Not owning up... and how to address the upset
 

This thread is not aimed at romantic relationships specifically, but rather any human we happen to have a connection to either by our own choice or by blood...

I have encountered a situation where I am being lied to… this I know with absolute certainty. I have given the individual (who happens to be a family member… but not my side of the family) the opportunity to “come clean” and admit to me they were wrong and work with me to resolve the issue, but they chose to lie about it directly to my face. I am at a loss as to how to approach it…

In a nut shell:

I had a bunch of fabric squares that I had collected from my clothing from the time I was 10 until I was 25 years old. My intention was to make a crazy quilt someday, but life intervened and it sat in my closet for 10 years. Flint and I lived with this individual for a little less than a month when we first got together and the fabric stayed at their house. I shouldn’t have left them there, but I did and I’ll admit I said she could use them… of course that was before we had children. Last May I asked for them back for my children… (I know they were not in use at the time). Well… she had a much cluttered house and didn’t know where they were. I didn’t follow up for several months… just busy… little people and all. Then Flint brought some puzzles over there and one of them was a crazy quilt puzzle… a few weeks later I noticed a quilt in production that resembled my fabric. I wasn’t certain that it was my fabric after all… I only glanced at it as I was walking out the door… in any case it reminded me to follow up… my plan is to make quilts for my kids and embroider on it as they grow. She brought 2 small bags over. The next day as I was separating out the fabric I noticed that lots of fabric was missing… including all the pocket squares (I saved the pockets because I thought they’d be cute… to put little treasures in). So I know there are plenty not accounted for.

Last night we were over at her house and I saw the quilt again… and it was in fact my material. It was not the time or place for confrontation though. This morning I called and asked “Is it possible that there is another bag still over there… There should be lots more red velvet, green and all the little pockets are missing” And she very quickly said… “NO… that’s all I looked through everything… there aren’t any others”. Which I know for a fact is a lie… having seen it with my own eyes. She had to get off the phone immediately after that. I didn't feel comfortable telling her I saw them.

So here is my predicament… do I confront her and show it to her when I am there for Thanksgiving… what if she is making it for us (though I seriously doubt it)… do I wait till it is given to someone else and then say “those are my squares…I thought you said you gave all of them back?”

I just don’t know how to approach it, but I’m really upset about it… both about being lied to and second that they would use them knowing I wanted them for my kids. I don't feel that I can turn a blind I to it.. and if it is a gift for someone else there will be drama for sure for years to come... I'm not really willing to let it go.

has she given you all the ones she hasn't already used?

Yes, however she used them AFTER I asked for them back...

how do you know when she began the work? is it not possible that she found her half assembled quilt while she was looking for your swatches? and left it out where you could see it?


would you like the cellar members to each send you a few swatches to replenish your lost articles? I think we might have a few pounds of fabric in storage.

And she should have told me she went ahead and used some of them them... and we could have discussed that...

I'm real upset that she is lying to me about having used the squares that I am asking for... the specific squares. And if she had started her project before hand she should have said something...

Pooka, man I don't envy you this problem. This is a tough one...family matters like this always suck.

Good luck! I hope you get your squares back, but if you don't, I hope you can somehow let it go...for peace sake.

Damn...Yeah, its a toughie.

A few pounds? Maybe a few HUNDRED pounds. :o

I'd be happy to donate. I might even find some pockets.

Flint: You'd better have your camera ready on Turkey day in case a chick fight breaks out....I want to see that shit.

How sure are you that she hadn't used them yet once you asked for them back?

Is it possible that this disorganized person had taken the pieces out of the bag and was planning to use them for a project but just hadn't started yet? Then when the bag was found again, she forgot the pieces had been removed?

In any event, I think if the relationship is one that you value, you should bring it up when you see her. Try to talk it over and iron it out. Speak plainly and honestly, but without accusations. Just state the facts and how you feel. Maybe it's all a misunderstanding. After all, you originally said she could use them. It least you will have tried to fix things.

Oh and just a random thought...

Is it possible she is making a gift for YOU?

It is also possible that she took the quilting stuff out looking for your stuff, and thinks that the bag with your stuff, is actually hers. After years our memories get all screwed up and it is quite possible that she remembers little pieces of fabric as hers and might have already manufactured a stupid memory attached to the pieces that are used. Just get your stuff back. When I see people with my stuff, using it, I always say something immediately.

Don't let a misunderstanding make you get all shitty. Talk about it immediately. Her memoories of the articles in question, might be screwed up. Say something before she uses even more pieces. She might be naively thinking certain rags are hers.

Go to the house, look for the items out somewhere and say, hey. Those totally look like my pieces, where is the rest of what was in that bag? Explain why those are your pieces if need be.

No she knew exactly what they were ... we had discussed them several times. And they are of the same material that she returned to me... just with pockets. Had she admitted she used them I would have offered to PAY her for her work.

It is HIGHLY doubtful that she would be making a gift of them for me... highly doubtful. It is a possibility... but such a VERY small one.

The problem is ... knowing she lied ... there is no nice way to approach the subject... I could ask Flint to approach her, but he dosn't want to get involved.

I guess my point is ... she knows the project she is working on is what I'm wanting back. The honest thing to do... on her part... would have been to tell me that she forgot I wanted them back, but remembered I said she could use them and had in fact begun to use them to make a quilt... and asked if I still want them back now ... I would have told her "Yes... I still want them and I'll pay you for your work. When I said you could use them it was before I had kids and had a sentamental reason for them... I'm sorry. I should have picked them up sooner."

But that isn't what happened.. she has never admited that she used any of them. There is no way she could think that the pieces she has in use are not realted to my request...

I'm flabergasted that she would lie to me about it.

No. I said I don't want to KEEP HEARING ABOUT IT.

These is what I care to hear about:

• things that have a conclusion (or work towards one)
• things that can be translated to an action item
• things that add new information to a subject

Here is what I NEVER want to hear about:

• reiterations of the same thing, with no specific purpose
• speculation about something which is based on un-knowable factors
• repeated, identical descriptions of any un-knowable something

Here's how I would handle this. Walk in there and go, "Oh, here's that fabric I was looking for." and take it home. What's she going to say? There's no way to know until that moment comes; and honestly, who cares? Mind you, I'm taking your word on all of this, but if it's your damn fabric, I pick it up and take it home. What's she going to do, tackle me at the door?

Go over there and get your stuff back. It is your stuff get it back. Don't do passive aggressive. Just get your stuff. Be polite about it, and get your stuff. Say what you wanna say. You'll feel better when you have your things back. You really shouldn't have gifted them and then asked for them back. But that isn't the point here. Tell her you know she has some fabric of yours and you need it back.

Being passive aggressive, and doing nothing for yourself will hurt worse than actually calling the bluff, and getting what is rightfully yours.

Don't let family members manipulate (in their own little way) and make a fool of you. These kinds of petty skirmishes are to be dealt with head-on.

It's easy, that's my stuff and I want it.

Say...Oh Hai...I just dropped by to get my material back. There is no question that she has it. And there is no question that she will give it to you. BE THE ADULT. :)

Some people can do nothing but lie, even if they know that you know that they are full of shit. It's some weird character flaw, but I don't get it either. Somewhere in their convoluted little head, they are counting on the fact that you're a nice person and won't say anything, and somehow that's a victory...even if you know they're a deceitful poop and they know you know. I couldn't live like that, but lots of folks do.

I agree with Flint. Go in, say "oh there it is" and take it. What's she gonna do? Confronting you would be like calling the cops to rat out the guy who stole your weed. ;)

Good luck Pooka!

Flint Honey-You know it's mine... you saw it... and if you would do that I would be so very happy.

I just want to avoid as much conflict as possible... which is why I'd prefer you approach her with it... you know I lack tact.

Perhaps you... recognizing the fabric as the same as what we have at home... perhaps you could even say something like "oh you found her fabric.... and what nice work... are you trying to surprise Pooka... thats sweet she'll be so happy"... in the very slight chance that it is indeed a gift for us... give her an opportunity to respond and if is not... let her know that you will pay her for her work, but you know I will be hurt if it is given to someone else... after all I have repeatedly requested it back from her now and she is aware of my reasons for wanting it and that it is meaningful to me that our children have it.

:corn:

;)

And next time something is going to be meaningful to you, don't give it to somebody else.

:)
"Quilters Frays"

Heh. Sorry..The pun could not be avoided.;)

You are right... but back then I had no idea... and I asked for it back long enough ago that this shouldn't be an issue... and have given plenty of opportunities for truthfulness.

Unfortunatly, anything that makes its way over there becomes theirs whether it is offered or not...just think of all the movies... I guess we just can't loan, forget, or leave anything over there and if we do I'm going to have to go there myself and get it the next day... like the cassarole dish I sent you for recently.

Very puny!

25 years from now this will be a Hatfield and McCoy like feud. There will be hundreds of examples of slights and offenses on both sides. Actions and reactions, vandalism, bodily assault, and perhaps a murder or seven.

And this would be quilt will lie at the root of it all.

....unless you act now to resolve this crisis......

Meh - I dunno - How much disharmony do you really want? Might just be better off to say something to the effect of.... Oh I see you did get around to using some of my material - on a quilt no less - looks nice :/
Just take out my sarcastic tone - see what she says.

I get that there are two different issues here - one the lying and 2 the fabric loss.

That would be correct.

What I find mind boggling is that she has about a fabric store worth of her OWN fabric... why she decided to use mine first is beyond me... it isn't as though it is the only material she could have used for this project...

Too much talky. Go do-y. ;)

The fabric loss is important to Pooka NOT because it's some fabric but because it has sentimental value, and she collected it for years.

My mom had a quilt made out of fabric remnants from fabric that she had used when she made my dresses when I was little. She gave a bunch of remnants to a quilting lady and the lady made a quilt and a little stuffed dog. What fun mom and I had going over it and picking out my dress material. I still have it.

I see why it's important to you Pooka, and why you are so boggled that she lies about it when to her it is just some fabric.

Go get it, Pooka!

Thank you Shawnee... that is EXACTLY right. In fact, my Grandmother made me a quilt when I was a child out of her old clothing... not as cool as my clothes mind you... lol. She wore a lot of polyester... but such was the style then. That is where I got the idea... I still have the quilt.

what is her address, I'll mail this thread to her.

I still have mine and an afghan that she knitted, as do my brothers, sisters and all my cousins. I'm with you. In fact, I broke out the afghan this month for the first time in years. Lotta memories.

I'm sure it's all a big mistake. She's probably making a big quilt of your fabric to give to your kids as a Christmas present and you fucked it up by seeing it. It seems pretty obvious to me from 2500 miles away.

That, or she's lying to you. In which case you just go over to her house when she's not hoem, take the quilt and all the fabric to your house and when she asks you what it's doing at your house just look at her blankly and explain that it's ALWAYS been at your house, what is she talking about?

Or kick her in the cunt.

Well hell, if you're going to go the sneaky route like foot suggests, take a seam ripper with you and take her quilt apart. Then you have no incriminating evidence at all--because of course all of these squares, being yours, must have been in the bag she returned the first time!

Yo Flint do you Need a 280 lb wing man for operation get the shit back ??

Even if and when it is recovered (who knows if they will stash it or give it away before we have a chance to get back over there)... there is the issue of the lying... this is a person I need to be able to trust... They often take care of my kids... if they so boldly lie to me about this... what else will they lie to me or not tell me about... it makes me very uncomfortable.

They claim to be a person of honesty and integrity... not to mention who they are to me just by itself... it is all very unsettling

well, then there must be some kind of logical explanation like the ones proffered above. Perhaps you do yourself and her a disservice with all this wild imagining of plots and schemes and lies. Go ......Friggin.....Talk ....TO......HER. tomorrow. or call her.


women are SOOOOOO nutty.

@Clodfobble. Do you get satisfaction out of always being smarter than me, an average bear?

@zippy. You aren't 280 unless you are, like, 6-5.

Dude, what was your first clue?

He's at least 295.

I should know....I'm 298

on second thought.....he installs scales for a living....he probably has a pretty current picture of his own weight.

Jim I know what I weigh
275-280 on any given day , oh and Im 6' 1-2" ish

Twisted steel and Sex Appeal Babby !!!

depending on whether the weigh in is pre or post poopage, right?

Ish

I must say if I were the other person here I could easily imagine assimilating Pooka's fabric into my stash mentally once she said "you can use it" and forgetting its provenance. After all, it's just bags of fabric scraps, unless you're Pooka for whom they have special significance. Then, years later (i.e. now) being totally confused by Pooka's claiming the stuff ...

Remind me not to mess with you, Marine.

Remind me to mess with you, Marine.

I've been trying... she is avoiding me and not taking or returning my calls. I am stuck at home with 2 little people or I'd drive over there... though at this point I think letting Flint handle her... being that she is on his side is the most appropraite intial course of action.

I reckon if she's your sis-in-law you can go talk to her yourself. Who knows, it might even help the relationship if you get together and have a proper talk about it. Maybe then you'll understand her better and her you. From what i can tell, there's a shitload of grey area in your problem, and the only way you'll ever know what the deal is, is if you have a talk to her yourself.

My sis-in-law had an issue with me that I was blissfully unaware of until my brother told me about it. We had a talk and she explained her position and I explained mine and it turned out that neither of us was a bitch after all. We just had a misunderstanding.

I reckon you've got a good chance of a very similar outcome.

::spits out his beer:::

I demand a recount!

We know you have a problem with math Jimbo, but you really should keep it under wraps till you get it sorted mate.

You're so upset over this, I would bet anything that it's going to end up under the Christmas tree with a tag on it for you.

One can hope.

If not you'll be able to stab her in the eye with a sewing needle while she's opening the death threat you've wrapped for her.

I am slowly learning to just go the most direct route about these sorts of things. I would just go over to her place and say straight out "I appreciate you storing my fabric for me all this time, but don't think I have all of mine back, and I would like to be sure that I do. I care about it because it has sentimental value to me because XYZ. If you have already used some, that's fine since I told you you could, but I would like everything that is left. I realize it's an inconvienence to you to search for it, so I would be happy to help. I apologise that it has taken this long for me to get myself organized."

Then basically root through her stuff to get what you can, and write the rest off as the cost of lesson learned.



And for the record, Jim made me LOL twice in this thread alone.

1) don't call, talk face to face
2) don't accuse, act naive
3) remember you did say she could use some of them
4) don't do it at a family holiday get-together if possible

I would say "wow, look at that beautiful quilt. You know, it reminds me of some of my patches! Did you get a chance to use some? I know I didn't get all of them back....but this really looks nice, good job!" If the quilt is hidden/put away you should say something like this, "last time I was here I got to sneak a peak at the quilt you were working on but didn't have a chance to talk to you about it. It's look really great, can I see it again? Since I've been planning my own quilt for ___ years, I'm excited to see what pattern you came up with!" You can ask advice on making a quilt...even if you don't give a shit. It will come off a lot nicer, not seem threatening and maybe it will get discussed in a non-hostile way.

Is there really a line between authorizing use of the quilt pieces before or after asking for them back? Was it ok'd with a stipulation? Maybe they were used because they were separated, intended for use before the rest were given back, so what's the difference between years ago or days ago? Just some questions. If there are still denials, lies, etc. Just consider it a lost cause and ask yourself if it's really worth it. I'm not saying it is or isn't but there is a lot that can happen in your relationship based on these items. I know they are really special to you so PLEASE approach it gently because if you do it will go a lot smoother and more positive for you! I seriously find it better to act "dumb" to manipulate the conversation rather than direct confrontation which provokes a deer-in-headlights response..

Good Luck!

Go buy some cheap quilts and have a quilt burning on a stake in front of her house at night. Put a sign on her door that says "Free the quilt material or I will take your house by force." Ring the door bell, hide in the bushes and when she comes out to put the fire out run in and grab the quilt, dashing out the back door in a quick escape. I think it could work.

So how did Thanksgiving go? Everyone leave with all their limbs?

And a comment for Flint... I'm the same way mate, I hate listening to the old-ball-and-chain just go over and over and over the same topic when there's no decision waiting at the end of the yellow brick road. BUT! I've learned that some people, and it seems to be more common in women-folk, that rehashing the same stories is actually a way to work through a problem. They don't know how to handle it, but after telling and retelling they over time slowly develop a "gut feeling" for how to deal with the situation. If you just challenged Mrs. Pooka, "get a plan!" I bet there's no way she could find a plan she had any confidence with. But given enough time to repeat the story / thoughts / ideas, one will eventually take shape.

It's just a different way of thinking. :)

Was not my sis in law... for the record. Though you are on the right track... it would have been easier and less disturbing if it was .

Here is what happened. We went over there for Thanksgiving. The quilt in progress was not where it had been previously. Flint searched high and low and did not see it anywhere. She saw us looking and headed us off and felt the need to show us her sewing room and large closet full of HER fabric which spaned floor to ceiling. I asked again and told her I know ther are more and she seemed annoyed and reiterated that she did not have them and suggested that perhaps they were at my house packed into something else at which point Flint said... "when we were here the other day I saw a project you were working on and it was made out of the same material we have at our house which to Pooka is refering" she immediatly changed the subject and left the room. I was shocked that she would lie to him too. Flint looked dumbfounded.

I guess he decided toreconsider that she must be making it for us.... though I really really doubt it... we'll see in about a month I guess . I don't know what else I can do without being able to produce the object. Calling her on the carpet (or the quilt as this case may be) doesn't seem to be effective. Though we knew she was lying and she was obviously nervous all day.

Unbelievable.

Well, at least Flint was there too to witness her behavior. I would keep my mouth shut till Christmas if it were me, and see what happens at that point. If I (we) got a gift made of it, I'd apologize for being weird about the whole thing. If no object appears, I'd just shaddup about it. Unless it appears that someone else might need a head's up about her past behavior with you, it won't do you any good to sit and stew about it. The whole situation is rotten, but so are some people.

Sounds to me like it might be time to build a bridge and get over it if she's going to be that hard nosed about it. Sometimes that's all you can do.

I think it boils down to a very simple solution, and someone else may have already suggested it, but:

What's more important, the relationship or the fabric?

Sometimes in order to preserve what is otherwise a valuable relationship, we have to blow off some pretty fucked up shit.

If the coin toss results in "I can't be friends with someone who would do that to me", then go to her place, find yer stuff, take it and leave.

That's all I have to say about it.

Ok... trying to deal with it... I'm a grudge holder and I know that is one of my biggest character flaws... ask my dad to whom I've not spoken in 16 years... although it really doesn't compare at all...

The offers of fabric is super sweet you guys... and if you are serious… at this point I would gladly take you up on your offers… it would actually be a pretty sweet conclusion… well not for the other person, but at least for the quilt.

Pooka, please bear in mind when I write this that I am a grudge bearer too. I am not setting myself up to be better than you, I am just channelling other people who have advised me over the years.

You have lied to her too. If not in exact words then at least by omission and behaviour. I can understand why you are angry - this is something that you now feel personally about. But in truth, you offered her this fabric and when you saw it had been used you did not immediately address the situation. I know you believe it wasn't used until after you asked for it back, but I will just ask that you consider this: did your MIL, knowing you wanted this back to make a quilt for your children, deliberately use the fabric and lie about it? Does she bear a grudge against you? It's a spiteful act if done in full knowledge.

Of course this might be the case. Flint certainly has not defended his mother. And I think I remember him saying he would not trust your baby (the first at the time) with either set of Grandparents and would rather put them in a creche at the gym.

I have no solution to offer you except that the best option is absolute honesty. She may actually know you saw the quilt and be saying the same about your duplicity to her circle.