Anonymous Mom, No Dads, + 14
 

needed it's own thread.

Seriously.

Pisses me off even if she were in a stable marriage and had cash...it's irresponsible, and I bet she thinks that is her only purpose in life.

Her oldest kid is around 7, I think, which means she could be as young as 20.

Someone should glue her legs together.

Looks like the "fertility treatment" wasn't just drugs, it was implanted embryos. Given her previous fertility success, I'm betting this means dad is dead, in jail, had nut cancer, or is somehow incapacitated on the sperm front, and they had saved some with the intent of having a baby together.

I found a family portrait. Artist's rendition.

Looks like it could be a kindergarten class.

Do a time progression: some of the kids should be robbing a Stop and Go...a couple crack ho's, and a priest.

Its all good - we'll all be paying to support them - Isn't that grand. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...






Like I'm about to Puke!

Weeeell... I think it was irresponsible of her as well, but I have to say, I don't think this is a poor family on any kind of assistance. The mother's parents seem to be pretty well-off. Aside from what looks like a decent-sized home in Southern California, they say they're going to live in a second house once the babies can leave the hospital:

They also can apparently afford to hire the nanny who was interviewed. The article has since been updated to say that they're not actually sure whether it was implanted embryos or egg-stimulation drugs, but even the drugs are still pretty expensive and not covered by insurance. Poor people usually get knocked up the old fashioned way.

She's going to need the Partridge Family bus just to get around.

This kind of crap seriously pisses me off. There are too many damn people on the planet as it is, and this woman pops out EIGHT BABIES, when she already has SIX KIDS? What kind of doctor would give fertility treatment to someone who already has SIX KIDS? :mad2:

I'm sorry, but some people should just be shot. That kind of thinking needs to be taken out of the food chain. We are not dogs and cats having puppies and kittens. The doctor who gave her fertility treatments should also be shot.

I love kids. I'm like every kid's aunt (I've had 22 years experience IRL.) :)

But yeah, this lady ticks me off too. Is hoarding children under the realm of hoarding illnesses in the DSM IV? I only have the III.

Hoarding cats isn't in the Big Book of Crazy, either.

Big book of crazy...lol.

In your professional opinion, should it be? In the big book I mean?

Doesn't somebody have a duty to do a background check before going ahead with a procedure like that?

On top of that she was already in some kind of financial trouble. Now she can multiply that times 8.

Meh... it's not illegal to have a stupid number of children. (It'll probably even get you your own television show.) But seriously, would you have been okay with it if she happened to end up with only one or two babies from the procedure, for a total of 7-8 kids? That many kids used to be relatively common, even. They strongly advised her to reduce (i.e. abort some of them) after they found out how many were gestating. She chose not to. You can't force an abortion on someone.

Where did you read that?

It was on the TV last night. I will look around.

I wouldn't. We have got to put a curb on birth rates. The planet simply cannot continue supporting the population that is here now, much less the rate of growth. Do you realize the population has doubled since Kennedy was president?

We need a good metorite strike. Clean things up a little.

I would also suggest that one at a time would allow you to take stock. At the very least because you'll have to find the time to go and and find someone to knock you up, while leaving the first seven at home.

You might find both your body and your common sense (wass that?) kick in after the eighth or ninth. Before the 14th at least.

These kids which will bring notoriety and "financial assistance" certainly sounds like a crazy plan to get out. Hell she'll be featured on shows like Oprah and they'll pay for all kinds of stuff for her. Instead of helping those who REALLY need our (taxpayers) help we'll instead waste money on people like her.
Well said.

And the kids get these kinds of things:

Selfish. Very selfish.

Population growth is hard to curb and a full out attempt will most likely cause a backlash just as great as the original problem. Not to mention that we are going into the world of telling how many babies a person can have.

Though, I do believe we should work on curbing population growth, but we have to be smart and rational about it. Another large part of this is that we need to become much more efficient with food, water, and energy. We need to start investing massive amounts into those sectors (engineering in general) if we want to avoid major problems in the future.

The plot sickens:

This is, of course, all hearsay.

(Grand)Mom didn't support the idea either.

Article here.

bizarre

Seems unconscionable to me.

"a perfect mom."?? By what definition???

I think in this new age of Socialist Capitalism and the Second Coming, Obama needs to finally make a law that requires permits for pregnancy of any kind. I would support that.

...

omg...I love that movie, and that line. Awesome, HLJ.

Oh, wow.

She already had the embryos, but even at the rate of roughly one baby every year (six kids, ages seven and under,) she was already 33 and time was ticking by. So she found the one doctor who would implant them all at once. I take it back, she's not just irresponsible, she's got a psychological problem.

I don't know much about it, but I have heard that some women get 'addicted' or tied into the baby stage of motherhood. Maybe this woman has a problem. What I can't get my head around is the doctor who would carry out such a procedure on a woman with no fertility issues (clearly) an already large family and then implant so many embryos.

That's the thing, she did have fertility issues--all of her previous six children were conceived through in vitro as well. She created and froze a bunch of embryos all with the same sperm donor, and has been using them ever since. No word on how many embryos they implanted in the previous births (she had one set of twins, but the rest were singles,) maybe they had reason to believe that only a couple would actually implant. But 8 is still unethical.

While I believe in personal freedom and I believe people should basically have the right to do pretty much whatever they want, as long as they aren't harming anyone else or doing damage, I have no problem going into the territory of forced control of the number of kids people can have. My god, if you want more, adopt. There are plenty of poor, unwanted kids out there.

Yes. I believe we need to get serious about alternative energy and electric cars. Instead of importing so much food, we should be supporting local organic farmers. We need to start making things in this country again. Shipping massive consumer goods all the way from China and India is just not efficient.

fixed
Ramen.

I don't want ANY doctor making a decision for me on how I should live my life.

I want a doctor to tell me the risks involved (in the procedure, with my lifestyle choices, whatever). If, at that point, I choose to go ahead with (the procedure, with my risky behavior), then I want that doctor to do his best while treating me.

Are you really willing to advocate letting doctors impose their morality on patients?


ps...not picking on you, Dana, you just worded that really well...

First, do no harm.

No surprise, she's on disability, for a back injury. Apparently she gets $27,500/year.

Onyx...I'm just curious: how do you feel about assisted suicide for terminally ill patients?

Don't put your reproduction in the hands of doctors then.
Ummmm - yep.

Mebbe it's a European thing.
Not being as religious, we tend not to have a deal with the soul kinda thing. Which is why stem cell research is not such a big deal over here.

Let me just have a little conversation with myself here.


I looked up the Hippocratic oath after making that post above. Turns out it isn't in the oath, although similar language is. One interesting thing is that the oath seems to prohibit a doctor performing abortions. The original text is below, translated into English:
So I wondered if there was a modern version of this oath. It seems that there are many modern versions, and each school chooses its own.

I just knew it had to be something like this. So who paid for the procedure then? IS she on some type of Gov't funded insurance?
PLEASE tell me we didn't pay to create this situation too. Please?

Hmm. I never really thought deeply about it. Off the cuff I would say that I don't agree that suicide should be against the law. I think if you want to kill yourself, you should have to right to do that.

That being said, I don't think anyone has the right to involve another person into it, (ie kill me). If you want to off yourself, go home and take some pills, don't get your doctor in trouble.

But again, I haven't thought deeply about it, so I may change my answer at some point.

So those women who are infertile...too damn bad for you? So...you can't go to a doctor for abortion now?

I'm not talking about a soul kind of thing. I'm talking about doctors not having a right to make life decisions for me. If I want 30 kids, and I can pay for the procedure, that's all my doctor needs to know. It's not his right to make a moral judgement on my life. I expect him to tell me that's not a good idea for my body, and explain the physical risks of carrying all those children, but I don't expect him to say "No, I won't do it because I don't think it's good for the planet." or whatever else bullshit reason. It's not his call. He can choose not to treat me, and that's ok, I'll find a doctor who will.

Same can be said for abortion. If a woman went to a doctor for an abortion and he told her no, she can't have one on moral grounds, you'd be having a fit. If she has a right to an abortion, she also has a right to have as many kids as she can.

Thanks. I was curious if you were against assisted suicide, then that would be sort of like believing a doctor has a moral obligation to not help a person in that situation, thus a doctor imposing his or her morality on the patient.

That's where I was coming from. :)

I can certainly agree with that. The problem here is that the doctor did go ahead and endanger both her life and the lives of her soon-to-be children by implanting 8 embryos in her.

Small family, big family - not the doc's business. 8 embryos at one time - violation of medical ethics!

From my understanding, they implant multiple eggs as a matter of course, and a fraction (if any) actually survive.

It's very possible he implanted 8 but expected 1 or 2 (if any) to make it.

Of course, it's all speculation, but I'm going on the assumption he wouldn't risk his medical license for this.

A doctor isn't a mechanic. You don't just pay your money and tell him what to do. He has to make a judgement call as to whether he is assisting or harming his patient by continuing. Someone who is addicted to plastic surgery can sit and listen to all the advice in the world and then decide to have surgery that is unnecessary and potentially harmful. It's entirely the doctor's decision as to whether he wishes to be complicit in that self-harm.

Wanting to have babies is all very well. Implanting large numbers of embryos at a time and risking a potentially dangerous multiple pregnancy was a very dubious course of action for a doctor to take.

I can't give specifics, but all articles I've read concerning this issue point to the fact that most fertility experts believe they implanted way more than was ethical. Also, following your reasoning, they must have implanted a dozen or more.

A doctor is absolutely a mechanic, except the vehicle is a human body, the most sophisticated, complex machine ever designed.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3D2%26hl%3Den

She paid her money, and they performed the procedure. They SHOULD NOT make a decision to treat based upon THEIR idea of acceptable.

Again, I believe that's a standard procedure, which is why all these women are having four, quints, sextuplets, etc.

OC, you of all people (being pro-life) should believe that the health of the babies comes into play. What if a parent wanted to pay for ill-advised plastic surgery on their 5-year-old kid? The doctor advised her on the risks to her body of carrying eight babies, but there are very real risks to the eight babies as well. (And you can't say her decision is equivalent to having the right to abortion, because these children are going to be born, with a high risk of birth defects and other disabilities.)

I'm pro life, but I'm also pro personal responsiblity. I will *not* force other people to conform to *my* standard of right and wrong.

And I think this issue does relate to abortion. So...it's ok to kill unborn babies, but not ok to let deformed babies live? That's eugenics.

I do, however, understand the point you're trying to make. Was it right for her to irresponsibly have more babies? Not in my view, but my view is irrelevant.

That still doesn't change my point: it's not the doctor's call to make. In fact, he told her to abort some of them when he realized she was carrying so many, due to the risks of deformation, etc, (which I give him credit for) and she declined (which she has the right to do).

In short, this doctor did everything right. The brood mare, however, needs a reality check.

But do NOT put doctors in the position of treating a patient based upon their moral views. That is a long, steep, slippery slope.

(eta)
Once the doctor realized that she was carrying 8, if he was able to enforce his morals (or medical opinion) against her will, he would have terminated a few of those babies. What gives him the right to make that call?

It's not ok for doctors to induce a medical problem.

Hello? Am I on? :eyebrow:

Then they shouldn't do abortions, either. It's a fact that over 65% of abortions cause complications (Infections, scar tissue, etc) in the mother.

You can't have it both ways.

Yes you are, I was responding mostly to Dana on those points that I quoted.

:)

Many doctors make that decision every day.

I wouldn't. But I'm a guy. I have no problem with a doctor making a non life/death decision on his own moral grounds.

But thats just "off the cuff " as you put it.