Bush Commutes Sentences of Border Patrol Agents
 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090119/...h/bush_pardons

WASHINGTON – In his final acts of clemency, President George W. Bush on Monday commuted the prison sentences of two former U.S. Border Patrol agents whose convictions for shooting a Mexican drug dealer ignited fierce debate about illegal immigration.

Bush's decision to commute the sentences of Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean, who tried to cover up the shooting, was welcomed by both Republican and Democratic members of Congress. They had long argued that the agents were merely doing their jobs, defending the American border against criminals. They also maintained that the more than 10-year prison sentences the pair was given were too harsh.

Rancor over their convictions, sentencing and firings has simmered ever since the shooting occurred in 2005.

Ramos and Compean became a rallying point among conservatives and on talk shows where their supporters called them heroes. Nearly the entire bipartisan congressional delegation from Texas and other lawmakers from both sides of the political aisle pleaded with Bush to grant them clemency.

Bush didn't pardon the men for their crimes, but decided instead to commute their prison sentences because he believed they were excessive and that they had already suffered the loss of their jobs, freedom and reputations, a senior administration official said.

The action by the president, who believes the border agents received fair trials and that the verdicts were just, does not diminish the seriousness of their crimes, the official said.

Compean and Ramos, who have served about two years of their sentences, are expected to be released from prison within the next two months.

They were convicted of shooting admitted drug smuggler Osvaldo Aldrete Davila in the buttocks as he fled across the Rio Grande, away from an abandoned van load of marijuana. The border agents argued during their trials that they believed the smuggler was armed and that they shot him in self defense. The prosecutor in the case said there was no evidence linking the smuggler to the van of marijuana. The prosecutor also said the border agents didn't report the shooting and tampered with evidence by picking up several spent shell casings.

The agents were fired after their convictions on several charges, including assault with a dangerous weapon and with serious bodily injury, violation of civil rights and obstruction of justice. All their convictions, except obstruction of justice, were upheld on appeal.

With the new acts of clemency, Bush has granted a total of 189 pardons and 11 commutations.

That's fewer than half as many as Presidents Bill Clinton or Ronald Reagan issued during their two-term tenures. Bush technically has until noon on Tuesday when President-elect Barack Obama is sworn into office to exercise his executive pardon authority, but presidential advisers said no more were forthcoming.

The president had made most of his pardon decisions on low-profile cases, but his batch in December created controversy.

Isaac Robert Toussie of Brooklyn, N.Y, convicted of making false statements to the Department of Housing and Urban Development and of mail fraud, was among 19 people Bush pardoned just before Christmas. But after learning in news reports that Toussie's father had donated tens of thousands of dollars to the Republican Party a few months ago, as well as other information, the president reversed his decision on Toussie's case.

The White House said the decision to revoke the pardon — a step unheard of in recent memory — was based on information about the extent and nature of Toussie's prior criminal offenses, and that neither the White House counsel's office nor the president had been aware of a political contribution by Toussie's father and wanted to avoid creating an appearance of impropriety.

In an earlier high-profile official act of forgiveness, Bush saved Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, from serving prison time in the case of the 2003 leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity. Libby was convicted of perjury and obstructing justice. Bush could still grant him a full pardon, although Libby has not applied for one.

Bush's batches of pardons, however, have never included any well-known convicts like junk bond dealer Michael Milken, who sought a pardon on securities fraud charges, or two politicians convicted of public corruption — former Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, R-Calif., and four-term Democratic Louisiana Gov. Edwin W. Edwards — who wanted Bush to shorten their prison terms.

Clinton issued a total of 457 in eight years in office. Bush's father, George H. W. Bush, issued 77 in four years. Reagan issued 406 in eight years, and President Carter issued 563 in four years. Since World War II, the largest number of pardons and commutations — 2,031 — came from President Truman, who served 82 days short of eight years.

He should be commended. Those guys should never have gone to prison.

Good for the Border Agents. I remember that case. Interesting statistics there at the end.
Clinton issued a total of 457 in eight years
George H. W. Bush, issued 77 in four years
Reagan issued 406 in eight years
Carter issued 563 in four years
Truman issued 2,031 in eight years*
Bush has granted a total of 189 pardons.

Guess you actually have to prosecute to pardon. Thats all I can figure. Why is Bush's number so much lower?

Bush Jr.'s rate is still higher than his father's was. It's just a question of how far-reaching one's empathy and second-guessing of the court system is. Plus, Bush Jr. is the "tough on crime" type. A record number of inmates were executed during his governorship of Texas as well.

Saved him from comuting their sentences.

Those scumbags should still be in prison. It makes sense that Bush would commute the sentences of jackbooted fascist thugs from an illegal agency who shot a guy in the back who didn't have a weapon.

I only hope they suffered a lot in prison and got raped a bunch.

Oh Please! Illegal agency? Jackbooted fascist thugs? I bet you're one of those who think we should just open our border and let anyone across! Perhaps we should have let the drug runner they shot have immediate citizenship? I don't applaud what they did to cover up the shooting, but I think we should have more border agents like them. Enough of this kid gloves approach to the border, drug smuggling and illegal immigrant problem.

Edit: I see you're in CA...hence your position of the subject.

:corn:

This seat taken? Do ya think we should warn dmg?

Warn me about what? Radar has an opinion and I have an opinion. Illegal immigration just happens to be my hot button issue.

And it just happens to be one of his 158 hot button issues.

Bwaaaahhahahahhahah

Where is that thread about cleaning the coffee outta my keyboard - Quick!

Actually, I'm a patriot who holds the same positions as the founders of America...hence my position on the subject. The founders didn't grant the federal government any Constitutional powers over immigration and they did this for a reason. They welcomed all immigrants from all parts of the world with open arms.

So yes, I do think we should allow any number of immigrants, from any country to cross our borders to live and work here. I do not think we should grant immediate citizenship, but I do think all immigrants are born with the same rights as any American citizen has other than voting, and they should be given the same due process as any citizen born here.

The man they shot was leaving. They shot him in the back. Whether or not he had drugs is irrelevant. All drugs should be legal, and since the federal government has absolutely zero powers to regulate or legislate immigration, that part of government should be abolished.

rather than watch this go back and forth for the next four days with no change in opinions, dmg - please allow me to summarize what you will read if you continue this thread:

radar: we have natural rights that do not come from the government and the government has no right to step on those rights. if your neighbor was to shoot heroin into his scrotum while giving proper meth cooking directions to 13 illegal immigrants each holding a 50cal machine gun and laughing about the small thermonuclear device they've (paid for with money they saved by not paying those pesky illegal income taxes) built to protect their batch of biological weapons the government has no right to intervene because your neighbor is simply exercising his natural rights.

I think that about covers radar's beliefs.

Actually you're wrong. There is no way they could give meth cooking instructions to illegal immigrants since all immigrants are legal immigrants.

OK. Well, now I understand your position. And I appreciate and respect you for it. I, however, disagree with it.

I also think immigrants should be allowed to enter and work in our country, but I expect them to do so legally. My maternal and paternal grandparents came from the Ukraine and Germany respectively. They did so legally by coming through Ellis Island...not sneeking across a border or on a boat that runs aground in the middle of the night.

I do not think that sneeking across the border and entering the country illegally should qualify someone to stay and/or work here. If I offer an apartment for rent and someone breaks into that apartment, should I still allow that person to rent from me? What does that say about his or her character?

If the government shouldn't have control over immigration and the borders, who should? Oh wait...you said, nobody...they should be open. Why not just give up our sovereignty altogether? Why not just merge with Mexico and Canada?

We have very different views on what it is to be a patriot, my friend. But that's OK...that's what being an American is all about!

But dmg, your views are so, so, so majority.;)

Yeah, I know...just call me crazy, Bruce.

And call me Dave.

:corn:
pass the salt.

Classic, I think experience is the best teacher. Have fun with the debate/discussion.

Merc do you like the regular salt or the herbal stuff?

I also don't like the idea of people sneaking across the border. My family came to America before there was a processing center at Ellis island. They simply showed up and looked for work, and America was a better place for it.

When immigrants were processed at Ellis island, they simply showed up, took a physical, signed their name and they were legal. If the process were still that simple, we wouldn't have to worry about people sneaking in. They would prefer to walk in the front door, than crawl through the back door.

I'm not saying that the government can't have power over immigration. I'm saying it does not currently have that power. In order for the government to have this power, the U.S. Constitution would have to be amended. As it currently stands, states do have the legal power to regulate immigration, but the federal government does not.

Open immigration does nothing to reduce or increase our national sovereignty. Nor does it do anything to reduce or increase our national security. Peaceful immigrants are not an invasion and are not a threat.

I, like our founders, know that our strength is in our diversity and I welcome immigrants from all nations to America to become part of our melting pot. America is a nation built entirely by immigrants and the offspring of those immigrants. This is the beauty of America. I can go to China, Italy, or Germany but I can't become Chinese, Italian, or German. But anyone from China, Italy, or Germany can come to America and be just as American as anyone born here. In fact in many cases, they are MORE American because they don't take citizenship for granted. There are people in this world who would run through a hail of bullets to experience the kind of freedom and opportunity we have in America.

By allowing a free flow of immigrants into America, we ensure that we have a flow of fresh ideas and new approaches to our problems. In addition to immigrants not taking our freedoms for granted, they also tend to work harder than those who have been here longer and become soft.

Historically even going back to the founding of this country, there have always been alarmists who say that immigrants won't "assimilate" or "learn the language" even though America has never had an official language. History has proven them all to be wrong. Each new wave of immigrants has brought with them their home culture and that culture has become part of the melting pot. Each of them has eventually "assimilated" into the American culture.

A Mexican immigrant who sneaks across the border at night is no better or worse than German or Ukrainian immigrants who went to Ellis island. Both seek a better life and more opportunity for themselves and their offspring. The fact that one of them followed an unconstitutional procedure and the other didn't is irrelevant.

If the people of America want to amend the Constitution to have powers over immigration, then so be it. I just don't want our government to violate the Constitution or ignore it, and I don't appreciate people being falsely labeled as "illegal" immigrants when they have not violated any legitimate or Constitutional laws.

Amen.

Regular, but I hear that Old Bay Seasoning on it is very good too.

Do try it. Or Mrs. Dash Popcorn Blend, which is roughly the same idea.

And try Old Bay over butter on corn on the cob.

Wanna custom build your seasoned salt? Drop the herbs of your choice into a coffee grinder. Either powder the herbs and pour them out (reserving these) and then run a good fistful of coarse salt or kosher salt through the grinder and use the resulting herbed salt, or taste test and see if you need to put more herbs back in there for the desired flavor. When you're happy, store tightly covered.

Well, Radar, we will have to agree to disagree. I would counter some items in your last post, but going back and fourth isn't going to change your mind or mine. I stated my opinion and you stated yours and we'll leave it at that. Good debate though.

Libby was top of my list for full pardon. After all, he was Cheney’s man. Have been too busy to see the list. Is Libby not on the list for full pardon? If true, that would completely surprise me.

For 18 posts, you already have his number. Well done and welcome.

Surprise! :headshake nope still not there.

I think Bush refused the pardon to thumb his nose at Cheney.

Thanks, Merc.

I may totally disagree with someone, but value their opinion and like to debate them.

I've been lurking for months now and just starting to post. Thanks for the welcome.

While I respect your desire to agree to disagree. I'm still interested in which parts you disagree with. From a legal standpoint I'm 100% correct. I'm also 100% in line with our founders. So this begs the question as to where exactly we disagree.

I will concede that neither of us is likely to change the mind of the other since we clearly have strong opinions on the matter.

I'd just like to know where actual disagreement lies.

You don't have to answer that, my Central PA homeboy (Harrisburg born and rasied)

First...a quick shout out to Undertoad! I was born and raised in Enola and currently living in Perry County, but I work in the 'burg.

Now, Radar, I will state the various areas where we disagree.

First, your overall theme that the Federal Government doesn't have the authority to enforce immigration because it's not in the Constitution. While that may be true, techincally, I urge you to contact your U.S. Senator, Representative and The President. Apparently, they disagree with you.

Second, you say it is not a matter of national security. I counter with asking you what happens when a terrorist enters the U.S through an open Mexican border with a suitcase nuke.

P.S. Mexico is tougher on people entering their country illegally from South America than we are.

Also, you say that it does nothing to affect our national sovereignty. Sovereign by definition means supreme power over a body politic and free from outside influence. How can we be a sovereign nation and not decide who enters its borders?

I agree that diversity is our strength. No arguement there. I am the grandchild of immigrants. I also agree that many Americans may take the freedoms we have for granted because we have not known the harsh life many immigrants have had.

I also agree that peaceful immigrants do not harm our nation. However, if we cannot control who comes into the country...how do we know they are peaceful. How many murders have been commited by illegals (I know you hate that term, but they are illegally in the country) only to have them flee back to Mexico? How many DUIs caused by drunk illegals without a license to drive kill Americans? It's in the news all the time.

I agree that immigrants offer ideas and new approaches to problems. However, I do not think we need to have a "free flow" of immigrants to have the same quality of people immigrating.

I think that learning the language (English) should be mandatory. I don't know how the fact thatwe are an English speaking nation does not make it the official language. Try going to most non-English speaking countries and try to get by without having at least a grasp of the language. We should not have to offer all of our services in Spanish or any other language. What's next, Portugese, French, German, Arabic, Hebrew, Ebonics?

I have no problem with people bringing their culture with them. However, does it make it OK by your standards for a man who follows Sharia Law to kill his daughter or wife because he says they did something to "dishonor" him or the family?

"A Mexican immigrant who sneaks across the border at night is no better or worse than German or Ukrainian immigrants who went to Ellis island." I disagree. The Mexican immigrant entered the country illegally. Those who came through Ellis Island did not.

I think those are all the points. You asked where we disagree. There you have it.

Thanks. Keep in mind that all federal laws pertaining to areas not enumerated in the Constitution are automatically void so no immigrant is violating a law when they cross without documentation or notification of the government, so they are not here illegally.

fixed that for ya. ;)

Hmm.

Since Mexico is so tough on people entering illegally, wouldn’t that make it extra-hard for international terrorists to come from that direction? I suppose a terrorist could opt to lug a nuke across hundreds of miles of desert...or, he could just simply fly into an airport and pick it up from one of those big cargo containers no one ever checks. Or even easier, take a train from Canada with a duffel bag.

How do we know, indeed. One day, in the future, we’ll be able to determine who are destined to become criminals...while they are still in the womb! muahahaha....

Anyway, incidents like this make the news, national news even, because they don’t occur very often. Especially relative to how often such crimes are committed by U.S. citizens. In my opinion, dmg, you are being an alarmist.

And do you really believe there should only be a certain “quality of people immigrating?” That didn’t happen at Ellis Island. It was pretty much a free-flow there.

It may seem that way in Central PA, but fact is, we are not strictly an English-speaking nation. Spanish was the first widely-spoken European language in our land, and has remained common in many parts. Hundreds of Native languages were spoken before any immigrants arrived, and many still are today. However...learning English in the U.S. is already mandatory, non-officially. Immigrants know it, and they do it sooner or later. I realize some like you think it should be a law for some reason, but there’s no need. I suspect the reason may be that you are just not comfortable hearing a language you do not understand. Don’t worry, they probably aren’t talking smack about you. ;)

That’s a pretty extreme example to use. Are you sure you have no problem with cultures other than your own?

Yes, blue. I am an alarmist and afraid of other languages and cultures. You caught me!

That's a good argument dmg. You argue like someone else around here.

No, I seriously appreciate the psychoanalysis. I wasn't even aware. I might even be a rascist and not know it! ;)

;)

Silly wabbit.

There's a story somewhere around here about a guy who was a lesbian and didn't know it.

In my opinion this is unnecessary.

:notworthy:

Baby...you're the greatest! :p

You know...I've long suspected I might be one. I find myself looking at women, have unpure thoughts and even experimented once. :D

"If I was a girl I'd be a slut. A lesbian slut."

--Bubba (Tim Blake Nelson) in The Good Girl

It wasn't an opinion. I stated a fact and it didn't require fixing.

He knew it was nothing more than a good natured ribbing from another thread. I didn't mean anything more than that.
Not intended to offend.

Another dead end discussion about the validity of illegal aliens.

Merc...SHHHHH, don't say the "I" word. I should have asked if "undocumented" is acceptable language.

I find it to be a fascinating discussion. Radar and I have completely opposite views, but its still interesting and informative to read.
(till we call each other names)