Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam's IOUs
 

HAHAHAHAHA Wow I feel soooooooooo much better now!

Note to self: die before 2037.

I first heard about this from PJ O'Rourke (sp?) with whom I generally disagree. IIRC, the soc sec money, by law, had to be deposited in some kind of bond. That bond could only be loaned to the treasury. The only legal thing the treasury could do was spend it. Which they did.
This one has been building for decades.
See what is happening in Greece RFN? Largely, they cannot afford the level of social security they have promised themselves. Their govt is bankrupt, yet the people still refuse to accept the austerity cuts. Riots ensue.
I don't know how this is going to play out, but it isn't going to be pretty. Stock up on long-life food, folks. Good luck.

Don't worry.
If the Mayans were right, the world will end in December, 2012.
God, I hope so.
That means only 2 more Christmases I have to buy presents.

After that we'll be buying Tecapuchahulpamas presents.

I like the cut of your gib. Think positive!

Is there much difference between this model of social security and a pyramid (ponzi) scheme? As long as the base keeps growing, no problem - growth slows, problem.

I like the cut of your outboard.

It's raised especially for you. ;)

I like the sound of your boom! ;)


(See how the mainsail sets? Call for the captain ashore, let me go home.)

It's a Bada Boom.

Biiiiiig bada boom

Tony Soprano

A big difference: there are only two levels, and you are guaranteed (provided you survive) a place at the "top".

There will always be people paying, so there will always be money for the people receiving. Different proportions of old to young may affect how much, but they will never run out.

I see no practical difference between receiving a nominal sum that is a fraction of anybody's idea of living expenses, and not receiving anything. The part that makes it a ponzi scheme is the idea that everyone will receive something of value, which the government continues to insist upon.

Myself, I already made peace long ago with the idea that the program will implode before I'm old and I will receive (effectively) nothing. I choose to think of it as "welfare for old people," rather than a "system" I'm "paying in to," and that's fine.

Do you think that the ratio of old to young will rise indefinitely? The boomers will die eventually (If not, immortality would be a valid excuse to eliminate Social Secuity for the elderly).

And if the ratio of old to young, does rise indefinately, that means people are living longer, and the retirement age should be raised. Which brings the Social Security ratio back in balance.

I'm not sure what the difference between "welfare for old people" and a "system" I'm "paying in to" really is. It's welfare for old people who paid into the system.

I think it's neither. It's a piggy bank that our government has plundered for whatever purpose they want. It's more like a tax. Soon we'll be paying an "earnings surcharge" in addition to our taxes and other forms of government extortion.

If the boomers don't die on their own, they'll likely become hobos. Then they're just Shawnee fodder, and their numbers will quickly diminish. As an unexpected side effect, the price of dead hobos, and dead hobo meat will plunge. It's win/win/win.

Or we could all just support our own old folks. Let me tell you - that's really costly. Wouldn't you like your mother-in-law living with you? :eek:

I claimed 7 hobos on my tax return this year. They're all gone now, except for The Hobo Who Wouldn't Die. Don't look at me, I have no idea what happened to them. :unsure:

I've tried my mom living with me before. She really needs to go into an assisted living community.I really have been not enjoying keeping her issues organized and my own which, if I do not want to be one of those hobos,should be top priority.

:juggle:

When your kids get grown and you think everyone is going to be ok then your parents regress into childhood.I thought I was done with this. I am trying to keep the love but devising reasons to keep me on the line and my less than loving feelings is something I feel guilty about. Mostly when I am tired and don't want the phone to ring ONE MORE TIME.

They probably went to hobo camp. I wouldn't worry.

"One time, at hobo camp..."

Well, I have no kids, no one who might give a shit about me when I hit 80... I guess I'll have to hope for some sort of Logan's Run dystopia to put me out of my misery.

Shaw, if I claim to be a hobo, will you do the honors?

I would, but I'll be long gone before that, probably.

Unless of course the aliens let me stay and grant me eternal life.

Soilent Green Pie!

The difference is, I don't receive welfare now, and I'm planning ahead and saving for retirement so that I hopefully won't need to rely on welfare when I'm old either. The implication of the "system you paid into" was that you would be well taken care of, moreso than just barely keeping you above the poverty line. It doesn't currently do that, and will do so even less in the coming decades.

Hopefully.

Yeah, hopefully. I'm not saying we should get rid of Social Security, I'm saying I'm personally too cynical to count on it.

I'm counting on working until I'm about 75. That'll be 3 years after I die.

Save now and hope there will be something there, but like you I am not counting on it.

You two are the least of the systems worries. At this point I think you are expected to take the attitude that nothing will be there, otherwise there won't be.

The problem with that thinking is that I pay a lot of money into it every year, I should get a piece.

You will get a piece, unless you die too soon.

just not what you put in - relatively speaking.

If everyone got back what they put in, it would be useless.

Where are you going to save? The stock market, that crashed? The bank, 30 of which have closed in 2010? My mattress, where its value won't increase? If retirement age were increased, and if there were a net worth maximum to recieve SS, there'd be money there when we retire.

I'm not counting on jack from SS. Started an IRA 5 years ago and fingers crossed that and a fire department pension will see me through the golden years.

You understand that when a bank closes, your deposits are insured up to $250,000, right? If you've got more than that to save, put it in multiple banks.

You're right we should all get back more, MUCH more than we put in.

Same here. We got to worry about paying off interest charges as well...

I'm not counting on it, but I'm hopeful.

When I was younger, I didn't think it would ever exist for me, and I would have welcomed its termination. But now that I've paid a metric ass ton into the system, I'm more and more interested in keeping the pyramid scheme going.

They send out those little annual reports about what your payments will be at age 72 if you continue earning your current salary. That amount would be very nice to get. I wonder if those are in today's dollars or in the future's dollars? I think they say I'm gonna get like $1500 a month. That might not be enough to buy a can of cat food in 30 years when I retire. Hopefully they will adjust for inflation, and I'll get $28,000 a month so I can afford 60 cans of cat food each month.

Propafuckingganda...

There is no way that money will be there like they say it will.

There are plenty of ways that money will be there like they say it will.

Could you please elaborate?

I think Spexx was just countering merc's doomistic "NO WAY" by saying, certainly, there ARE ways. Think of it as making fun of hyper hyperbolics, rather than a specific defense of the Social Security system.

On the other hand, merc, please elaborate on the many NO WAYS there won't be any money there. In this deliberation, please counter ALL ways that the money could possibly actually be there.

Otherwise, it's just more crying. Seems to work for ya, though.

Here's three:

Increase contributions

Increase the age at which you can get benefits

Deny benefits to those whose income/net worth is over $X

Cause we're Team America (FUCK, YEAH!) and we can do anything!

Who, me?

Ah, thank you for the explanation. I am probably too tired to be trying to read/understand this stuff, but I have 4.5hrs more of work to stay awake for...

Some of the ways:
Raise the retirement age
Raise or eliminate the cap on payroll taxes
Baby Boomers die.

Ahh, the Eskimo solution.

I don't think we'll need the Eskimo solution for the Boomers to die. I suspect it will happen eventually, no matter what.

There's a plan: Kill baby boomers. Except me.

Sooner rather than later, too, because they're only going to get more expensive.

Bump...

Read more:

Isn't that nice - In comparison, however, that is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the wars we are fighting.

Amusingly, that is almost identical to the value of the bales of cash we lost track of in Iraq, according to a show I heard on NPR on my way home tonight.

lol - One of the comments below this article eluded to the same thing.

Just for clarity: According to the radio show, it was $6.6 billion total unaccounted for, which matches the $6.5 billion mentioned in the article, not the $8 billion in the article headline, or the $6 billion on one pallet or $26 billion total mentioned in the comments.