if you're good at learning and schoolwork. Not everybody is. We make an equation in life between work and reward; but we expect children to accept that the reward is intrinsic and get on with it. having surrounded them with that message, why not take advantage of the fact that some children have learned rather earlier that work is work and not play ? Once they've reached that conclusion it is very difficult to unlearn it.

*emphasis and depersonalization mine*

NOT PERSONAL.... but is this a trait we want to encourage? Think dealing a little dope in school to make a bit extra..... it's almost legal, right...not like pushing herion...certainly wouldn't do that.... or maybe getting in trouble for a cash bet.... "twenty says you won't squeeze that cheerleader's tits and run away".... well it's not rape and she fancies me anyway and I can take her out with that money....

Interesting article.

According to one of the baby raising gurus, either Sears or Penelope Leach, there is a difference between a bribe and an incentive.

An incentive is a contract, if you do x I will give you y. A bribe is an offer, after the contract to get the other person to fulfill an agreement they already made or complete a task you have already requested without an offer of reward.

"C'mon, you said you'd do x, please do x like you said. I'll give you xyz if you do x..." They had already agreed to do x and were reneging. adding extra rewards is a bribe and supposedly not good for the kid nor for the parents' standing.

It is a little unclear if these kids are being bribed since their participation in school is not voluntary (for the most part).

My kids have yet to be graded for any school work, but I have rewarded them. Most recently for writing assignments - 1 every week, due on Fri for a treat on Sat.

edit: They get paid for housework. $10/week for 1/2 hour a day of me bossing them around. They empty the dishwasher, do laundry, vacuum, clean bathrooms etc etc... Their rooms are horrible though.

I'm curious of the results of the next few years. I wonder how many kept on learning at an accelerated pace, how many went back to their normal "pre-experiment" pace, and how many now expect reward to any work and now move at an even slower pace then before?

I agree with this. Some teachers can easily teach two years of material into one year and some and can barely get a half of year in. Its all about how the material is presented and how well the teacher can gets kids excited about learning the material.

:thumb:

When I wrote that the context I meant was that he'd litterally do the shittiest jobs to earn a dollar. jobs like cleaning out the cats run etc and just the crappy jobs that no one wants to do.

I understand what you're saying with your post, but the flip side of that is that kids learn that if you want something you have to earn it, which is the lesson Mav has learned recently. He wanted an xbox 360 of his own to use, so I told him he could earn it by working, which he did. It took him almost half a year, but as far as I can tell, he thinks it was worth it.

I think there's a difference between kids forming their own - often misguided - ideas of how to get somewhere in life, and being a responsible parent who teaches them that if you want to get to the top you'll have to get your hands dirty first.

Hey little girl, did you hoard all of those nickels yourself?

No, my sister whored half of them.

I would posit you loved learning, not for the sake of it, but for the reward... the stimulation of your imagination and usefulness of the knowledge.
Whereas the money came without effort, every Friday.
If you had to earn the money, you might see the reward of pursuing it, but even now it comes as a result of pursuing what you want, and not it. Most people in the world don't have that option, and need the pursuit of money, or some equivalent, to survive. So it's not necessarily a bad thing to teach the children... in moderation, of course. ;)

Please people .... think of the children!

Mission Hill said it best....

This is following Kevin French buying himself a gift for doing well in school....

Kevin French: I hope you're not like this during the parent/teacher interviews.
Andy French: Hello! Andy French. Couldn't care less about your future.
Kevin French: Mom and Dad said you have to do everything that they do.
Andy French: You don't live with Mom and Dad any more. I paid the electricity bill and I don't get a present.
[lights begin to flicker on and off]

Or you could punish your child by saying that you're going to the movies...only it isn't a movie as much as it is a torturous hour starring Jennifer Aniston and Gerard Butler. Lulz.

That was similar to my original point. The adult world works on a model in which work=wages. Kids may well see a dissonance between that and the expectations put on them by adults.

I realise that actually, kids get all sorts from their parents and that it costs those parents tens of thousands of pounds/dollars to raise them; however, they are not usually a part of that equation. It isn't a negotiation like it is in the adult world. They have no choice but to go through education, and they are expected to throw themselves at it, regardless of whether they actually enjoy it or not; regardless of whether they are in fact willing; and regardless of whether or not they consider it 'work'. They are expected, for the most part, to exert their energies on tasks set them by an adult, for no reward other than which is intrinsic: love of learning/satisfaction/fun etc.

We then expect them to leave that situation and move into the adult world in which few work for free, and work is primarily a negotiated relationship. For some kids (I was one of these) that move is uncomfortable and a world in which work = reward is an alien concept. For others, being held in a situation where their work is expected and demanded but not compensated, may seem unfair and unreasonable when they can see through the window into an adult world, where work is negotiated and compensated.

Those kids who feel the dissonance when they are children may well benefit from being able to engage in an early form of work and reward negotiation.

Hmmm

Maybe they just need books?
 

:applause:

When I was a child, it was do well at school or die. No exceptions. That seemed to work pretty well.

Ha! Yeah...me too. No excuses (except for 8th grade Home Ec. Mom got that there was no way in hell I was going to sew a decent freaking apron and kerchief out of lovely pink gingham. I balanced out my first D with an A in shop.)

All it took was the "look" from Dad. Straightened right up, I did. ;)

You mean discipline, shaw? Surely you jest.
Hell, parents today would be brought up on charges of child abuse if they did 1/2 the things our parent did.
I got broken cutting boards, yardsticks and wooden spoons to prove it.

We giggled at my mom and her yardsticks, acquired at the county fair. Hahahahaa. She never hit us with it, I think she swatted our butts with it once, playing...and it broke! "Just wait til your dad gets home!"

Actually, it took the one act of discipline from my Dad...then all it took was the look.

girl can't help herself. tsk, tsk.




;)

Money motivates me to answer questions. ;)

Cutting board? Damn that will knock your spine out of whack.

I remember it was in the shape of a whale - kinda like this one only it was painted too. We still laugh about that one. It actually was broken on my brother's ass. (He had put his hockey shin pads over his ass cuz he knew what was coming.

:lol2:

That is hilarious!

... yet true. Can you imagine what would happen to a parent that did that today?

I wouldn't be the kid running to school telling everyone my parents abused me, because in the example (sorta) that I cited my 'rents were in charge, I respected and loved them, and I knew they loved me. That act of discipline was followed by a talk, how he didn't want me to lie to him, that they were looking out for my safety. As a headstrong kid, he got my attention, and I understood.

Sigh, I know...I won the parent lottery. I wish all kids could have great 'rents.

Sounds eerily similar. Somehow my attention span was longer when my ass was still burning.

Well, hopefully, they'd be stopped from doing it again.

Let me be clear (for me, I can't speak for classic): my parents are awesome. Did I get my butt beat once? Yes, for a very good reason. My parents were not abusive. Though, in this day and age, it's looked at differently, and I understand that...I won't even entertain the idea that my parents should have been "stopped" by anyone from anything.

No. But Classic said imagine what would happen to a parent who did that today.

The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.

Heh...true. :)

I think there was even an old L'il Rascals where one of them knew he was in trouble when he got home so he stuck about 9 tons of TP in his pants.

Hell, I was brought up on The Beano, Dandy, and Whizzer and Chips: every other strip ended up with someone being caned/slippered/etc.

I was smacked as a child. My Mum's hand damaged me far less than her tongue. I was and still am terrified of her temper. I'd rather she slapped me now than some of the things I fear she will come out with. Fear? Yup. Like in a horror story, the potential is always worse than the occurence. After all, I could always slap her back (AS IF!) but I could never be as mean as her with a real cob on.

Speaking from my weighty experience with 6-7 year olds, I think a lot of the joy of learning is in the teaching. "My" teacher, Miss M, engages the children utterly. If their attention wanders her usual response is to start a dialogue, get their interest back. But this is a very well disciplined class. She sings to them, "Listen, children" and they sing back, "Yes Miss [three syllable name]" Stops all conversation immediately with no shouting.

I can't imagine her hitting any of them. Like Dani says, the past is a foreign country. I grew up in an era of corporal punishment. I was only on the receiving end once and it didn't stop me idolising that teacher. But I was made to stand on my chair for talking a year later, and I cried in front of the whole class. I hated that teacher for weeks afterwards.

Yeah, I never quite knew what to do with my parents, growing up. I was always in trouble. Mostly for small things, I think. But the anger, the hostility, the guilt... were omnipresent. I was only spanked or beaten a handful of times, but I would do almost anything to stay out of the house and away from my mother's constant judgment and anger. It took me years to realize that having the pit of fear in my belly didn't have to be a constant thing. That life *might* be worth living.

So today, when she calls me and pats herself on the back for being such a fabulous mother, I grit my teeth and say "yes mom". And I wait (again) for the day that I am free.

I will never have a child. I am too much like her.

Been there. Also not doing that.