Australian Businessman Accused of Spying by Chinese Govt
 

This is shaping up to be a diplomatic nightmare for Australia and could potentially end up involving other countries who trade with China. Basically an Australian mining exec was 'detained' by Chinese officials under suspicion of stealing Chinese trade secrets. There are rumours that it's all connected to a mine purchase by a Chinese company in Australia although these rumours are unfounded atm. The man has been detained now for 7 days without charge, and China has yet to utter a word to Australia - at any level - with regard to anything other than the accusation.

There are calls for the government to get involved, and over the last couple of days there are calls for the business community to begin imposing it's own 'sanctions' on trade with China. China is our main trade partner with regard to coal and iron ore. I personally don't see the mining companies getting on board with this. They'd stand to lose too much when they're already struggling.

From the Sydney Morning Herald:

The link doesn't work.

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Here's another one with different info

No sense getting all in a lather over 4 people when there's billions of dollars at stake. :headshake

I would disagree.

This whole issue merely points out the duplicity of the Chinese government in any dealings with the freemarket. It is all ok until they think someone else is making a profit or doing it better than they are.

When dealing with a corrupt regimen, things like this are bound to happen sooner or later.

I wonder if there isn't something more going on.

Historically, the Chinese have a record of playing hardball in business that makes Bernie Madoff look like a boy scout car wash team. I wonder if this isn't a stage in a plan to push down resource prices.

In general, their cultural assumptions about what constitutes fair dealing and reasonable behaviour are often quite different from ours, and there is no particular reason why western assumptions should prevail, especially in a situation like this.

Further, the present Chinese regime is still quite secretive, xenophobic, and totalitarian - so it is not unnatural for them to regard things like contracts and resource prices as state secrets.

Resource prices were at a peak a year ago and have since fallen dramatically. Chinese buyers have been putting downwards pressure on Australian resource prices. Well, naturally.

But interestingly, although China's production of steel has fallen, their imports of iron ore have not. (Similar ratios are true for other base metals.) They would appear to be stockpiling iron ore. Why? A few possible reasons:
(1) They prefer to hold a big pile or iron ore than a big pile of US dollars, since in five years time the iron ore will still be iron ore, but the greenbacks might well be just paper.
(2) They are building a strategic stockpile in case of war.
(3) They are building an economic strategic stockpile to improve their negotiating position and force the price of iron ore down.

My guess is that (3) is most likely, or a combination of (1) and (3). And so I wonder if this incident - which may have been personally approved by Hu Jin Tao, according to media reports - is part of a large scale game plan to get leverage over resource prices.


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Do you have any idea how hard it is to make a tinfoil hat with corks bobbing around the brim?

I thought this article made a good point.

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com....p_in_mandarin/

Just had a quick look at their website and Internet Censorship is the main cause at the moment. While definitely worthy of their attention, there's a bit more at stake here, I would say.

One of the comments from casimendocina's link.
Amen.

These points open another whole can of worms.

OK, so he paid or offered bribes to get his project moving. Let's assume this is a fact.

Do you know that it's a fact that pretty much any major project to do with mining in almost every country other than western democratic countries includes in the budget, money for bribes to officials just to get things done.

Here's an example.

Last time Dazza was in PNG, he had to pay the port authority in port moresby a certain amount of money or they wouldn't allow their boat to leave the port. This was by customs officials. People you would think would be inclined to follow the law, but no, that's not the case.

Corruption and bribery are simply a normal part of the business proceedure in China. I'm sure it's probably true what the Chinese govt are accusing this man of, but he's obviously pissed them off somehow - and most likely in a way they don't want known publicly - so they're charging him for a crime that he's committed and has probably committed many times during the normal course of business as punishment for whatever else he's done. maybe he paid off the wrong person, or didn't pay enough, or threatened to go public with something. There is such a huge amount of money at stake with trade relations between Australia and China, and Rio Tinto is one of the leading players.

As it is in just about every other country in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East.

South America too.

Yea, I forgot that one, and Central America.

Of course, no one ever bribes a government official in OUR contries, right? :right:

I bet it is far less common than it is in those other places. And if it does happen it is done through legalized means, and even those opportunities are being reduced.

Of course they do. lol If they get caught they get to spend some time in the big house though.

Poor Gordon. :D

Bribing through legalized means???????????

yeah...legalized bribery is a bit of an oxymoron really isn't it? lol

That's what I thought.

I'm sure Merc will enlighten us. ;)

Sure. Examples are all around you. People grease each other in business every day. Through perks, business arrangements, kickbacks, commissions, etc. It happens in politics all the time EVERY day. I approve your local zoning or building permit, you get me a free membership at the closed golf community. I get your bill passed and listen to you tell me how to vote, I get that huge campaign contribution. I get you free drug samples and you push my drug on your patients. I can't think of some aspect of commercial enterprise that does not have these arrangements.

I let you build a mine here...you give me $300 000. :lol2:

Over here, anything like what you've suggested is meant to be reported to parliament as a gift and if it's anything dubious, there will be questions asked.

Our defence minister recently had to resign because of very similar issues, and no one really know if there'd been any impropriety, but it still looked bad enough that, combined with other issues, it put him out of a job.

eta: the minister didn't declare the 'gifts' he'd received which was one of the big stumbling blocks for him.

We have had plenty of the same issues. I think it is less common than it was even 10 years ago but I am sure it still happens. Most recently Ted Stevens from Alaska was on trial for it. In the end he got a new house and really got off pretty easy, but lost his long running powerful seat in Congress. There are thousands of other examples.

For sure there are. I've no doubt politicians over here get kickbacks we never find out about too, but as you say, I think it happens less frequently.

It's still not legalized bribery though. ;)

Yea, those would still be in the illegal category. But there are plenty of examples where it is legal, for example the use of campaign contributions, perfectly legal, perfectly bribery.

OK, I'll give you that one.

Got any more? :)

Drug manufactures giving free meds to docs to use for give aways while at the same time expecting them to buy inventory and prescribe the drug they are pushing at the office. I see this all the time. Oh and they bring the office lunch 2 times a month. (about 45 people).

Or equipment manufactures sending people to conferences when they buy their stuff, and these are golfing conferences or in really expensive resort areas.

I was thinking of campaign contributions, too.

Or brown paper bags stuffed with cash, that's the Queensland way, right, Ali?

Our whole local city administrators all have free access to an exclusive golf course. Guess who voted to allow them to build the golf course and give them a long running tax break on the property? I wonder how that happened?

Oh up here you don't even need the paperbag. Just give them your bank details. lol Make it easier for everyone.

I thought we were talking about government. I think private enterprise is different. Not necessarily right, but it's not illegal.

Obviously your administrators like playing golf. ;)

You are right, which I why I call it legal bribery.

Until just recently, Germany allowed German firms to take bribes they paid in foreign countries as a tax deduction... even bribes paid in Europe.

A few key phrases from a brief article on the issue which confirm Aliantha's comment on the issue. (http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/...hina-minister/)

'Mr Smith (Foreign Minister) said Mr Yang stressed China's relationship with Australia would not be compromised by the detention of Mr Hu, a Chinese-born Australian citizen.

"Both of us have been at pains to make the point that we don't see this going to the wider relationship, which we regard as very good on the economic front," he said.'

HEH! Well there you have it. In the good ole USA it still lives...

http://sbk.online.wsj.com/article/SB...608875685.html

Ooooh...scandalous!

A Rabi sold my kidney.