Made in America
 

Not so fast...

I think most of knew this information but this is the first time I have actually read objective data about it. So for anyone who is interested I am linking the article. We do a lot of flag waving when it comes to buying "American", and I support that, but things are not always what they seem.

What Is an American Car? These Days Its Hard to Tell, and That Could Snag the Push to Save Detroit Auto Makers

Could there be a more American vehicle than a "Jeep Patriot?" Nothing on four wheels says American more proudly than Jeep, the rugged brand that helped America win World War II, and has ferried millions into our wild, Western spaces since.

See if you know which vehicles were made in America with our quiz.
Yes, in fact, there could be a more American SUV than a Jeep Patriot. A Toyota Sequoia would be one of them. The Sequoia is 80% "domestic" according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, while the Jeep Patriot is only 66%.

"Buy American" is back on the agenda in Washington. Congress is debating proposals to require that contractors on projects financed by the economic-recovery package buy "American" steel.

The Treasury has pumped billions into two of the three American car makers with head offices in and around Detroit, hoping to avoid a collapse of what industry and political leaders call the U.S. auto industry. There's lots of talk about the government supporting American efforts to develop electric cars and batteries, and some federal programs already established to do this.

When it comes to the car business, however, consumers and Congress and the Obama administration are going to confront a tricky question: Just what is an "American" car, or for that matter, an "American" car company?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123265601944607285.html

Hell, if you buy Cutco knives you're buying American. We don't even subcontract the stainless components of our forks and spoons to Korea any more.

I don't think that most Americans are willing to work for the hours/wages it would take for the rest of us Americans to buy things at prices we think are fair.

Well, that's a free market.

Unfree markets make black markets... necessary. Then you get creepy shit.

I love my Cutco's. Sharpest hunting knife I have ever owned.

I don't buy anything from multi-level marketing companies.

Raaaaadar -- if you for one nanosecond believe Vector is a MLM, you know nothing about MLMs and can't tell the difference. We're about selling the product -- not selling dealerships, which is the essence of MLM.

Are you even smart enough to buy Cutco? So far, what you're saying is you aren't.

Do you generate your own leads?

Yep. Every independent contractor working in Vector Marketing (which is all of us in the sales force) does. Cutco makes 'em, Vector sells 'em, ALCAS owns both and Ka-Bar besides.

We all run our own businesses, but we still have the structure and knowledge of the big company to help and to back us up. The company's website also sells, but specials aside, which go to catalog customers, it's all at list price. The sales force comes in because essentially this product needs to be put in the customer's hand before they're likely to buy for the first time. It's a product that calls for a one-on-one demonstration rather than an infomercial or a fair-and-show kind of live-action infomercial demo. Particularly in view of safe knife handling. Cutco'll go right through a finger.

We don't like to hire former-MLM guys -- they have bad ethical habits that don't work in our culture.

Hey Merc, what's the item number on your hunting knife? Is it the Fifties-looking design with a hard handle or the Kraton-handled Outdoor Knife?

This one in a serrated edge.

http://www.cutco.com/products/produc...itemGroup=5718

Why not?

Do you get paid for recruiting other Cutco salespeople?

Well don't most foreign car companies have plants in the United States? At least some of them do, like Toyota and BMW. They employee American workers, so I would have no problem buying a Japanese/German car. Besides, they are just BETTER. :D

I have Henkel knives. The ones made in Germany, not the international brand. I think the Germans and the Japanese make the best knives, and I don't mind paying for them.

I try my best not to buy crap made in China, because it's crap. We might have really cheap products now, but we have sacrificed quality. And I refuse to shop at WalMart...

That's essentially how Cutco sales office managers get paid, according to a formula that is weighted towards encouraging managers not to quit recruiting -- because one fact of the managing part of the business is you have no idea on the first day of rep training just which ones you've hired will be consistent successes. This is not MLM, but sales management work, in an office that is your own.

However, you do not advance in the business by selling dealerships under your aegis to assorted wannabes. That isn't our corporate structure nor philosophy -- we've always been about selling product since Vector itself got going about 1971. Cutco Cutlery has been around since 1948, and tried several modes of marketing before arriving at Vector's method, which outcompeted everyone else's in the varied sales force.

Can a sales rep bring in another recruit and thereby get a bonus? Yes he can -- after the recruit he brought in starts to really succeed (it's determined by his recruit's sales amount and this amount is set company-wide; it's a standard). This is not the focus of the business or the effort; it is secondary or tertiary, unlike the case in MLM where you make the big money by hiring a network of guys to fill sales offices under you. It's not so much a compensation for getting some guy in the business as a bonus for bringing in somebody who's actually good at the business. And the rep that recruited him has to stay active in the business himself, so the bar's rather high. Cutco/Vector does its dangdest not to hire dopes, mooks, or shoegazers (though reformed shoegazers reinventing themselves get their shot with Vector Marketing). The rep's real money is in doing the demos, cutting manila rope and strips of leather during them, and taking the orders.

Selling stuff has its intricacies; this is one of them.

Always did like the drop-point. Seems easy to use well. My taste in field knives runs to the straight edge for ease of sharpening no matter where you are. It'd be different in an environment where I'm cutting a lot of rope and cordage, though -- ship or city, like. There I'd likely go with the fancy DD edge.

JA Henckels are the best you could get in a store. I go up against Henckels' quality every working day of my life, and eighty percent of the time, I win -- by what Cutco can do, compared directly with Henckels. Henckels doesn't offer Cutco's kind of guarantee, either. I suppose they think it's a little too hard to manage across an ocean.

Cutco guarantees, without needing you to jump through hoops of any sort, its sharpness -- forever; against defective manufacture -- forever; a half price replacement guarantee if you've damaged your Cutco -- forever. Only guarantee with a time limit is a two-week trial period where the customer decides whether he'd rather keep the knives or his money. We cheerfully call it the Think-About-It Guarantee.

Henckels' guarantee isn't that good: against rusting only. Heck, it's made of stainless, it's already not supposed to rust.

ummmm, I believe you are wrong about that, but I'm not positive. I'm pretty sure though. Henkel's are one of the preferred knives by most professional chefs.

My mother burned her Wustof by leaving it in the oven. She called and got a replacement, free with no questions asked. I've never strayed from them, even when working in restaurants.
Perhaps I'll give them a try.

Wustof is the other preferred brand of knives used by professional chefs. I've never used one, but I hear they are great.

I also know someone who had a knife replaced by henkel, no questions asked. I can't remember what happened to it though. And I'm not so sure the International Brand has the same warranty as the ones that are Made in Germany, which mine are. The IB is a cheap imitation of the original.

All the great chefs use Ginsu knives.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I will buy all the Henckels people don't want at 50 cents on the dollar.

UG, you work for Vector for a living?

UT, it's my income, yeah. I keep the details private. I'd happily fix you up with some Cutco, inasmuch as I know you eat solid food!

Henckels works if you keep maintaining it, as their RC hardness runs about 49-50. You need to sharpen it much more often than Cutco, which goes Rc 55-57. The fancy edge (the DD edge) for all practical purposes won't go dull for years unless you're whittling trees down with your kitchen knives. (Hint: chainsaws mo' better)

Wüsthof is good quality too, and their blade design is improved of late. I tried my MIL's chef-knife from them some years ago; it seemed reluctant to get into the work for all its good balance and hand-feel, which I attributed to a very thick spine: the blade cross section was extremely wedgy and the edge was a wedge grind rather than a hollow grind. They seem to have slimmed 'em down a good bit now, which was exactly what they needed. Maw In Law's knife was built like a bayonet. Helluva tool for a slasher movie.

I love my Wusthof (correct spelling) knives . The handle is larger which accommodates a larger hand. I have owned mine for several decades and they perform extremely well. Knives that all have a serrated whether it be a bread or french or filet... immediately show their imperfections. You do not want a serrated edge for many applications.

UG, with all due respect to your privacy, how can you generate enough leads to make it worth your while?

I don't like serrated edged knives either, except for cutting bread or tomatoes. I do have a very small Henckel that works really well on tomotoes that I usually use though. It's wicked sharp. And isn't sharpening part of the whole chef experience anyway? I like sharpening knives... :D

The sous chef at the country club would wipe his knife on his apron, while cooking furiously. Once he had it at just the wrong angle. Damn near sliced his leg off.

My knives are crappy. A sawing motion is needed.

Nothing beats a Cuctco knife.

BS.

I just went on my favorite knife site. They carry everything.

But no Cutco knives. What's up with that? :confused:

Is it one of those deals like SnapOn tools?

I forgot to add IMHO.

Pretty much - you can only buy them from UG.

Well, you know what they say about opinions ... :rolleyes:

I fully accept that fact. And there are few things in life that are worth throwing yourself on your sword for.

Well, you could always look at the Cutco website. The shears on the first page you see aren't cheap, but brother do they perform. Mine are eighteen years old and they are not merely in tiptop condition, they are freakin' unchanged. We have to test these things for wear using cardboard strips. Cardboard is very mean to scissors by itself -- and we have to add a ten percent silica content to the cardboard just to get wear we can measure!

We deal factory-direct, no distributors, no anybody else -- and we reckon it the kind of product that takes a hands-on, one on one demonstration to really sell it, so it primarily goes through the sales force. Includin' such as me.

Classic, with all due respect, you ain't even seen what the stuff can do, let alone felt it at work. Cutco's something you have to feel.

UT, we have our methods. :cool: We have, after all, been selling Cutco on word of mouth since 1948. Vector Marketing becoming Cutco's sales arm in the early 1970s was because of its selling knowhow. Cutco makes 'em in its Olean NY factory, Vector sells 'em, Alcas Corp. owns both -- and Ka-Bar Knives besides.

Merc, well, a few things. It often works better from your point of view if you throw the other guy on it.

I still say they are the best around, IMHO. They stay sharp, and the one I have is used exclusively for cutting up game.

I spent nine years in restaurants specializing in French saute'. Please do not underestimate my knowledge on the subject. The Cutco knoives are fine for most average people who will use it sparingly to cut a few veggies and whatnot for their family's dinner. We would regularly chop up to 50 lbs of mushrooms, onions and assorted other vegetables every day for weeks and months on end. Add to that the slicing of prime rib 5 nights a week... Puhlease - I know damn well what I am talking about. We blew through knives on a monthly basis.

They are a fine blade for Joe or Jane homeowner. In my opinion, for those that want to step up into the big league there are only two players: JA Henkels and Wüsthof.

A nice story about the Cutco organization.

Great to know. I am looking at upgrading our kitchen stuff, I will definately check those out. Thanks.

They make swords?

mmmmm... I love to eat great food. Wanna get married? I'm REALLY good in bed, and I LOVE giving head... :p :bj:

I am more than spoken for.

Oh well. I had to try... :D

Cheater.

What? When have you ever cooked for me? :p

What is "more than spoken for", yelled at? :haha: