10/01/02: Religion is a bunch of fucking bunk.
 

I got an essay back today that I wrote for my Anthropology of Religion class, and I received a 90%! This is very exciting for me, because although it's not 100%, i've been doing pretty lousy in school through lack of motivation these past couple of semesters. It's very depressing to know exactly how to do well in school, but not actually do well because I can't make myself do the work. So, this is a great ego-boost for me, especially since I also got 100% on my last Cultural Anthropolgy exam. I'm posting my paper below. I suspect that this might come off as lame and boring, seeing as how I don't particularly like reading most college essays myself. However, this is the most interesting thing that's happened to me today, aside from playing Quake III with my lovely wife. And I doubt you want a play-by-play of that. So, onto the journal pages this goes. The assignment was to write 2 pages, double spaced, on your our of religion, how it's affected your life, what it's role is in society, etc. It's basically just a 'what's your opinion' paper, and you can't really go wrong with a subject like that.


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I am not religious, but religion does have a direct effect on my life. Christians in particular are always changing my society for the worse. For example, I can't buy beer on Sunday. In fact, a lot of businesses I'd like to buy things from are closed on Sundays. Also, I can't say things like "god dammit!" or "Jesus Christ!" without getting strange looks. I really enjoy saying these things, and I don't think like I should feel like an outsider because of it. Also, Christians are always trying to suppress the things I love, like Dungeons & Dragons, video games, music, movies, novels, cursing, and sex. They're always harassing my gay friends, and making sure the government never gives them marriage rights. They're welcome to their own opinions, of course. Unfortunately, they never stop at just having an opinion. They feel they must actively force their opinions on others. It wouldn't be so bad if they actually had a logical reason for their beliefs. You can't reason with them, though, because they don't use reason or logic. In short, religious people in America are always trying to screw it up for the rest of us.
<p>What follows is my personal theory on how religion came about. It's only my opinion! It's as close to a model as I've been able to figure out.
<p>Humans comprehend their environment by giving meaning to objects. When a human sees a new object, he observes it and tries to associate some meaning to it. If he doesn't understand the object, he becomes frightened and angry. Sometimes, if no meaning can be found, one is simply made up and adopted as truth. This is how religion was born. It's much easier to just make something up rather than face the frustration of not knowing. The fear of not knowing the answer to a whole slew of philosophical questions is too much for most people. Humans are endlessly driven to understand everything. This isn't so much because we feel that knowledge is a noble quest. It's just that not knowing the answer is extremely agitating. Whether the meaning is true or not is irrelevant; people just want that warm fuzzy feeling that comes with knowing everything.
<p>Well, I'm sure you're asking, why did I take this class if I think it's all a bunch of nonsense? Well, I find religion fascinating in a Robin Hood or King Arthur sort of way. I've always loved fantasy and science fiction novels, and the core of a good fantasy story has always been a detailed and elaborate world for its main characters to participate in. Most religions have also assembled extremely detailed and fascinating worlds to explain the unknown. It's fascinating to read about them, and wonder whether or not they're true.
<p>Beyond the story aspect, though, I'm also intrigued by religion's incredible power to control people. When it comes to making people do what you want, it's more powerful than a gun. After all, a gun can only be pointed at a few people at a time. Religion can control the actions and morality of an entire continent, long after the religion's founder has died. And, unlike victims at gunpoint, religious followers will be more than happy to do all sorts of insane things.
<p>All people form a mental model of the world inside their head. Religion can be thought of as the type of architecture of that mental model. Thought of in that way, religion can be seen to control potentially everything about a person, including the way they think and act. It's this that draws me to study religion the most. I'll have to deal with people all my life, so it's extremely important to me to understand how their mind works and how they view the world.

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The instructor's comment at the end of the paper read:
<blockquote>Regardless of your personal convictions, you have presented ample critical insight into religion as a human construct. I do appreciate your candor and sincerity, and your extreme intellectualist viewpoint about religious thought.</blockquote>

How cool is that??

Let's play some Q3 some time. You have OSP installed? http://www.orangesmoothie.com - you need version 1.01 for Quake3. :)

Sounds great. :) Message me via AIM (juju111) and we'll hook up. I'm about to go to work now, so try me after 10pm tonight, or anytime tommorrow.

Re: 10/01/02: Religion is a bunch of fucking bunk.
 

You shouldn't lump all Christians together thusly. I'm a Christian, but I'm 100% against blue laws. The reason it's Christians in particular that you feel trod upon you is -- are you ready for this? -- the U.S. is predominantly Christian. (Since you live in Arkansas, I'm assuming it's worse than usual for you.) True separation of curch and state would be nice, but I don't think it'll ever happen. Again, I'm not saying I like the way things are, just that some of it will never change. Our currency will never not say "In God We Trust."

That said, I really think that if someone took a particular government to court to get blue laws appealed, they'd have a pretty good chance of succeeding in today's climate. Especially if they can show harm, such as a liquor store owner that says he's losing business because of the lack of separation of church and state. I haven't researched this, but I wonder if anyone has done this, and if not, why?


If they aren't closed because of a law, you've got no reason to complain. The store owner chooses when he'll open, and that's his right. I'd like to be able to buy a Filet-O-Fish at 3 a.m., but that's not possible.

What if the existence of an all-powerful being is <I>the only logical conclusion</I> that can be drawn? When I dissected animals in high school biology, and witnessed the awesome intricacy of their tissues, organs, and how it all worked together, the only thing I could think of was "there's no way this just <I>happened</I>." I believe in evolution as well; I just believe God guided it.

But my point is, just because there is no physical proof that God exists, doesn't mean that everyone who believes He does exist came to that conclusion by just pulling it out of their ass.

Re: Re: 10/01/02: Religion is a bunch of fucking bunk.
 

Well, the problem is that a lot of the people who call themselves Christians have such a wildly varied set of beliefs, that the word Christian is in danger of losing it's meaning (at least to me). These days, anyone can say they're a Christian and won't be questioned. So, i'm faced with two options. One, I can define 'Christian' as a person with the values that the majority of Christians I see today hold. Or two, I can give up and accept that saying you're a Christian means absolutly nothing except that you believe in God. I have chosen the first option, and the majority of Christians I see are completely nuts. I have met some people who say they're Christians who act competely normally (such as yourself). Quite truthfully, this baffles me. How can you associate yourself with such nutjobs? My wife's family is the same way. They say they're Christians, but they act pretty normally to me. For example, if they read and obeyed the bible, they would be anti-gay. But they're not. I don't get it. I consider nice people like yourself and my wife's family to not really be Christians. In my mind, if you're not completely insane, then you're not really a Christian. I know this isn't the case, but it helps me sort it out in my head.

Anyway, i'm highly predjudiced against Christians because of the all the nutjobs i've seen. This introduces a certain irrationality into my thinking on this matter, and I know this. So i'm sure you could probably decimate everything I just said. How about if I just admit that I have a problem? :)


That would be awesome. :) Actually, i've never drank alcohol, so it doesn't really affect me. The teacher doesn't know this, though. And I do feel that I should have the right, even if I don't choose to exercise it. I mean, it <i>is</i> complete nonsense.


I agree that law isn't really an issue, but I wasn't addressing that. Even so, I don't agree with your logic at all. The law itself guarantees my right to bitch about whatever I want. I do agree that I can't do anything about it, since it's the store owner's choice. But one of the things the teacher asked us to address is how religion has affected us. Since the owner's choice is based on religion, I felt justified in putting it in.


Hmm... a debate on this topic would be in danger of going on forever. :]

My human evolution teacher knew a lot about human anatomy, and he used to bring up all sorts of examples of how the human body is constructed extremely poorly. He claimed that if a concious being did design us, then he/she must have been drunk or incredibly stupid. Unfortunately, I don't posses his great knowledge of anatomy, and I can't remember any of his examples. But here is a fairly good FAQ on exactly this subject. Since i'm not a scientist or medical doctor, i'm probably not very well equipped to argue this point. I'm putting my faith in what these people are saying, though, because they seem to have it together.

I think you believe because you want to believe. The idea of God and the afterlife is very attractive. After all, you don't have to die, you can live forever. The rest is just a matter of how you're going to rationalize your way to believing it. I think if you really studied the evidence at length, you'd realize that chance can invent humans. I guess this might be kind of insulting, and I hope you won't be mad. Please don't yell at me! I still respect your opinion, and I'm just being honest about how I feel. :)

Then the individual drawing the conclusion needs to either take some classes in Logic and Metaphysics, or to read a few books on the subject matter.
In what way is this a logical conclusion? All you are saying is that you do not have the individual understanding or scope of knowledge to know how "this" happened. Mind you, nobody really does. But then people also assumed the earth was flat, and we lived in a geoocentric universe, for the very same reason.
Ah, belief. If we keep Faith separate from logic, everyone will be happy. As I have Faith myself, I need to remind myself of that reasonably often.
That is certainly true, and I fully agree with you. However, there is a worryingly large number of people who come to organized religion through indoctrination and thoughtless dogma, rather than Faith and genuine discovery of God. This does not only apply to Christianity, of course.

X.

PS: On logic, and the theory of knowledge, I recommend Wittgenstein's Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus, and Bertrand Russell's Problems of Philosophy. The latter is a decent, short introductory text. As additional texts, I recommend ISBN: 0195115511 and 0671203231, both by Bertrand Russell.

Thanks for the texts X.

Before I go any further, I’m atheist but follow and enjoy some buddhist beliefs.
I'd like to ask god why I have an appendix. Or wisdom teeth. Not to mention such pissweak skin, or that little bit of skin at the bottom of your nails. It not hard to find examples.

Some of my best friends are Christians, I try and avoid direct confrontations on the issue, they are for the large part, pointless and messy. The bible, all things considered is an amazingly accurate document, and is in itself a fascinating thing to study. For a while I had an interest in comparing the Hebrew, Aramaic and English translations of the old testament. Of particular interest (and there are several textbooks that pick up on this) is pre-Moses in the old testament there are three separate names that are sued to refer to god, each of which correlates to a different personality, or types of acts, which as led some people myself included to believe that the original intent was that there was 3 separate gods. It’s a very contentious topic, but fascinating. One of the most interesting thing about Christians I found is when you ask some difficult questions ("why was the apple tree in the garden in the first place, isn't that a bit like putting razor blades in a sand pit?" "Isn't it a bit unfair that people who have never even heard of Christianity before they die will go to hell though no fault of their own?" etcetcetc) you tend to get an amazing variety of answers, based on church, personal beliefs and bible version/interpretation.

The vast majority of people my age I know that are Christian are because their families are and really, cannot defend their beliefs very well at all, indeed it is without faith. There are a few who are 'born again' Christians though, some of which *really* get up my nose, particularly when unable to defeat a statement they reply with "you're going to hell", or "ill pray for you". People like that make me sad. On the other hand I know some extremely intelligent Christians who are open for discussion about some of the tougher aspects of their religion and can defend well their beliefs without imposing them on others.

Well said, Jag. I agree that there are some very nice and intelligent Christians. All they're doing, though, is taking their already reasonable worldview, and picking and choosing all the sane things from Chrisitianity that coincide with their already held beliefs. All the really fucked up stuff that's in the bible they just ignore. The people who get their morality and worldview directly from Bible tend to complete nutjobs.

I think that religion has a tendency to promote illogical thinking. Some people may be able to resist this trap, but most can't.

"Only a civil engineer would route a toxic waste pipeline through a recreational area."

/punchline

Re: Re: Re: 10/01/02: Religion is a bunch of fucking bunk.
 

Jews, Muslims, and many others believe in God -- arguably the same God. Christian means you believe in Christ as your savior. So your second definition is a little too broad. :)

I don't associate myself with those nutjobs... that's why I don't want you to lump as all together! Seeing as how you've now defined your definition of Christians as just the nutty ones, that's fine with me -- you just might want to make that known.

True, I didn't want to debate evolution vs. creation or anything. But I have a hard time believing that most people can accept anything on blind faith for their entire lives. It's just not in human nature to do so. I have personally seen much evidence in my life that God exists, and so I have no problem with believing it.

Or maybe that Being intentionally designed us with flaws. Just because some Perfect Being <I>could have</I> designed us much better and didn't, has nothing to do with whether he <I>did</I> design us, or whether he exists in the first place. Either way, I'm sure he just loved getting a rise out of all those nutjob Christians when he suggested that God was drunk or stupid.

The whole "why did God design us with fucked-up bodies" issue reminds me of the "if God is all-powerful, why does he allow evil and suffering to exist" issue. It's not black and white -- inefficient bodies vs. efficient ones, good vs. evil. It's a spectrum, and we put things into perspective based on the extremes that we've witnessed in our universe.

If our bodies were designed to be 500% more efficient than they are, we would still say "why are our bodies so inefficient? Why do I have to eat an apple <I>every week</I> in order to still function?" Or if we had a titanium exoskeleton instead of skin, "why is our skin so weak? Why can't I walk into a nuclear reactor and not be killed?"

If these examples seem far-fetched, it's because we're <I>used to</I> the extremes as they exist in our universe.

I think you're pretty close there. But I think it's more an issue of literal vs. figurative interpretation rather than picking and choosing. One of the things I find humorous is how people think God literally created the universe in seven earth days. Hmmm... it's pretty hard to base creation of the universe off of the rotation of some chunk of rock that didn't even exist when the clock started!

That's not true. When people remove logic from faith, shit hits the fan. I'm sure juju would agree with that.

The fact remains, though, that Christians <i>are</i> the cause of all of the things I listed in that first paragraph. I certainly didn't intend to imply that all of them collectively decided to screw the world up. I Just meant that the people who are screwing things up happen to be Christian.

I know I shouldn't generalize, and this is a big problem of mine in this area. You're right to criticize me. It's just that <i>some</i> Christians piss me off so much, that I have very hard time seeing the good parts.


I thought your argument for the existence of God was based on perfection and immense complexity? Or is it just immense complexity that convinces you of the existence of God? You don't think immensely complex systems can arise through chance?


Naw, the kind of person that would get offended by that would never take a class on Human Evolution.

Gah, it comes down to interpretation of the bible. Many churches now choose to ignore much of the Old Testament. The second is contextualization of the content to understand its meaning.

For example: The verses where women must be silent, not teach men etc. These verses were written while the writer was in a city that was heavily populated by a women-only cult (Diane I think if I remember correctly - been a good 6 months since I’ve touched this stuff) which had caused allot of harm (there is allot more to it, but that is the basics) and thus those verses must be seen in that light, not from a modern perspective. This contextualization is essential to a more correct understanding of the bible and requires often extensive research.

I thought we were created in god's image? On of the arguments thrown around by creationists for the teaching of it is the banana - designed for human consumption, easy to open, tastes nice, has a freshness meter (skin colour) built in. Of course they ignore the 1000000 examples to the opposite. Look lets ALL avoid directly attacking or defending our respective religions, that truly is pointless and stick to the more interesting abstract parts of religion.


Correlation != cause-effect relationship. Arguably many of those in power are Christian because we line in a predominately Christian society, if you lived in Pakistan you may say the same thing about Muslims. There is no proof their Christianity is the cause of their bad deeds, although arguable it is the justification or basis for at least some of them. The problem with religion as a jsutification for anything is it allows the justification of the unjustifiable becase of its abstractness the bloody (as in blood everywhere) crusades, the inquisitions, abortion clinic bombings, flying planes into the WTC, its so easy for people to use their religion to justify acts that clearly are against their own religion.

I think its more about accepting Christ as your savior and attempting to live by the rules of god. It gets messy.

Evolution.........The only counterarguement i heard that i liked was "if god created the earth, then it woudl not be hard to put a few fossils around to confuse us". In fact many o the best ideas come from christians who understand that Christ/God mayjsut have had a sens of humour. There is one verse where a woman is brought to jesus, proclaimed guilty of adultery, they ask where she should be stoned to death or not. He is put in a dilemma - if he says no, he in riling against the states laws, if he says yes, it is unchristian as such. So instead he jsut ignroes them and draws in the sand with a stick, that one always made me crack up.

I think jsut to counter some of the perceptions ill give a quick profile of one of my Christian friends.

He's 23, a lawyer by profession. Topped his class in school, went straight into the more perstigious uni's doing arts/law. Was headhunted straight out of uni into a ~US$80,000 a year job which he quit 3 years later becasue of the hours etc to do social work. He's extremely articulate, one of the smartest people i know and doesn't even try to convert people. They're not all bad.

I wasn't really trying to argue for the existence of God; just explain how my beliefs are rooted in more than just blind faith. And again, my point is that the following statements can <I>all</I> be true:

• God exists
• God is perfect
• God created humans
• Humans are imperfect

There is nothing mutually exclusive about these statements. Humans being flawed and imperfect has nothing to do with whether God is all-powerful and perfect. I'm not trying to debate whether He <I>is</I>, just that using man's imperfections as evidence doesn't make sense.

Yeah, I suppose you've got a pretty good point there!

We were. He just intentionally used a lossy algorithm when copying His image. So our imperfections are nothing more than JPEG artifacting. :)

Part of the problem is that most people associate Religion with Faith. They are to totaly seperate things, at least I thinks so. Religion is what tells people that they should go to church on Sunday, that you need to go to confession to be absolved of your sins, kneel to pray, and genuflect before entering a pew. Most of these things are not expressly stated in the bible as necessary.

Faith on the other hand is just the genuine belief in God. It is a personal thing and is different from person to person. And how you practice your faith is totally up to you. Relgion is just a guide created by other people.
Of course someone cannot be Religious without some faith, this isn't true the other way, someone can have faith without being religious.

The majority of people in America belong to the Christian faith. Most of these people follow different form of Religion that believe in this faith such as Catholic, Presbeterian, and Protestant religions. Sadly in some parts of the country, especially in close knit communities, people look at religion as a sign that someone is faithful, when truely these are two different things.

No that organised religion. Religion doth not have to be organised.

You can have faith in anything, most people ahve a degree in faith in science - they beleive something they do not understand. Personally i have faith in people.

God needs to up the slider in photoshop. Gah, rather than argue this i'm going to put in a little essay by voltaire entitled Plato's dream.

In ancient times, dreams were much revered, and Plato was one of the greatest
dreamers. His dream The Republic is deservedly famous, but the following
little-known tale is perhaps his most amazing dream--or nightmare:
The great Demiurgos, the eternal geometer, having scattered throughout the
immensity of space innumerable worlds, decided to test the knowledge of those
lesser superbeings who were also his creations, and who had witnessed his works.
He gave them each a small portion of matter to arrange, just as our own art
teachers give their students a statue to carve, or a picture to paint, if we may
compare small things to great.
Demogorgon received the lump of mold we call Earth, and having formed it as it
now appears, thought he had created a masterpiece. He imagined he had silenced
Envy herself, and expected to receive the highest praise, even from his
brethren. How great was his surprise, when, at the presentation of his work,
they hissed in disappoval!
One among them, more sarcastic than the rest, spoke:
"Truly you have performed mighty feats! You have divided your world into two
parts; and, to prevent them from communicating with each other, placed a vast
collection of waters between the two hemispheres. The inhabitants must perish
with cold under both your poles, and be scorched to death under the equator. You
have, in your great prudence, formed immense deserts of sand, so all who travel
over them may die with hunger and thirst. I have no fault to find with your
cows, sheep, cocks, and hens; but can never be reconciled to your serpents and
spiders. Your onions and artichokes are very good things, but I cannot conceive
what induced you to scatter such a heap of poisonous plants over the face of the
planet, unless it was to poison its inhabitants. Moreover, if I am not mistaken,
you have created about 30 different kinds of monkeys, a still greater number of
dogs, yet only four or five races of humans. It is true, indeed, you have
bestowed on the latter of these animals a faculty you call Reason, but it is so
poorly executed that you might better call it Folly. Besides, you do not seem to
have shown any very great regard for this two-legged creature, seeing you have
left him with so few means of defense; subjected him to so many disorders, and
provided him with so few remedies; and formed him with such a multitude of
passions, and so little wisdom and prudence to resist them. You certainly were
not willing that there should remain any great number of these animals on Earth
at once; for, over the course of a given year, smallpox will regularly carry off
a tenth of the species, and sister maladies will taint the springs of life in
the remainder; and then, as if this was not enough, you have so disposed things
that half of those who survive are occupied in lawsuits, or cutting each other's
throats. Yes, they must be infinitely grateful to you, and I must admit that you
have executed a masterpiece."
Demogorgon blushed. He now realized there was much moral and physical evil in
his work, but still believed it contained more good than ill.
"It is easy to find fault," he said; "but do you imagine it is so easy to form
an animal, who, having the gift of reason and free will, shall not sometimes
abuse his liberty? Do you think that, in rearing 10,000 plants, it is so easy to
prevent some few from having noxious qualities? Do you suppose that, with a
certain quantity of water, sand, and mud, you could make a globe without sea or
desert?
"As for you, my sneering friend, I think you have just finished the planet
Jupiter. Let us see now what figure you make with your great belts, and your
long nights, with four moons to enlighten them. Let us examine your worlds, and
see whether the inhabitants you have made are exempt from folly and disease."
Accordingly, his fellow entities examined the planet Jupiter, and were soon
laughing at the laugher. He who had made Saturn did not escape without his share
of censure, and his fellows, the makers of Mars, Mercury, and Venus, was each in
his turn reproached.
They were in the midst of railing against and ridiculing each other, when the
eternal Demiurgos thus imposed silence on them all:
"In your performances there is both good and bad, because you have a great share
of understanding, but at the same time fall short of perfection. Your works will
endure for only a few billion years, after which you will acquire more knowledge
and perform much better. It belongs to me alone to create things perfect and
immortal."
"Us, for example?" asked Demogorgon.
Demiurgos scowled, and with that Plato awoke.
Or did he?

Oh, God is so sending you to hell now.

BTW, Faith != Religion. Believing in God has nothing to do with being part of any religious group.

Repeat after me: dogma is bad.

X.

I much like Dogma, thank you very much.

(I know, I know, this is way too much like a Nic Name post.)

no way. dogma is great. i especially like the part where matt damon whacks all those mooby execs.

one thing i have noticed recently is christians blatantly ignoring obvious scientific facts so they can be 'right'. i personally believe God exists, and his existence *can* be reconciled to science, without ignoring the facts. note i said reconciled, not proved.

things the scientific community 'knew' 100 years ago we know to be false today. in another 100 years will know certain things we know today to be false. its the way of things, we learn more everyday and sometimes newfound knowledge turns established knowledge on its ear. anyone claiming to have proof of God's nonexistence has proof of a holy crusade just as fucked up as the religious nutjobs noted in the previous paragraph.

the problem with Gods [non]existence is that given his/her nature, it cannot and will not ever be proven. all believers point to their own evidence, but it always boils down to faith. the evidence presented is to reconcile belief to a nonbeliever, but the faith is what matters.

someone once told me that humankind is a race that needs to have faith. regardless of what they believe in, everyone believes in something. those who do not worship any God or affiliate themselves with any religion have faith and take comfort in the lack a higher power. those arent quite the right words, but you get the idea.

~james

uh, that just kind of rambles on up there. sorry. there is a point in there somewhere.

dammit dave, you stole my joke.

Interesting essay.

It's nice to know that some things don't change over thousands of years!

Nah, I'm one of those who believes God has a sense of humor.

I mean, look at the platypus.

i saw a religious tract once that used the platypus as proof that God exists. it talked about how evolution could not have created such a creature, blah blah blah, since we used the duckbilled platypus to prove evolution doesnt exist, and evolutionists claim God doesnt exist, therefore God exists. it was full of cirular reasoning and bizarre leaps of logic. this is the stupid crap im talking about.

~james

Actually I think it does have to be organized. In fact cults usually are a form of religion. They just don't practice their beliefs in a way society has deemed proper yet. Remember that the Catholic Church started out as little more than a cult .

Of course I also believe you can have faith in science or anything else. All I was saying is that religion is just a bunch of people telling you how to show your faith in God.

I also think that any believer in God who doesn't believe in science isn't doing a good job using what God gave her/him. I think God created the world and made it evolve into what it is now to give us all something to do while we are here. Figuring out what happened.

You can be religious/beleive in god without following the dogma of an organisation or belonging to a community/organisation. I know some people that mesh various sets of beleifs together to form thier own sets, which they alone follow.

Which in reality is either just a faith or else your following a religion, your setting a standard that you must follow to consider yourself or other faithful. Faith is Faith, Religion is what tell people how to practice there faith.

"I don't want to start any blasphemous rumours
But I think that God has a sick sense of humour
And when I die
I expect to find him laughing"
--Depeche Mode

Incidentally, Tob, if you lived in Philadelphia, you could get that Filet o' Fish at 3am. There's a McDonald's at Cottman and the Boulevard that's open 23 hours a day. :)

Yes but the religion is not told to you by an organisation, thereby it is not organised, which is a distinction i find very important.

The following letter was written in the Letters to the Editor section of Friday's Arkansas Traveler, the school newspaper. It was regarding this comic strip. To me, it's a shining example of religious moronity. I really want to respond, but I don't think I will.

Click the second link before you read the letter.
<blockquote>
<b>Cartoon offensive, not humorous</b>

I am writing in regards to the comic strip "Life In Hell" that is being run in The Traveler. As a Christian and a UA associate, I find this comic very inappropriate for a campus newspaper and offensive to those who are trying to make a difference in someone else's daily walk with God. Not to mention it's not even funny. To mock the possibility of someone spending their life in hell is neither humorous nor does it take the matter of Salvation and living a Godly life seriously. Students today are faced with far too many issues and don't need comedy about hell to ease their worries.
These are dangerous times in the world today, and the fact is God should not be overlooked in any aspect in life, especially when our own government and leaders of this country are so quick to respond to a tragedy with God Bless America. I'm sure the support staff of The Traveler can find something to replace this comic strip with and continue to produce a paper at a level of dignity for all ethnical groups to enjoy. I hope my response to the cartoon is taken to heart and considered a great matter of concern.

A.GENE ELLISON | clerical assistant
in Human Resources
</blockquote>

Comments?

Perhaps that guy doesn't realize that he's already in hell...it's called Arkansas. :)

Lol.. good point.

Well, I just sent this reply off to the editor. Hopefully, it'll get published!
<blockquote>This letter is in response to the letter by A.Gene Ellison in last Friday's
paper regarding the comic strip "Life in Hell".

Instead of changing the world to suit your view, why not just stop viewing
the things you don't like? I really enjoy the comic. Yet, you would deprive
me of my laughter because you were offended. I am offended by your letter.
Can I tell the Editor not to post your letters? I would never ask such a
thing, because I accept diversity.

In your letter, you said, "Students today are faced with far too many issues
and don't need comedy about hell to ease their worries." In fact, we do need
comedy to ease our worries. Comedy is a prerequisite to a healthy psyche. If
we can't laugh at the serious things in life, then we may find ourselves with
no coping mechanism for disaster.

In short, I recommend that you lighten up.</blockquote>

Not bad, although I would have probably added:

"Look you holy roller, I'm tired of you trying to rape my mind with your god. We don't need your kind around here anymore, as your kind are responsible for the decay of western civilization as we know it. You are a plague. You are a virus. You and your kind must be rounded up and placed in cages for viewing and taunting."

Yeah...that'll work. :)

Liberalism - your thought for the day
 

Liberalism:

"[...] a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition [...]"

"[...] a political philosophy based on belief in progress [...] and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties [...]"

Now figure how that interacts with a system that wishes to impose its dogmatic (by definition unchangeable) values on everyone, irrespective of whether they wish to adhere to that system or not.

X.

Syc, you have no idea how much I wanted to say that. :]

Well, truth be told Juju, had you put that in your letter, you would have come across as a nut...and may have been banned from the state of Arkansas. But it's definitely okay to think it or to share it with friends and loved ones. :)

Is that a punishment?

For juju right now, I'd say it would be. As a whole though, no...I wouldn't shed a tear if they banned me from there or several other states.

Can they actually 'ban' you from a state? Just curious.

Naw. Sometimes one hears of people who "can't go to Nevada" or something similar, but that would be because they have accumulated some kind of criminal record in that state, probably something not so important that it calls for extradition. Petty theft, accumulated traffic violations, etc.

In the USA, citizenship and immigration are federal constitutional jurisdictions.

States cannot legislate in those matters. If one is legally in the USA, one cannot be banned from any state and can travel to any state without restriction.

When you hear of someone who "can't go to some state" it means he can't go there without liability for outstanding offences.

As I understand it, substantial criminal offences are all subject to inter-state cooperation, so suspects and criminals can be picked up in any state on a warrant from another and transferred to the state in which the crime was commited.

In Canada, criminal law legislation is solely a federal jurisdiction but the enforcement of that law is provincial. In Canada, there cannot be different criminal laws and penalties depending on which province the act is committed, as it is in the States.

IIRC, there is a county in Georgia under fire for banning people from the county...as in, you must leave the county and not come back.

I know that it's almost impossible to do, but Philadelphia would kick so much more ass if people could be banned...particularly in the area of people with bad driving records. In fact, New Jersey and PA should come to an agreement where PA buys the City of Camden and uses it as a penal colony. The Australia of 2002. :)

I'm a Pedestrian.
 

via Moxie

I think the religious website www.crosswalk.com is run by Pedestrians. ;)

Moxie? ;)

Cool, looks like my letter got published. Along with two other letters who sarcastically agreed with the person but intentionally ridiculed them at the same time.

Excellent, job well done!

Religion vs. Philosophy?
 

Just a question, but doesn't it make sense to not choose one set religion or philosophy, but take a bite from each and suit it to your own taste? I mean it's like clothing... I can buy a shirt that matches yours, but is a different size, right? Or buy the same brand/style of shirt, but in a different color.

I used to believe in christianity until they couldn't explain ancient "myths" which appeared in various cultures all over the world, which were similar but a tad diffeent. How could all these spread-out countries all have the mythos of elves, faeries, etc and yet a religion with no such stories is going to tell them they are all wrong. I got into witchcraft thinking that they might have the answers - I found a few more than I expected, but at the same time, witches were as divided as christians...

So, I turned to eastern philosophy, specificly tao and zen. Only here did I find my "final" answers. Tao teaches "your way may not be my way. we all walk different roads, but all roads lead to tao".

So, if we are all going to the same destination, but taking different paths there, who says we have to take a specific road?

Any thoughts on this?

All religion is nonsense.

Everyone wants to know the answers to questions. The problem is that anyone can make up an answer. The solution, therefore, is to have extremely high standards of proof. That way, you can be assured that you either know the answer, or you don't.

This whole, "Well, I believe <i>this</i>" waffling is just nonsense. Simply believing something requires nearly no proof at all, yet instills the believer with the sense that they don't need proof. This is so dangerous, IMO. Seek knowledge, yet be certain that what you find is actually true.

thats the thing about most religions. faith requires acceptance withouth proof. you will never *ever* disprove the existence of god, or a god or whatever. just as no one will ever prove the same thing. so to say "simply believing something requires no proof at all" is hitting the nail on the head. people who choose to follow religion choose to adhere to that. it doesnt make them gullible, its just a choice they make.

my father-in-law once told me "james, i have to believe in god. i have to believe that one day i will see my daughter again." (his firstborn daughter died at age 3). everyone has different reasons for their beliefs.

~james

"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people's business."--Jesse Ventura

It's certainly an interesting take on things, but I don't fully agree with it. I believe Juju and I had this discussion a few weeks back...religion gives many people a way to explain the ways of the world. And if that's what some people need to get themselves together, it's cool...just don't force it on me, mmmkay?

One of the incredibly few things I liked about Catholicism was the contextual interpretation of the Bible: The Bible is a great book of faith, but is NOT a history book. The world was not created in 6 days. Abraham and his posse did not roam that small-ass area of Palestine for 40 years. The world will not end as described in Revelation. I can dig that.

But it doesn't matter anyway, since I have my own religion, of which I am a god. ;)

"Professing themselves wise, they became fools."

-the bible

i follow the path of the beam.

all roads lead to the dark tower.

i will die on the quest, if needs be.

"Who is more foolish? The fool? Or the fool who follows him?"

- Obi-Wan Kenobi (Star Wars IV: A New Hope)

someone being followed?


-----------------
when a science fiction n*rd leaves the closet, entering the real world, one may hear, if he listens closely, a placental sound: tearing, rending, followed by a sizzling sound, as the sun touches his skin.

Found these a while back - figured some of you might be interested in a humourous read.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5001/5001_01.asp

It does make them gullible. They're believing in something without first checking to see if it's true or not. Some people may think that's noble, but it's just dumb if you ask me. Doesn't anyone want to be right anymore?

jack chick is a nutjob. there are nutjobs on both sides of the argument. religion is not a "crutch for weak-minded people" and mr. ventura would have us believe. yes, there are weak-minded people who use religion as a crutch. but broad generalisations and uninformed judgement are just as dangerous. to say that anyone who follows any religion of any kind is weak-minded is as arrogant and ignorant as any of the nonsense chick writes.

~james