The American form of Government
 

That's a really interesting video.

Great video, Bruce.

Listening led me to this- most interesting

The Romans were smart.

I like it. And women should wear veils?

What a pile of crap.

That should be your new usertitle

what exactly marks it as a pile of crap?

Their definition of left vs right, 30 seconds into the video.

What marks it as crap?

Asked and answered.

He's not talking about left and right as found in American politics, he's taking about the types of governments that we witnessed at work in the world and the fact that the biggies have the same goal of total power.
What's wrong with the definition given?

No you didn't answer it at all. What piece of information do you not agree with? What specifically is incorrectly explained? How could it be done better. Anyone can call something crap, it takes a little more to actually suggest you have a valid argument.

Yes, I answered it. The definition of the right vs left dichotomy given is a complete fabrication which has absolutely no basis in political theory or even dictionary definitions. It is meaningless Rush Limbaugh garbage, and can only be taken seriously by people who think Ann Coulter is highbrow reading.

Since the definition is the basis upon which the rest of the video is bases, the rest of the video is gibberish as well.

QED.

Other than the fact that fascism is in fact a far right ideology, by any standards save those of perhaps Sean Hannity and Limbaugh?

The definition is unmitigated crap, and reads no differently than the tards at Indymedia trying to claim that the Bush Doctrine was no different than Nazism.

Equally amusing, according to this, anarchists (the vast majority of whom consider themselves leftwing) are apparently on the far right.

Its faux-libertarian garbage, the sort of petty rhetorical shift one finds in the works of von Mises and the type. Unfortunately for them, it has no standing in political science or analysis.

Pretty much.

So you disagree with his opinion that the political spectrum should be viewed as total power to no power, and dismiss the point of the piece, which is an explanation of the difference between a Republic and a Democracy, out of hand? Or do disagree with the differences stated?

Yes.

So does every reputable political science instructor and Websters, to boot.

It's a propaganda piece, and a rather clumsy one at that. Only this, and nothing more.

You disagree with his description of the difference between a republic and a democracy?

Dunno. I shut it off when he assaulted me with the first round of bullshit.

What's the point of continuing, once you've established that it's a badly done propaganda piece? Besides, the difference between a republic and a "pure" democracy is - or should be - known to school children. I do not need to have it explained by a man who just proved himself to be a liar, or a fool, or both.

Propadanda for what purpose? That doesn't even make sense.

Conspiracy theory much?

That's what I thought.
You'd think so, but that's not true I see, so everyone that doesn't meet your preconceived notions "is a liar, or a fool or both". But you don't know if he was right or not because you didn't watch it.
Thank you.

Propaganda for the libertarian pov, of course.

There is no rule saying that propaganda can only be put forth by the ruling party.

Sorry. There is, as E.E. Cummings said, some shit I will not eat.

Well, there's a solution for that.

Once I smell shit, there's no reason to taste it, you know?

So you're saying that, after seeing that video, I might change my entire ideology?

I saw it as a theory, another pov, and hardly akin to what I might see as evil prop.

But what do I know?

I did not click the link and watch the video. But I understand and agree with TGGR's point that there is a limit to what I am willing to put into my head, just as there's a limit to what I'll put into my body. What's more, all of you here are the same as me in this respect, albeit with different levels of what is taken in.

An easy point in the evaluation of the video producer's point of view is at the beginning. The American Form of Government, right there in the title. Some will read that and decide they've had enough, moving on, thankyouverymuch. They've made their decision about how much of that message they wish to take in--very little. Others will read the title, watch the video, and decide that they've gotten all they want of the message, and not bother seeking more. TGGR has done exactly the same thing, but the point at which he made his decision was part the way through the video--click.

We all do this. We all regulate what we take in. And there's certainly plenty of room for spirited discussion about the quality and the quantity of that content. I read and listen to the news a lot. Some people think I give too much attention to the news. Just ask SonofV as we ride together and negotiate what radio station to listen to.

The proverb "Don't judge a book by its cover" has merit. But it is possible to judge a book by a short summary.

I, myself, can't handle vague opinions from people who didn't bother to watch.

How very shortsighted. In fact, I'll go so far to say that those opinions from people who are forming them without any knowledge have gone completely irrelevant for me. Never a post I will take into account from those, again.

Not if you don't know what the content is.

My point, and I thing TGGR's point is, that there comes a time when *enough* is known to make an actionable decision.

There are a million topics about which I know very little. Most of those topics have a depth of content that I haven't plumbed, that I haven't even skimmed. Some of those topics I disregard because I'm not interested in what I see in the title. Some I ignore because of who is talking about it. Others I don't bother with because the little I've seen is dumb. But in all those cases, we could have a talk about how much is too much and what is crap and what is not--even knowing little about the content.

Are you suggesting to me otherwise? Does your world have no gossips? No busybodies? No clueless bosses talking out their asses? No salespeople promising stuff they don't know about? No relatives that know more about your life and how you should live it than you do? Really? Then I'd like a ticket to your world, please. Because in my world, people talk all the time about stuff they don't know about. I'd like to vacation in xoB land. It would be quite refreshing, I imagine.

Yeah, I got that. But you said; My response is, there is too much spirited discussion by people that don't know what the fuck they're talking about, because they couldn't be bothered to find out what the content is, or decided they knew by some magical powers. I see it in the media, the real world, and here in the Cellar, people who become an expert from a sound bite.

There are many things I'd rather not see or hear. But I don't comment on content if I can't be bothered to check it out.

Really, it could have warranted spirited discussion, from which I hoped to glean some ideas. The horsey side blinds don't impress me.

I do.... what a load of garbage

OK,so finished reading the rest of the posts after that... if you didn't watch the whole thing, you probably should before commenting further. Yeah, it's propaganda, but it is well worded and in the main summarizes stuff pretty well.

But then...

it goes on to give an example of democracy vs a rebublic in a Wild West scenario.... and it turn into utter BS at that point.

Democracy would not have lynched the guy on the spot-that's scaremongering BS. Just because all present were in favor of hanging the guy, that does not mean the majority of socity is. there would have been a trial, same as with the "republic" The video claimed Democracy but showed Oligarcy.

They not only would, they did, repeatedly. The posse/ lynch mob only work on the consensus of the people present. If 50% said hang 'em and nobody forces them to stop, they hanged 'em.

Once I hear someone lie to me, I don't need any further information from them.

Actually, democracy was pretty good for that.

Google "Ostrokos".

I did watch. Until the bullshit got too thick.

It's interesting how you conveniently ignore that fact.

Meh.

A spirited discussion is possible without it being an informed discussion.

What if the posse represented the society.
Thanks. We got that already.
Welcome to the interwebz :rolleyes:

Not according to Shawnee.

Now there's a source! :lol2:

Sorry, I wasn't aware that I wasn't supposed to respond to her.

You and Classicman should warn people about these rules in advance.

How about you guys both go fuck yourselves? Could you do that, hmmmm?

Fucking assholes should be banned for being fucking assholes. At the very least, merc's constant spread of shit ought to be seriously looked at.

So your approach is better, to talk down to me like I'm a blithering idiot? That does not give you any credibility here, not with the mostly thoughtful and thinking persons here whose opinion means more than just a big pile of steaming shit.

Oh, and go fuck yourselve. Better yet, fuck each other. You can whisper sweet shit to each the entire time and it'll probably be the best sex you've ever had.

And EAD.

Well, that was an interesting little outburst.

Take a step back, Shaw. They aren't the reason you're angry.

Thats good advice Shawnee, however, Merc is the true asshowl around here, so I know where you are coming from and why you responded that way...;) .

:rotflol:

They may not be the whole reason for my anger, but they were huge contributors to the cause. Seriously, wtf was that? And this TGGR guy, what's he, like Asshole Runner Up in case TehMercenary can't fulfill his duties of King Asshole?

Fuck. That.

Eh, I think we got through our problems a while ago. ;)

Some people, though, you can't be nice to.

Yeah, except that I'm not a raging neocon.

Sorry TGRR. I see now that you really had little to do with the whole mess.

I'm bowing out.

Those are not always the problem. The problem are the few who only have a sound byte and get attached only to that sound byte. They cannot expand beyond and embrace a larger picture.

Many with soundbyte knowledge use it as bait to attract larger knowledge. Not everyone does that.

I can't understand how a person can logically claim to have valid input in a discussion if they're not informed on the topic ie. they've watched the video or read the OP etc.

So you think it's crap. Fine, but don't waste bandwidth starting an argument if you don't even know what you're commenting on.

Merc...did you really have to?

Again...if you watch long enough to see one major lie/distortion, you've seen enough.

Yeah, and if you keep arguing even though you're uninformed you look like a dick.

cheap/They respond to polls a lot too/shot :right:

What do they call that thing where you carry 1,000 pounds of your most heavy-handed bias into every exchange of information, thus allowing you to make instant snap judgments based on almost no tangible informaton whatsoever, thus guaranteeing that your body of knowledge remains a stagnant, static platform from which you can shout hollow proclamations of superiority?