Professor Gates, Harvard's Pride
 

Extensively quoted by Larry Elder.

Whether the prof had had a couple before heading home or not, he was acting and talking about like he had.

I was wondering when da Cellar would comment about this.

All the guy had to do was be polite and show the cop his driver's license. But no . . . he had to fly off the handle. Conditioning, perhaps, because this is THE scholar of racism in this country, who "knew every racial incident since Jim Crow" -- so he just had to make one himself.

Even smart people can be stupid.

After seeing and listening to both of them on the TV, I came to the conclusion they are both lying. Both trying to act so innocent, it could be they are trying to start acting careers.

The cop, responding to a break in call, has no idea what kind of shit is going to go down. And don't tell me a 5' 6", 150 lb man can't fuck you up... or kill you. So he's on edge, and acting all official and badass out of fear/caution.

The prof, well know and respected in his little circles, feels the cop should take him at his word, and expects polite conversation. He gets pissed when the cop follows him into the house uninvited, even though he hasn't proven who he is or that he should be there, yet. Like the cop is going to let a still suspect just walk away, c'mon.

From there it escalates, with the prof being cocky and the cop getting more pissed at being given a hard time while risking his life to protect the prof's property, and starts acting more hardass.

And the rest is history in the making, by everyone choosing sides while the media plays it to the hilt, interviewing everyone with an axe to grind. :2cents:

Wow - Bruce. You really nailed that one. :thumbsup:

Oh, maybe a 5'6" guy could have a weapon.

Maybe the guy, in the last 4 years lived at that address (got his ID, and beat his wife and was kicked out. His License would still show this as his address, yet things still had to be checked out.

just a couple random thoughts.

Regardless of whatever else happened, both accounts state that Gates did eventually show the cop ID, at which point the cop should have been gone, and there would have been nobody for Gates to be "tumultuous" at.

I'm sick of people acting like cops are wild animals, and if you don't tiptoe around them you deserve what you get.

I wish eminent British Professors spoke like this:
Snicker.

Bottom line, the cop did everything right, up until the moment after the prof showed proof that he lived there. Once the guy proved it was his house, the cop should have left.

There's the whole issue that cops should be polite to citizens, and citizens should be polite to cops, but that's all window dressing. I think both of them were disrespectful to one another, and the cop arrested him only because he was being a dick. No law against that though. The cop should have a thicker skin. Prof shouldn't be surprised though. If you're a dick to a cop, it's not going to go well, regardless of your skin color.

But the cop was wrong to arrest the prof.

But there's conflicting accounts of what ID he exactly showed. It says that he showed his Harvard ID--why? Do those have the address? It's not clear whether he showed his drivers' license at all, first.

If it wasn't a membership card to the Mickey Mouse Club. It would have to be a valid ID with sufficient information to convince the cop he belonged there.

I don't tiptoe around cops, but I do know I'm required to cooperate with them when they are performing their official duties or they have the power to detain/arrest me, by force if necessary, for interference with a police officer in the performance of his duties.

I also know if I act like a dick, he will act like a bigger dick, because it's imperative for his safety to maintain control of the situation. That's his most important weapon, because he has no way of knowing who's armed, nuts or a threat.

There are certainly cops that shouldn't be, but most are just trying to do their job and get home alive.

He wasn't arrested for not belonging there; he was arrested for being tumultuous in his own home.Arresting someone for attitude is losing control, not maintaining it.

Thing is, as Bruce and Cloud have stated, there are very different accounts.
Mum worked for the Police for 13 years (and I can tell you if I'd ever been arrested she would have assumed I was at fault.)

She did admit to family that there are bad apples, the crack-heads-&-ask-later-brigade, officers who have short fuses, or who were arseholes or who simply loved procedure. And she told us of an altercation between an old friend of hers and a police officer where the stories differed wildly. From her knowledge of both, she believed the fault had to be on both sides, two arsey men with over-inflated egos...

In general I was brought up to be on the side of law enforcement. It speaks to a side of me that has been conditioned to accept authority. But I also know they are human, and what goes down in official records is not always what we would consider the truth, were we eye witnesses. And police are racist, homophobic, violent and capable of over-reacting. I think it's in a slightly greater percentage than in the general public, just because the job is bound to attract people with forceful opinions.

But both accounts say that ID was shown, and neither account says that Gates wasn't in his own house.
In fact, the cop says he offered to use Gates' house key to relock the door after the arrest.
And that probably applies here as well. But one of those people was performing an official duty, and could have ended the encounter by leaving, once it was determined that there was no break-in.

He was arrested for "being tumultuous" during a police investigation of a reported crime, where he was the prime suspect. Whether he showed sufficient evidence of his right to be there is not clear. But even if he did that doesn't end the investigation. The cop should still try to find out if the person that reported the break in, saw someone else, before the professor got there. If there was someone hiding in the house, unknown to either of them. What if the cop left and the prof was murdered?
But anyway, verbal assault on a working cop is sufficient reason for arrest, obstructing justice, interfering with a criminal investigation, and clearly racism.

He wasn't arrested for his attitude, he was arrested for his actions, and the fact that he was arrested proves the cop was in control of the situation, if not his temper.

"Being tumultuous" in the real world is risking escalated retaliation, often massive.

I still maintain they were both wrong.

So the cop was putting Gates in protective custody to save him from a hypothetical burglar who he offered to lock in the house behind them?He needs to be in control of both. Gates' actions were displaying attitude, so actions vs attitude is a bit of a quibble.Sure. Gates was wrong for being an ass, and Crowley was wrong for arresting him.

Cops are supposed to deal with people who are having bad days, and if they can only handle asses by tossing them in jail, they need a new line of work. "Don't poke the bear" excuses are only appropriate if the cop is considered to be a wild animal, unable or unwilling to deescalate.

I don't disagree with you, HM, but I have to say that throwing the race card is about as shitty as it gets. Like a woman crying rape, out of revenge, it belittles everyone who has actually been hurt as a result of such crimes. It's a cheap cop-out, pun intended, and slimy and sick. It's a bit more than a little "attitude." Someone who is out there every day dealing with the dumbasses of the world might be a little taken aback to be accused of such a thing when they are trying, against all the crap in the world, to be one who protects all law-abiding citizens, regardless of race.


There, I said it.

Apparently, the cop was very experienced, and actually an instructor teaching cops not to racial-profile. (Or so I heard--who knows what's accurate now?)

I just want to know--if I become obstreperous, can I get a Beer With Obama?

I don't disagree with that, but a) ideally, it shouldn't figure into whether to arrest him, and b) if it does figure into it, it makes arresting him even stupider.

The story should have been "Harvard Professor accuses cops of racism when they respond to 911 call". Gates would not have come out well in that exchange. Instead, the story was "Harvard professor arrested out of his own home after burglary reported." If someone is accusing you of racial profiling, tossing him in jail to teach him a lesson can only hurt your case.

So you suggest we don't tiptoe around law enforcement, but we tiptoe around people who cry "wolf?"

A man whose professional life revolves around the power politics of race escalates a routine answer to a police call into a racial incident, prior to any escalation by the officer.

Gates has built his very lucrative academic career on seeing racists in every corner.

No, I suggest we ignore or refute people who cry "wolf" falsely. I further suggest that, if we wish to suggest that there is no wolf, we not bite them.

Ignore the guy who may or may not be entering a house illegally to do who knows what, because he screams wolf?

Yeah, OK.

Ignore the crying of wolf, which is irrelevant to whether he was in the house legally. And both accounts stipulate that he was.

Next time I'm skulking about outside my own home, and the police ask me if I live there and want ID, I'm going to start screaming "PMS" rather than show my ID. It's really the best way to go. They don't even need to give me the crap about protecting my neighbors, or me...I don't even care if there is a serial killer in my house, just so everyone knows I've been put upon.

The closest thing to "crying wolf" in the "break-in" would be the neighbor calling 911, but that wouldn't apply unless she was in the habit of doing that.

Did you mean "inside"?

Yeah, I'm sorry: I meant "next time I'm inside my house after forcing my door open" I will scream because, really, I want anyone to have the right to force my door open. Don't they know WHO I AM?

Perfect!

Isn't this a bit like the people who get mad at store clerks for checking their ID when they want to make a credit card purchase? The reason the clerk is doing it isn't because they are "out to get you" or whatever the hell stupid reason.

Did you mean "after using the key to get in the back door after the front was stuck"?

That isn't what the neighbor said, who called 911: they saw a person wedging into the door. Or, were the cops casing the joint just WAITING for him to do just that (duh duh DUHHHHHHHHH theme music.)

Quit playing semantics with me, ya pansy ass pansies.

Yeah, I'm sure cops never hear people try to talk their way out of stuff with complex excuses.

Yes, but I think there's not much disagreement over whether Gates was being an ass; just whether he should have been arrested.

I'm talking about the arrest, not the cops coming 'round in the first place.

Wow! look at the racial bias...

http://www.timesunion.com/Shared/Gra...13aec51_TN.jpg

Shaw123 - you Rock!

Arresting the man was a mistake. I dont like the thought that I could have my liberty so easily taken away from me.

I may have been wrong about that. I don't remember now where I saw the thing about the back door.

It's common sense and a life-lesson not to mouth off to cops! Duh.

Unless it's really essential, which I don't think this was.

Seriously. The trouble I've avoided just by being NICE?! Priceless. Yet, no cost to me.

Plus I show due respect unless I really have a reason to do otherwise.

Asshats do the opposite.

Any of you ever had to bust into your own house? I have.

What would I have done if the cops showed up to arrest me?

First of all, I've lived here five years. People around here know me (and I'm so far off the beaten track that there are no strangers), so the odds of being reported are zero, but let's say it happens. What would I do?

My first inclination would be to assume the cop was at the wrong address (again, I'm in the woods at the end of a gravel road that's at the end of a gravel road - convoluted road schematics and damned few road signs). If he insisted that I identify myself, I'd show him my ID, then go into my office and whip out my mortgage papers.

What's so hard about that?

Oh yeah, I don't have a male ego. :rolleyes:

I've broken into every place I've lived, at one time or another. I'm forgetful. :blush:

:eyebrow:

As per the transcript linked above, Crowley called the wagon after verifying Gates' identity. He should have been gone at that point.

Then Crowley's ego/attitude is at fault, here.

Right-o. Time to give that cop the boot.

http://obeygiant.com/images/2008/08/...oot-poster.jpg

They were probably both a little wrong. Police once upon a scene need to be in charge to maintain order - period. Gates acted like an ass and got treated accordingly. Race was/is inconsequential except to those who want to see it. Watch COPS or any of those shows - People of all races act like this and get treated the same way - no matter who/what they are.

Cops need to be in charge, until the situation is resolved. Once it's resolved, there is no need to be in charge any more. Once the guy proved it was his house, the situation was over. The cop should leave then.

The investigation was still under way when he said keep backup coming. He asked for the Harvard police, which sounds like Gates showed a Harvard ID and not a Drivers license. I doubt a Harvard ID would have his address on it.


The cop was working with the information that there were two suspects. The second might be holding a samurai sword to the throats of Gate's grandmother, three babies and a kitten in the attic. The cop doesn't know at this point.

No evidence of racism.

The person who made the original 911 call did not identify the people who broke into the house by race - she could not tell from wherever she was. Certainly not a case of racial profiling.

I live on a little street in the city that only has 5 houses on one side and the YMCA on the other side. In spite of a lot of traffic at the Y, 2 of the houses have been broken into during the day within the last 4 years. Just walked up and kicked in the door. I wish somebody had called on them. I feel safer because I have 3 large dogs who sound hungry whenever somebody comes to the door.

Read a bit further down. That exchange had already happened when he called for the wagon. The Harvard cops were there (to lock the door) when Gates was carted away, so Crowley knew Gates was legit at that point at the latest.

Consider the man at the center of this scene, Here are a few items:

Since 1991, Gates has been teaching African American studies at Harvard, where he serves as the director of the W. E. B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research. De Bois, an American civil rights activist, sociologist, historian and author, was an avowed communist and also a socialist sympathizer

Serving as director for the Harvard institute immortalizing Du Bois, Gates cultivated black radicals to his race studies department, most prominently bringing in Cornel West, a controversial adviser on Louis Farrakhan's Million Man March with close ties to socialist and black extremist groups. West is a declared personal friend of Farrakhan.

Gates also lured to Harvard socialist sympathizer Kwame Anthony Appiah, a Ghanaian philosopher, cultural theorist and novelist, as well as William Julius Wilson, who is close to the Democrat Socialists of America.

Gates authored two books with West, a long-time member and honorary chair of the Democrat Socialists of America. West served on the black advisory board of Obama's presidential campaign.

From a young age, West proclaimed he admired “the sincere black militancy of Malcolm X, the defiant rage of the Black Panther Party … and the livid black [liberation] theology of James Cone.”

Cone's theology spawned Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Obama's controversial pastor for 20 years at the Trinity United Church of Christ. West was a strong defender of Wright when the pastor's extreme remarks became national news during last year's campaign season.

Gates himself is a strong supporter of affirmative action and a key member of the reparations movement for the descendants of African slaves. He joined an effort to bring a class action lawsuit for reparations and reportedly has been working privately to urge political and business leaders to keep the issue of slavery at the forefront of social-justice discussions and to support his campaign for reparations.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104938

And you said it well, Shawnee.

I think there's hope for you yet. Great meringue heaps of hope if you keep writing like this.

I was just going to quote your first sentence and say that was my take on it all, too, but the rest of your para changed my mind. The good professor showed an ugly bigoted side to him -- maybe a beer at the White House with the sergeant would be just the thing to finish the affair.

And Obama's not dumb; I just wish he believed in better things. He's got this little social chip on his shoulder that doesn't become a President and I'd sure like to see him flick it off.

The last sentence summing up the cop's task -- well, that is known to come with the territory of being a policeman. It also tends to be one reason not every young policeman stays in to collect his police pension at twenty years. I've met one -- started as a football lineman, then a cop, and one day to defend his partner's life shot a man dead, quit police work, went to seminary, and ended up as the Episcopal Bishop of Los Angeles.

:)

He likes me. He really likes me.

I've seen so much of it, in my career, and I can't stand people playing victim, especially when the victim shirt doesn't fit.

If you promise not to tell anyone, I'll cop to seeing tiny bits of conservatism in me. I know that you'll see that as me getting smarter; I see it as a bit of moderation on my part. ;)

No, there's no mention of the Harvard police being there, or that they were to lock the door. The above quote follows the last section I quoted in the transcript you linked. Crowley is officer 52, not officer 2, or male patrol 3.
There is no indication that Gates was under arrest when officer 2 asked if the wagon was still coming.

The wagon call was after they called the Harvard cops, and the Harvard cops were there when they took Gates away, as they gave Gates' key to one of them to lock the door.

After they called the Harvard cops. It was still an investigation in progress when they asked if a wagon was coming. Dispatching the wagon simultaneously is probably SOP for a report of a multiple perp break in.

That's what I said. And the Harvard cops were there when they carted him away.

No evidence of racial profiling.

Someone please tell this dumbass to STF up. It is not about her and her 15 min of fame. No one gives a shit. We have your cracker ass on tape. Move along.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...pH5FgD99OENK00

For me, the question boils down to this: no one has claimed that the cop came on with attitude first. Why did Gates suppose that he could or should be a dick? Why did he just not say, "This is my residence, officer. If you'll follow me, I'll get my ID to prove that."

Cop looks at ID, apologizes for the inconvenience, explains the reason they are there if Gates asks, tells him they were just watching out for his property and safety, and leaves. No incident.

Having a king sized chip on your shoulder, even though you are within your rights, makes you a dick. A scholarly, educated, Harvard-tenured dick, but a dick nonetheless. And before anyone says it, yes, being a dick is legal. Covered by the First Amendment.

And now, I'm gonna say something, and you can all call *me* racist.

Having a major fucking attitude is verging on being a cultural imperative in the African American community - or at least a significant percentage of it. Making goddamn good and sure *everyone* knows that you are The Shit, all that and a bag of chips, seems to be foremost when asserting one's presence in the world. You don't have to actually *have* any substance to you, but everyone on the planet had damn well better treat you like you do, or you're gonna get even more attitude. And all of that respect is due up front, BTW, no matter how big a piece of shit the person may turn out to be.

So fire away, folks. Tell me what a racist, bigoted fuck I am. Personally, I don't see anything in what went down in the first minute or so at Hahvahd that day that warranted *anyone* being a dick, but then I generally don't get why people seem to feel compelled to be dicks to begin with...regardless of their racial heritage.