The Bible Is Bullshit
 

Hey look I can post some random series of videos without any of my own commentary accompanying them too! Just like RK used to! We're following in the footsteps of greatness here d00d!

Did the videos I posted seem random to you? Perhaps they wouldn't if you had actually watched them.

The videos I posted were in line with the topic, funny, clever, insightful, witty, and true.

I think the 'commentary' exists in the title. I enjoyed the videos.

Yes they seemed random to me and I actually did watch them, I enjoy Penn & Teller and George Carlin. Thread creation in a discussion forum 101: you should do so by presenting a topic, spelling out the facts, and then give your own opinion preferable outlining your own arguments as justification, not just regurgitating someone else's thoughts with nothing to add of your own. IMO anyway, threads like this are exactly the reason rk is no longer with us, pointless threads where all he did was act as a mouthpiece to other people's thoughts that he agreed with adding little to no original thought to it, then acted as if he was actually contributing something useful with his posts.

As for the topic apparently at hand, you would be on the floor laughing if you heard some of the stuff people say at my conservative, evangelical university. I laugh and shake my head at it all sometimes. One guy tried to explain to me that the whole universe was made of water and some of it compressed and formed solid matter but not all, so when the Biblical Flood happened, that was excess water from the universe falling onto the earth.. the whole approach of creation science kills me. They start with a conclusion and then seek a hypothesis and "experimentation" to support the conclusion, which is not exactly how the scientific method works last I checked. Arguing that carbon dating is useless, etc. It's also humorous to hear some of their "facts" supporting the idea of Biblical inerrancy instead of infallibility. Thankfully it's mainly the students that go down that path, the professors and doctors in my history department are much more reasonable people, one is even staunch evolutionist which is not what you typically see when one thinks of an evangelical Christian.

:eek:

Thats 'dark ages' thinking!!!

Makes me want to cry.

I just like the thread title. I think that's enough all on it's own. :)

Just say it. Some people think it and some people don't. Let's get on with our lives.

If you think it's bullshit, then don't read it.

I choose not to read romance novels for the same reason.

But I don't take the position that other people shouldn't, nor do I demand that they agree with me.

Be nice if ya could get out of the frikin links and have a look at others.

ooh, look!

http://www.desktoprating.com/wallpap...er-640x480.jpg

Friendly Rib...
 

You can tell by the sparkle in their eyes that they sense they owe their existence to a creator. [Rumi said with a twinkle in his own eye] ... :eek: :D :cool:

Radar is so full of shit squirrels from neighboring cities drop out of trees when he passes gas. Give me a break. I'm so tired of the Bible bashing and the gay bashing and the _____ bashing. Why bash? Just be cool and not sweat the small stuff. If you are so hurt you can't go without attacking a group you disagree with, go see a good head shrink and get some meds. You really need it.

Maybe he got tired of hearing how atheists have no moral values, or just that their values are in fact from God without them realising. Granted it was a provocative title...but then Radar is a provocateur, it's part of what he does. Good stuff. Personally, I liked this thread. The title made me laugh.

I didn't know the Morman thing before, it kinda puts the whole Radar persona in context.

My "____ bashing" now includes athiest bashing. Good point.

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say there's been atheist bashing ... here anyway... out in the world, though? Now that may be a different story. I don't know how it works for dwellars, but I have a couple of friends stateside who are extremely unwilling to let on to work colleagues that they are atheists, in case they draw negative attention, or damage their promotion prospects.

Now, I'm only talking a couple of people out of a fairly large group of American internet friends, but I found it interesting. If, as that seems to suggest, there is some kind of stigma attached to atheism, then that might explain the militant and slightly belligerent tone with which some vocal atheists approach the topic.

One of the things I particularly like about the Cellar is it doesn't end up in a bi-monthly, blood on the carpet, catfight between deists, theists and atheists; something which tends to happen in the other forums I frequent. That doesn't mean it won't get ...robust, from time to time. Whilst the thread titles about atheism and moral values etc weren't nasty the basic start point that atheism and moral values are somehow in opposition to each other, could be offensive to some.

*Shrugs* we all flip out at different stuff, and this is one of Radar's biggies. I used to be a little like that about religion, and my culture isn't half as suspicious of atheism as the one Radar is responding to.

Outside of the Cellar, I have great converstions with Athiests/Agnostics. Here in the Cellar they seem more charged up and ready for a fight. Not sure why they are so defensive other than they are tired of hearing the majority of America that chooses a viewpoint in opposition of theirs. Sucks to be a minority. I am one at work and in my neighborhood. Anyone want to do a virtal fist bump on that one???

it's not just that we're in a minority, but it's like being black 50 years ago ...it's ok and even encouraged to discrimanate against us, even if the law says it's not ok. FFS people want the 10 comandments in the law courts!

Whenever anyone is killed, the news report always has soundbite about how the deceased went to church regulary and was "god-fearing". WTF? You don't hear people saying "she was a lovely person, as white as they come...'

I would suspect that people are more willing to argue a point such as religion on the internet because they are not worried about reprisal. In the USA it probably will not be physical of course, but there is certainly the danger of religious people not wanting to associate with an atheist or agnostic. I would suspect that some of your conversations were great simply because they figured that they were not going to convince you and they would prefer to part amiably.

There is certainly a lot to be said about being polite, but something about the "Oh, that's nice... (back away slowly)" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. In practice though I would probably not risk starting a controversial discussion with my neighbors.

This aspect of one's religious beliefs causing myself to be ganged up on I've not really experienced until I came here.
I didn't realize from the short time I read posts before registering here that there were raw feelings and thought I'd found a cool place to be able to become friends with people I could have calm, friendly discussions with and compare our knowledge, thoughts, and beliefs as friends.

It does appear to be possible with a few, but then getting ridiculed by a others and having my intentions and statements misunderstood by others makes it hard to want to try to engage further. The internet form of communication is fraught with this. :o
I have really appreciated the great responses, and learned a few new things from our exchanges otherwise.

Don't be too put out Ruminator. Most people in those discussions met you with respect and and differing sets of views. This is a large group of people with an intimate and shifting active core. From time to time we break into groups who oppose one another on certain issues. Religion is sometimes the break point; other times it may be political or cultural. Occasionally it has even broken into groups along national lines. If you are discussing fundamentals, chances are there will be some people taking an opposing view. They then post and the thread takes on a rhythm. It's very easy from that point on, for the poster who's become the focus of that thread to feel ganged up on.

This is cool place to hang out and talk. But nor do we take prisoners in a discussion. If you bring out evidence, expect to be called on it. If you state something ephemeral and unmeasurable as unassailable fact and then take issue with others doing similarly, expect to be called on it.

Being mocked is something that'll happen. It doesn't in any way mean a lack of respect. There are people here who I think respect me but who are quite happy to tear me down in a discussion on welfare, for example. Don't worry about. This is the way the Cellar is. We are kind and warm and welcoming, but we also hunt in packs :P

As it happens, I don't think you've come in for that much stick. If anything I'd say people have been less inclined to move straight to mischief than is usual when religion is the topic. *smiles*

Arguing religion is better on the internet because if you get exasperated and walk away, you can come back later and continue as if nothing has happened.

You know, the people who make these videos often make the same mistake as the people they are criticizing: not substantiating their statements enough to convince anyone other than people who already agree with them.

I mean, is 15 seconds really long enough to summarize why, if God existed there would have to be physical proof? The air of finality with which people make such absolute statements only serves to discredit the premise of everything they are saying. It sounds like they didn't put much thought into it.

Yeah....well, even a war of ideas needs grunts :P

Thanks Dana, I'm not put out, just taken back a bit from the experience while soaking it in and feeling what its like to learn from it. Its a new experience.
You gave a great description above to an ongoing, dynamic situation. As I said above its just quite different from what I'm used to.
Your history that you included is helpful in my understanding the nature of the cellar's character.
The "mischief" you mentioned, for me, is an encumbrance to the serious discussion at hand. I think that I got less than usual perhaps because I've tried to make it clear I'm not here to bash about with my beliefs and then disappear.
I've been very pleased with being a nooby how people have posted in response to me. Plus as a bonus it looks like I am as a christian in a minority here, providing me an additional learning opportunity.


Flint, you make a very good point.

I think the Bible is a great book of faith...as well as a great storybook. Like this, from Ezekiel 22:


This shit rocks!

That description of the city sounds a lot like some modern cities today, like Washington D.C., Chicago ...
The word alien there refers to those living in the land who were not of one of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Wetbacks.

Ah God's much vaunted mercy.
An account I read recently had God make a woman pregnant with conjoined (so-called Siamese) twins. He sent them as a blessing.

Heathen doctors advised abortion, because it was unlikely they would go to term, or survive birth. But God prevailed and the two miracle girls lived. Sadly, they had to have a painful and invasive procedure, after which one of the twins died. Her experience of life was nasty, brutish and short.

Still, the parents were right, because the other girl survived and they praised God.

Well, until she also died this week.

But they praised God all the same for the blessing their daughters brought them and the fact that God does everything for a reason and obviously called them home. The odd thing is, it was the NHS (my money) that saw that 18 year old through her pregnancy, who paid the a team of 20 for the 11 hour long operation, that kept her ill-advised offspring in intensive care.

I'm all for the NHS, don't get me wrong. But it seems ingenuous to me that a teenager can keep foetuses unlikely to survive, against all medical advice, and come out of it saying to the press that it was God's will. Tax God and I might start letting him in on these decisions.

Sorry, wanted to get that off my chest.

Who the fuck said God was in on any of these decisions? Did God tell you he did all these things? Since you don't believe in God, why the fuck would you believe "An account I read recently" attributing this bullshit to God? :eyebrow:

I think her point is obviously God wasn't in on the plan, and SG shouldn't have to pay for the plan with her taxes just because this chick claimed it was God's will.

I realize she was ridiculing these idiots explaining their bad decisions as God's will... but;
I assume the Brits in question pay taxes like everyone else in the NHS, and obviously must be entitled to make bad decisions under that system.
God did not make these decisions, Brits did. God didn't created the NHS that poured resources into this case as a result of the bad decisions, Brits did.
If you give God no credit, then don't assign God blame.

I don't think she was blaming God either.

The way I read it, she simply quoted what she'd read and doesn't believe God had anything to do with it but that the woman's faith had plenty to do with it and in the end, the outcome was pretty much as the doctors had predicted.

Yup, Ali gets it.
In every account of the story I read, God was mentioned by the parents. Everything was down to God. It just got up my nose a bit that he was still being referenced when both girls were dead and a lot of time and money had been spent on them, against all medical advice.

I don't say any of it is God's fault because I don't believe in him. But his name is often invoked to explain poor judgement.

People that can't, or won't, make reasonable decisions always pass the buck. It's God's will, nature takes it's course, fate intervened, luck ran out, ad nauseum... but it all boils down to bad decisions and a system that caters to those bad decisions, no matter what their excuse.

Taxing God is impossible, and I don't think you have any say in who is involved in these decisions, since you are neither the Doctor nor patient.
If you don't think the NHS acted properly, complain to your elected representative. Tell them to change the system so these people can't waste your money.

Yeah man... I agree!

Yes. Link would have been nice.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah, me too! I agree!

You know... I agree with you.

I think you're right... I agree with that.

Yeah, I can agree with that.

Uh-uh... what you said makes sense. I'm inclined to agree.

I agree.

Me neither. I agree.





what was this thread about again.... :3_eyes:

You're too darn agreeable. :)

Yes... I agree.

Practicing my New Years resolution.

Wow. Well worth repeating!

If it wasn't God's will, then it was Satan's fault. If neither of those apply, then we need to take personal responsibility for it. But only as a last resort....:rolleyes:

You're right. I was too pissy about it and I do take responsibility for it. Sorry to anyone I ticked off.

Stormie made my point. That's awesome.

I have to live with every bad thing I have ever done. I can't give it to something that does not exist. I have to fess to it, to myself. Then make the changes that need to be made. My sins are my sins and I did not approve a god to kill theirselves for my sins. Don't kill yourself or be killed for any sin of mine. You do not have my approval. They are mine. Kthnx. I haven't done anything that bad anyway. No one needs more gruesome death to be forgiven. That is faulty thinking. I am capable of saving myself. I am capable of living with my own sins. I am capable of forgiving myself. No one needs to do that for me. It's for me to do. If I have hurt someone it is up to me to make amends, and god isn't going to do it for me.

If you disagree, may god forgive me. ;)

I know people feel more comfortable thinking that they have been forgiven by a great power. But I don't live that way. I'm not always comfortable because I have to work on my issues. I can forgive myself when I have done something about them, and an outside entity managing it will not help. That will just give me more wiggle room to keep screwing up now won't it? When I manage it myself I have good character. When I do for myself and then others why would an outside force be compelled to get involved?

Can any of you say that you don't need to be forgiven by god? I can. I can't even figure out what being forgiven by god even involves. I owe no entities an explanation. And if I do, then god itself needs to let me know, because I am currently unaware of being involved with anything that wants to micro-manage my responsibilites, my screw-ups, or my good qualities.

Yup.

I would be grateful if I were forgiven by the people I hurt.

But I also accept that sometimes the hurt is out of proportion to the action. I see that from both sides.

I have had someone claiming near-fatal hurt for something that didn't warrant it. I have also suffered for years over a hurt that was not intended and was possibly prolonged by my own sense of drama (although I believed in the honesty of physically felt emotions at the time).

You know I don't believe in God. But I also don't believe in fate, true love, luck etc. If you said my life was therefore barren I'sd agree. Apart from the therefore part. If I was beautiful, it would differ. And that makes a big difference in your belief systems. Trust me.

I respectfully disagree. Beauty does not make for a full, wonderful life. I know many utterly miserable, gorgeous people.

So what you're saying is, Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not yours?

Nah. I'm doubting the whole thing. I don't even usually use the word sin.

Maybe jesus did die for sins, dunno, but there is also no proof that it actually worked. Bad methodology.

Oh jeez. Sorry. I always screw up on the Patti Smith references.

Sundae. You are beautiful. Do you think you aren't bonny because you aren't slim like you used to be? That's total bollocks. That's like saying weight=ugly. You were a bonny lass when you were skinny and you are a bonny lass now you are not. Remember I walked through Leicester and Greenwich with you, and sat in pubs and restaurants. Men look at you. You have a beautiful face, intelligent eyes that hint at spice and sex, and you carry yourself with grace and poise. You can carry off the diva/vamp look better than anyone else I know. And you have a smile that can light up a room, or intrigue like the Mona Lisa.

The reason you may not be connecting with guys has nothing to do with the way you look, it might be to do with what messages you are giving out. That's my guess anyway. Maybe some part of you doesn't actually feel ready to let down your guard and you are subconsciously putting up the Not Available sign.

Thanks darlin' - you are a very kind person.
Probably my problems are all in my head. But it's the only one I got! ;)

I've been watching too much TV since I moved here I think.
It just seems that everything I watch has a love story. Even action films. Even children's TV.
And it's all love at first sight, and men laying down their lives for a woman they don't know yet, and professing undying love within minutes of meeting. So it's all about love based on appearance. And I'm unhappy with mine. So I get all melodramatic and let it out here.

Different next year. Promise.

What Dana said. And, sweetheart, you just need to get yourself a man full of either #1) profundities, or #2) shite, and bonk his brains out. Best. Relationship. Ever. :) Promise!

I'm having a "holiday" sale on automatic weapons if anyone here is interested.

Bargains galore.

No need for bureaucratic paperwork or the like, I'll just "miracle" the goods to you.

Sounds too pricey.

*Wrings hands maniacally* Bwaahaaaaahaaa I can finally carry out my "extreme distaste" crimes. Bwaaaahaaahaaaaa

You know what I like.

Keep an eye on the helipad Wolf.

Ah, what is the Cellar without the religion thread?

There is nothing...and I mean nothing like getting an idea in your head, mulling it over for weeks, deciding whether or not to incorporate it into your system of thought and belief, and finally emerging to the world with what you think is a solid, well thought out way of being...and expressing yourself here to be picked apart, insulted, belittled, and generally trashed.

No, nothing in this whole world like it.

And I wouldn't want it any other way.

The trial by fire will either strengthen your beliefs or destroy them, but you will not leave here (or stay here) unchanged.

And that is why I love the Cellar.

This sounds like a poorly explained version of the Canopy Theory.

Well, Creationists (of which I am one) ask the same question that the Evolutionists do, which is: how did all this get here?

The Evolutionists say that a point of nothingness exploded and out of this explosion came all matter and energy in the whole universe which eventually coagulated and became solar systems and planets. One of these somehow formed just the right mix of amino acids and protiens and through some literally unestimable random chance, life just happened, and then more stuff happened, and the life got more complex and then more complex until finally, there were people. Time is the hero of the story.

But they can't prove it.

The Creationists say that a being beyond our true comprehension created time, the universe and everything in it as part of a Grand Design, creating the solar system and planets and earth and water and plants and animals and people all as distinct types. God is the hero of the story.

But we can't prove that either.

Oh, both sides will come up with "evidence" to support their theories, but the result is this: We can't duplicate it. We can't observe what happened at the beginning. We can only take what we see now and the processes we see occuring now and try to extrapolate that back (which isn't accurate either, because things NEVER stay the same).

So the CvE question will remain a debate that depends on your other worldviews.

However, I will say this: If a person professes to be a Christian, then they CANNOT believe that Evolution is true, because it is 180 degrees of the Bible. As with many other things, there are times when you have to pick one side or the other. This is one issue that you can't believe in both.

Some evolutionists clearly take that stance, but that's not evolutionary theory.