Any grapic artists willing to help a fellow cellarite?
 

My family is considering moving to Florida. We'd be able to buy a house there for cash. Last year we paid off 100% of our debt including credit card debt, student loans, and the car. With no house or rent payments, we'd be able to pay our regular monthly bills very easily. I could do it with virtually any job.

This might give me the opportunity to finally get out of IT and to start that Hot Dog cart I've been talking about for years. My wife hates the idea, but with a situation like this, I can get her to let me run the business without freaking out. She'll still complain until she starts seeing money come in though. I don't know if it's the way she grew up in Vietnam, but she thinks anytime someone has a business idea, it's a waste of time because "If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it". I never said running a business would be easy. Just that I could do it, and with enough work and luck, I think I could be good at it.

I don't think the "Reservoir Dogs" thing will play very well in Florida. That's pretty much a California thing with the movie industry. I'll probably go with the name "Horn Dogs".

The front of the cart I'm going to use will have customized graphics so I wanted to get something that looks nice.

I was hoping to get a drawing of a dog blowing a trumpet or bugle. In my head I see a blue background with yellow lettering and graphics with the horn and dog sort of stylized so it's sort of a single line and a curly font that compliments it.

I quickly threw something together using clip art but it's not what I want for a design. I was just hoping it would give someone kind of the feel I'm looking for.

If any of you are good at this stuff, I'd be happy for any help you could offer.

Here's the quick mockup I made to just sort of show the style I'm looking for.

They have rednecks and NASCAR in Florida, are you sure you want to do that? A lot of rednecks. :)

That's true, but I'll try to stay out of Datona. Parts of Florida are nice. It's the least Southern state in the South. It's got more old New Yorkers than Cubans or rednecks. :)

I think a dog with horns would work better, but that's just me. Like a jackalope, but a...dogalope. But not with antelope horns. Maybe bull horns...on a crazy dog's head.

A dog with horns would be perceived as a horny dog, not a horn dog. :)

I looked it up and Florida has a dog chain called "Hot Dog Heaven". I don't want to go with something boring like "Paul's Beach Dogs" or anything like that. I'd like to go with something fun and creative.

Dude, Florida has as many rednecks as Georgia and Alabama, no matter where you go. How's your spanish? Be sure to move to a populated city. You might consider the Jacksonville area.

My Spanish is actually pretty good. So is my Vietnamese. I used to be pretty good at Japanese, but the more Vietnamese I learn, the less Japanese I can remember.

I'm looking at Orlando.

Probably you've done this already, but check the city ordinances with respect to things like dog carts. I suspect they aren't very amenable to that sort of thing.

I have friends that spend much time in Orlando, I can ask them if they've even ever seen a dog cart.

I've always associated dog carts with more urbanized areas.

Actually dog carts are common in Florida. My uncle Manny runs one in Ocala, Florida. The place that manufacture's the cart I'm buying is in Orlando.

The way it works out there is through zoning. You can't sell dogs in a residential neighborhood. There are designated areas. You need a state and city business license and a health permit. You also need to register your cart/trailer with the DMV.

It's more of a dog stand than a cart anyway. I mean you can tow it behind a car or truck, but it's not something you push from place to place.

I'm still hoping for someone with artistic ability to help out with the logo. I guess I can just pay for it, but I thought it would be cool if someone from here made it.

I think you should have a little cartoon dog playing a horn.

I took a picture from the web and made some quick changes in Gimp. The horn sucks, but you get the idea.

Being the new millennium's version of the Joads might not lead to the results you expect. Exhaust your opportunities where you are before you travel 2,500 miles on a dream.

You're not the only one thinking this way.

(I am aware that this balances unwell with the immediacy of your situation, and the fact that California's economy has been circling the bowl for a while and is in that stage just before the last suck and gurgle.)

Just do it. The worst that could happen is that you have to find a job back in IT.

Yeah, I am with Perry. You have nothing to lose in this situation. I think it is a smart idea.

A move out of California to an area with a lower cost of living is a solid idea. I'm less convinced the hot dog cart will bring in the money you think it will.

You could visit rkzen too... maybe shack up for a few days at his place.

I got it

http://cellar.org/2009/hotdogsupplycart.png

lmao

That's not bad. I like it.

That looks strangely familiar.

Hey with these carts, do they come with a seat, or do you have to stand all day?

No, the cart operator justs sit on his buns all day.

Quick, in what movie could this be seen in the background (towards the end of the youtube.)

I'll help you.

Though you so don't deserve it.

Logo Master.

Will you be making a donation to the tip jar in lieu of payment to the designer, Radar?

*

any graphic artist with half a heart surely will tell you my friend
any hot dog cart that falls apart surely will come together again...

When I think of art museums and jazz, I think "you know, a hot dog would be great right about now!"

Or maybe that's baseball games and hockey games.

;)

lol

Let's see if I can convince you. Even an average place on the street will sell at least 100 dogs a day. If you make a deal where people can throw in a drink and chips for $5 (Jumbo or Spicy Dog) or $4.50 (Regular Dog). I'd charge $4.25 for a Jumbo or Spicy Dog by itself and a $3.25 for a regular dog by itself.

Let's look at costs.

Hot Dog - $.35 for regular $65 for jumbo or spicy
Bun - $.20
Condiments - $.15
Drink - $.27
Chips - $.20
==============

Total Costs for Jumbo Combo = $1.47 for a profit of $3.53

Total Costs for a Jumbo Dog = $1.00 for a profit of $3.25

Total Costs for Regular Combo = $1.17 for a profit of $3.33

Total Costs for a Regular Dog = $.70 for a profit of $2.55

Since we are worst casing this, let's say from the 100 dogs sold 50% got the combo and the rest got only the dog. Odds are it would be more than that, but we'll use that.

Let's also say that only half of the people who got dogs got the jumbo dog and the others got the regular dog.

25 x $2.55 (regular dog w/ no combo) = $63.75

25 x $3.33 (regular dog combo) = $83.25

25 x $3.25 (jumbo/spicy w/ no combo) = $81.25

25 x $3.53 (jumbo/spicy combo) = $88.25

====================================
Total Profits Per Day = $316.50
x 6 days a week = $1,899.00 per week

Let's say we take off $99 per week for other costs (napkins, propane, etc.)

This makes $1,800 per week.

If you take a month off for bad weather, days off for doctor's appointments, or other stuff....

This is $85,800 per year.

If I do some special events like high school football games, farmer's markets, etc. I'll sell a lot more than 100 per day, but hopefully this will convince you.

I hope I'm so busy I don't have a chance to sit down. But I imagine I could bring a folding chair or stool for slow times. They key is to hit lunch rushes in industrial parks or do special events that are super packed.

I've always heard that the food trucks that hit the county fairs every summer make a killing.

Thanks.

They do, but it's kind of a closed market in the major fairs, because the same people set up with pretty much the same vendors every year. You have to break in to that one. I learned this from a cow orker who was in catering.

I don't have a job man. If I did, I'd hire a designer.

I will donate dogs to anyone from the Cellar who visits, and if the business takes off, I'll pay 1 full month of costs for the site.

I recall hearing that as well. Surely radar doesn't want to be on the road like that anyway, but I would imagine the profit with low overhead would be similar.

Oh, and now I'm craving elephant ears, sugar waffles, those weird taco thingies, and fresh cut skin-on fries in a cup. :o

What about costs for taxes, insurance, wastage, (healthcare)? Kickbacks to the local plods, and licences you may need?

I was thinking about the dog with horns on it. It made me think of another good name.....

DEVIL DOGS


Florida already has a chain called Hot Dog Heaven, so Devil Dogs would be a natural competitor. ;)

I like it. More hot-doggish. :)

Licenses, permits etc. will cost about $300/year max.

Healthcare will be purchased from the profits. My wife and daughter will be employees and I'll deduct this from my taxes at the end of the year for however much of my income gets reported. ;)

It looks like it's taken....at least in Idaho.


http://www.devildoghotdogs.com

It doesn't have to be a huge amount -no-one will know how much. But all we know right now is that you refuse to hot the tipjar on principle, and yet you feel entitled to ask the comminity you refuse to support for help. I'm not saying you shouldn't get help/you don't deserve it, just that a token gesture would be nice.

You never know, if you become more a part of the community in the holistic sense, maybe you'll wake up one day to find a shiny hot dog cart in your drive, with dwellars names on little pieces of paper taped all over it! maybe.

In four years you'll be able to pay the cost of a one year permit for a spot in front of the Met. See post above
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/..._dog_du-3.html

While I doubt I'll find a shiny hot dog cart, you've talked me into making a small donation from what little money we have right now. Done. I never thought of it as supporting the community. I thought of it as paying for one guy's overpriced hosting. I can see your point so I made a small donation.

That spot is worth more than the $326k they paid. But for that kind of money, they should have exclusive rights. I believe the one who paid for the right to the spot should have exclusive access. It probably makes close to that amount of money every year.

In Florida they have a place called "Ham Heaven & Devil Dogs". I'm not sure if a hot dog cart named "Devil Dogs" would be considered an infringement on this name.

http://www.merchantcircle.com/busine...s.941-923-2514



What do you guys think is best? Horn Dogs? or Devil Dogs?

I never thought i's say this, but... you rock ;)

You'd think so, but there are about 5 or 6 carts there. The regular dogs are 2.00 and the giant ones are 3.00 as I recall. Sodas are 1.50, chips 1.25.

I'm usually there on rainy or cold days when business is slow. Sunny, warm, summer, lunch, I bet it's insane. Still, that's a lot of dogs... Next time I'm there I'll make some photos of the carts.

Those are cheap dogs for NYC. My guess is they are that cheap because there are so many carts. If there were a single cart there, you can bet you wouldn't get a dog for less than $6

Or underpriced, royalty-free business ideas.

Why am I having deja-vu?

So noted in the logs
Brrrrr its cold down here ;)

If I go with "Devil Dogs" I could use a graphic of a hot dog with horns, a pitch fork, and a goatee saying "They're sinfully good!" or "Eat Me!"

On the menu I can have some specials like


Double D - 2 Regular Dogs, Chips & A drink - $6.25

Red Hot - Spicy Polish Dog, Chips & A Drink - $5.00

Angry German - Bratwurst, Sour Kraut, and Deli Mustard, Chips & A Drink - $6

Flaming Mexican...aka Latin Explosion...aka Jot Dog - Jumbo Dog w/ Jalapenos & Nacho Cheese, Chips & A Drink - $5.25

you get the idea....

I could challenge "Hot Dog Heaven" to a taste contest every year or sponsor a dog eating contest like Nathans. :)

It would be good business for us both.

How about "Satan's Weiner"?

j/k...I like Devil Dogs.

Well, Radar wouldn't want to rest on his laurels now would he?

A friendly mascot dog would be more flexible for branding. You could have an entire family with specials that duplicate the 3 Bears sort of thing: Daddy Dog is a big combo, Mommy Dog smaller, down to the Puppy which is just a hot dog. Some people think hot dogs are summer fun food. Me? Not so much. Not ever, no never, would I eat off a cart. That said, Legal Seafood has a nice history to their name and perhaps something along those lines could convince the cautious among us to try one. Good Dogs?
There are a couple of ideas tickling my imagination but I have a bad cold and can't think things through. If I recover soon enough then I'll send some sketches.

Sweet makes a good point re: branding. Who is you audience? bible belt families or girls gone wild on spring break? The devil might appeal more to the latter sensibility.

Yeah food in nyc as a rule is much cheaper than anywhere else. Leaving out the ultra fancy places. There is a ton of competition and an enormous distribution network. The volume can't be matched.

It's a hot dog with horns. I doubt even the most whacko Christian zealot would be put off with the name.

I actually lightened it up.

I was considering calling the Angry German the Hitler, and offering Italian Sausage & Peppers and calling it the Mussolini with other combos named after other famous residents of hell. Perhaps one named after Jesse Helms. ;)

Hey Radar,

I'd like to make a few suggestions as someone that makes regular moves, often 1000 miles or so away, every year. Most of the time to completely unfamiliar places not knowing one single person there.

1. You spearhead your dream business venture. You go down to FL yourself, alone. Make a pact that you'll go there first for some specified period of time ( say a month ) and get on the ground information that you'll need to get this thing going.

Keep your mind thinking about all the tangent issues that will affect your business while you're there. There are the obvious details and the not so obvious details. Be a sponge of everything going on there, even those things that you don't believe will be of value at the moment.

"Game" the situation in your mind every few days. What if this, what if that. How might this help, what might hurt my business?

Go there and do the doing. Don't go and look around. You want to make a real go at this, then get your gear prepped and go sell them. Don't wait for everything to be perfect, test this area and that area. Look for anyone selling dogs or anything similar that you might learn from.

Don't wait for everything to be completely set up before you start. Can't start without a license? Fine. Then find a place to push the cart empty as a test to see how many people seem interested. Minimize your risk.

Do your test marketing in different areas. You want to experience what it's like to do this business? You want to see the potential pitfalls before it costs you real money? Then pick a spot away from your intended target area and practice where it wont hurt you.

Have some little thing to sell besides dogs and tell those people that approach you and your doggie cart " Oh, I'm sorry, all out of dogs at the moment, would you like a Coke?"

Keep track of every variable and log it. Study everything before you go live. Even people that might be kicking you out of any given area will be a learning experience for you and will yield some informational benefit.

Worst case if you get into confict with the local law enforcement, you explain you're from Cali and just got laid off. Have a few pics of your wife and LOTS of pics of your baby girl.

"Just trying to keep my wife and kids from starving Sir. Life is rough in Cali nowdays."

Other vendors might think you're a jackass and kick you out of their area but you most likely will not get into any real trouble.

If that happens try to conceal that combative side of yourself. :blush: Just leave while learning what you can.

2. Transportation. Drive to Florida. Don't fly. You will need a car or truck to haul your gear around. If you have an older car, take the passenger seat out and put it somewhere safe. You can install it later. What you need is something very common looking that you can haul your equipment around in that doesn't scream "I'm a business!"

Disassemble the cart to fit where the death seat used to be. If you want to do this with the least risk you don't need a fancy car and looking pathetic can work in your favor.

Drive the car to Florida and sleep during the day at the rest stops. It'll save you money and you'll be uncomfortable but safe. Driving at night is more efficient and you wont have to protect your dog cart from people that might believe it's something they might take to the pawn shop for some cash.

As you drive the long journey you'll have plenty of time to think. You'll also be uncomfortable. That's a part of the benefit. Comfort comes later. Now is the time for the work and the cheap living.

Once you arrive in your target area, maybe staying with a relative or friend start observing. Don't worry about what you look like with a dog cart in your car, you can push the cart far away from the car when you are selling in live mode.

If the cart fits in your car your chances of success are much greater because you can do that completely independantly without hassling anyone else with YOUR dream business.

People might laugh at first but when your biz takes off you can politely tell them to go eff themselves.

This will also test your resolve.

"I look like a complete jackass with a dog cart in my car. Passing motorists look at me cautiously out of the corner of their eye. Am I crazy for even doing this?"

If the answer is yes at the moment you can pack it all in and head back home. It's a long drive so it wont be something you can do quickly in a weak moment.

Call your wife and baby every few days while your spearheading your dream biz. When you have a good day, call and let your wife hear in your voice that it's going to work. That it is in fact working. Don't tell her in words, let her hear it in your voice. When you're having a bad day don't call.

The best evidence of success will be the fistfulls of cash you'll be bringing back. Until that money materializes you will be your own cheering squad. Do not underestimate the importance of keeping your morale up on your own.

At the end of your "setup" period you'll either have made money or kept the experiment from costing you a small fotune. Either case you can keep the respect of your wife ( if that matters to you ).

And, at the end of this entire trip you will have learned enough to make moving your wife and baby there much easier. If you do move there you will have a great deal of confidence of making this work. Most of the guesswork you will have already dealt with.


So, while I do believe that this is a terrible time personally to try something like this I do realize that there are many people, like you, that may actually be able to make this work.

A few years ago a friend told me about this really cool biz that he was getting into and is doing well at it now. I would never have guessed that he would. I do know that I personally could not have.

Hopefully you will find something of value in this and I wish you the best of luck.

Thank you very much for your thoughtful and insightful advice Slang.

I've moved more than most people ever will. I probably moved more than 20 times before I was 21. A couple of those moves were coast to coast...well almost; New York to California and Las Vegas to New Orleans. I drove from Las Vegas to New Orleans in 26 hours without stopping. I was young and stupid and would never do this again. I was in a pickup truck with most of my worldly goods loaded in the back and I thought if I stopped to sleep at a rest stop, the truck would be empty before I woke up.

I don't have the cart yet. I planned on getting one in Orlando. The best one I've seen is manufactured there and isn't as expensive as those made in California. This eliminates the need to tow it there. Any dog cart would be WAY to big to fit into my car.

Like you suggested, I planned to go ahead of my wife and daughter so I can leave them here with her family members for support. I will stay with my aunt Linda and uncle Manny. Uncle Manny has a dog cart that he runs in Florida for extra retirement money the government doesn't know about. Hot dog money = cash.

Uncle Manny only runs the cart 2 or 3 days a week. My plan was to work the cart with him for awhile until I feel comfortable, then work his cart on the days he normally doesn't and split the money with him. Then when I really felt that I have the business down from scoping out locations, to doing prep work in the morning, making really good dogs, sausages, brats, etc. to doing cleanup and storage at night, I'd go ahead and buy my own cart.

My dad will probably go there with me if possible.

While in Ocala, we'll take fairly frequent trips to Orlando to check out spots for the business, and places to live. He'd also be looking for work in Orlando. He's a maintenance mechanic and electrician. Maybe Disney needs someone like that. They don't tend to pay well though.

I figure I'd be there 2 or 3 months before we really get settled with an apartment. Then I'll bring my wife over. She'll have no problem getting work at nail salons. I will stay in an apartment for 6 months or so until I feel really confident in the business and acclimated to the area.

Then we'd buy a cheap house for cash (less than $80k which isn't tough in Florida) or put a very large down payment on a house so our payments are next to nothing.


I've already spoken to uncle Manny about the licenses and permits required and they're not tough at all. I've been reading books and listening to CD's put out by people who run hot dog businesses with tips and suggestions and what to expect.

My wife isn't confident in the hot dog thing, but once she sees the money, she'll be on board. Last year I worked with my wife to pay off all credit cards, student loans, personal loans, and our car. We are debt free. I intend to stay that way.

The good news is since we have no payments, our cost of living will be very cheap and we'll be able to swing the bills without much problem, especially if we've got 3 working adults in the house since my dad will be staying with us.

The bad news is this is going to KILL my mother. She will accuse me of doing it to hurt her. In the end, I've got to take care of my family and that's more important than staying in a state where I can't make it just to make her happy. If I could afford it, I'd take her with me....though my mom and dad can't be near each other without blood.

Since I'll be starting off with uncle Manny's cart and using his licenses, I won't have any problem with Johnny law. Uncle Manny says he'll take me by city hall to get a map of all the zoning so I know where I can setup. Then I'll tour those areas and look for what I believe is the best spot and get to work.


I appreciate you taking the time to make such a detailed post and it's got a lot of really great advice. We think alike more than you think...which might frighten you.

-Radar


P.S. - Thanks for the luck, I'll need it.