Adult friendships
 

Yesterday Lil Lookout and I had one of those normal 7 year old type conversations that you don't remember with much significance. He was talking about who his best friends are this year. He is very detailed in listing ALL of his friends and explaining how he knows them, where he met them, things he's done with them, and what category they fall in (soccer friend, church friend, school friend, neighborhood friend) so I had pretty much just gone into zombie mode - listening but not really paying too much attention. Then he asked the question.

"Dad, who's your best friend and why?"

OK, that's easy. I explained that Mrs L is my best friend as I enjoy spending time with her more than anyone else in the world and we've shared things that would be impossible to duplicate with anyone else. He nodded and then quickly said, "yeah, but mom doesn't count. You have to say her, but who's your real best friend that's just a friend?"

That took just a little thought before I had to say my friend A. He's only met A a couple of times because A is still in Illinois and I only see him about once a year. A and I have been friends since our earliest memories, but became best friends and inseparable in early high school. After 21 years and having spent 13 of those years living in different states the guy is still the greatest friend I can imagine. When we were younger we could finish the other's thoughts, followed the same music, and all that crap without being clones of each other. He's a huge black dude and I'm a skinny white guy. He's naturally athletic, musically skilled, and draws people to him with ease. I'm pretty much the opposite in all ways. As adults he's become an extremely liberal and obscenely underachieving mystery to most, while I've become a pretty conservative and somewhat overachieving heart on my sleeve type. Strangely, as different as we've become we still know exactly what they other is thinking and trying to say. Anyway, that's A, my best friend.

That was the end of it. We got home and went about life. Or so I thought. We got in the car for the drive to school today and he picked the conversation right up where we left off.

Doesn't it make you sad that you don't have any real friends that you see?"

Hmm. Well, it didn't until he made me think about it. I work by myself and for myself. I talk to clients but you can't really call those real relationships because business and friendship just don't work well together. After a lot of thought I realized I have the soccer people. I enjoy many of them an awful lot, but I wouldn't call them close friends. Very friendly acquaintances, sure, but my heart won't be broken when our kids drift away and we inevitably do the same. The adults on my team are all 5-16 years younger than me and are simply teammates, I don't see them off the field. The closest thing to friends I have are all in the cellar. I know more about some of you guys than I do the people I see face to face on a regular basis. I've actually known some of you longer than I've known pretty much anybody I see regularly.

Is this what adult life is like for everyone or have I become some bizarre creature that only exists on a website and a soccer field?

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is, other than just kind of typing out the thoughts my kid got rolling. Damn kid.

No, you're not a bizarre creature. I identify with what you're describing.

I have a few friends I've kept up with over the years, but I really only see them if they've morphed into "couple friends" or "friends how also have kids that I see at birthday parties." I also have "music friends" that I play/have played in bands with, but I only see them on "business" (band practice or gigs).

I only like a few people well enough to spend time with them. The initial, correct answer is that your best friend is your wife.

As far as internet friends, I'd consider you a good example. I believe that physical proximity is not necessary to communicate the essence of a person.

Yeah, being an adult sucks in some ways. Having no friends is part of it.

By "no friends" I mean like close friends that you hang out with. Not those guys you see about three or four times a year when your families get together for dinner. They are my friends, but not like my friends in the olden days.

In your youth you were probably part of a pack of wandering nomads, gathered together for common cause (to pick up chicks, to play D&D, whatever); in your adulthood your pack is your family, and the common cause is the family.

Yep. I actually got together with a friend about a month and a half ago. My family was in California, and one of my friends (a father of one of my kid's former classmates) and I met for a happy hour and then we went out to see Batman. It was like a date though, because we planned it like two weeks in advance.

I went out to eat sushi with my wife, Pooka, last night. My mom watched the kids. We had a great time. I don't have any reason to want more "guy friends" to do "guy stuff" with--I can't imagine a better person to hang out with than my wife. I can be perfectly honest with her, and there's nothing that I want to talk about that she doesn't "get."

When I get time off from work, school, and everything else I have to do, I don't want a big cast of multiple, so-so friends. I want a few (very few) good ones.

I begin to compose my thoughts for a reply to this thread, and on cue one of those "friend finder" commercials pops up on the tube. Clearly they are making a lot of money hooking up lonely people, but they never tempt me. Most of my friends are of the imaginary Internet sort, but they are quality friendships that transport across geography when we move, something we do often. I need input from intelligent, humorous, creative, and thoughtful people and they are not as readily found in real life - at least not by me. Mr. sweetwater makes pals wherever we go but we are still best friends with each other. It's good. I'd love to find a RL friend sometimes, but I'm happy enough.

Aside from Keryx I have only 1 friend that is Jerry the guy who lives next door, we knew each other at the old place. I have other but I only communication with them is email or the occasional phone call, I do concider xoBruce a friend, and someday I would like to meet him IRL.
The dwellars I consider to be fond aquatainces as well I want to meet you all.

I have found that the older I get, the more selective I have become in my friends. In the past 5 years, although I have made many acquaintances, I have made only one true friend. And we both discuss the fact that it's so difficult to make friends, given the challenges of child rearing, careers, etc., etc., etc. I also have found that there's no sense in wasting time or energy in getting to know people that are toxic. I am usually very good at identifying "those kind" right off the bat, and, I have no qualms in keeping my distance. I am a very private person that prefers friendships that are mutually satisfying. Therefore, I can easily list my true friends - there are less than five. Of them, two are from elementary school, one is my "new" friend, one is a former co-worker. The amazing thing is that we all share the same theory -- whether we talk every day or once a month, we pick up the friendship where it left off, and, the friendships are emotionally beneficial to all.

(that sounded SO girlie!)

I used to have friends.

But that was before I started spending time in the Cellar.

Various personal circumstances make it difficult for me to go out and meet people, so the people I hang around with all live in the same 9-plex that I do. We sit outside and talk on summer nights, have barbeques, and generally help each other out. Still, I miss knowing people who share more specific interests, and I can't say that anyone in particular is my best friend. Friendships do seem to be harder to cultivate and maintain as an adult.

I live in the middle of nowhere most of my neighbors are much older than I am. In a small farming community its hard to meet someone with the same interests. Most women are intimidated by me like they need to compete on a superficial physical appearance level. My DH is my best friend and we are lucky we can hang 24/7 and not get sick of each other.

Since I moved out of my parent's house at 18 I have moved 50 times. Wanderlust, restlessness, greener pastures, poor choices, bright ideas, cute girls. Every move/place had a reason which seemed compelling and natural at the time. Each time I made new friends and acquaintances and many times I found someone like lookout's A. Then the next move would come along and I'd lose track of folks who were just "good time" friends, but I'd stay in touch with the A's over the years.

One of my pals says my life is like a plane wreck; there is debris scattered across states.
Time has a way of polishing things and some of the A's turned out to be B's (play on words) and some became a's or a- and others became AAA.

Things also changed with kids, but the few, real friends either kidless or not haven't changed.

Each one is different. One friend is the kind of guy I could call and say "I'm stuck in EastCornflake and my car won't start." Before I could get any further he's say "Hang tight, find someplace to chill and I'll come get you." Even though I had Triple A, He's that kind of guy. (True, his wife has pulled the reigns in a bit, but still)

I think another thing about friends (and why my MIL hasn't got any and my wife is just learning how to make them) is that you need to let them need you as much as you need to need them. My wife got from her German mom (it may have nothing to do with being German, it may just be that family) this idea that you can never be beholden to anyone for anything. So she'd never ask a friend for a jump or to do her a favor or give her a lift. I realize there is more to friendship than the exchange of favors, but I think part of it is willingness to be available and to allow the other person to reciprocate. She always wants to be the person who helps and never allows the other person a chance to pay back the favor. My wife is beginning to see how that is unfair and can be perceived as a power/control issue by the other party.

I think it is about give and take as well as being of the same mind.

It's amazing how timely this thread is to my life right now. Just this week we had our first experience in "having people over for dinner." I have been trying to figure out how to do this for awhile, this whole making new friends thing, and was really proud that we managed it so well. I mentioned the success to my mom, who responded that she was impressed, because in 16 years of being with my father, they never once had a single person over to the house, nor did they ever go do anything with anyone else. In the next 13 years with my stepfather, they had one set of neighbors across the street that they ate with maybe a dozen times, always at restaurants, and that was it.

I've started coming to the conclusion that, while having your spouse as a best friend is critical, it is also important to have mutual friends that you both enjoy being around. Sharing friends gives you a chance to see a side of their personality/behavior you are otherwise probably never going to see.

I have noticed over the years that my circle of friends has contracted. Some of this I attribute to my bizarre, backward work schedule. What I have also noticed, however, is that the friendships that remain are deeper and closer, which is a good thing, I think.

Another of the nice things is that I have a number of people from here that I consider good friends, even the ones who have been impolite enough to move to other parts of the country, or to have been there to start with.

We have friends we do stuff with, like our camping trip last weekend, and we also get together and play cards, etc. Not as many as we used to have; some of this is due to simple busy-ness, some to moving farther apart, sometimes marriages to spouses who wished to "re-direct" their social lives. My hubby had a HUGE circle of friends when we met and they're all still friends, but see each other much less. His best friend from HS, who was like a brother to him, now lives 500 miles away and we see him maybe once a year.

All of our friends now are my hubby's friends. Yes, I consider them my friends too, but he is the one they usually call about plans, mostly the guys, and just cll him to chat. I get along great with the wives and we can talk for hours when we get together, but it never occurs to me to call them myself just to chat or maybe have lunch. We don't have time.

I have 6 very close friends, that I spend a lot of time communicating with...sms, email, messenger, dinners, weekends away, etc....even if I dont get to see them as much as I would like.

We drifted a part a bit when I was married....one of them is single - no kids, she was my partner in crime for many, many years....two are a married couple....another is a very good friend, who was married (x 2), has three kids and now is a lesbian....the other an original online friend, who has turned into a real life friend.

I have many, many friends from my online life, some that have transferred into face to face mates, others that will, but mostly those friendships go back 5+ years.

My very best friend (the partner in crime), we seemed to avoid being friends for a long time..mainly due to a guy that was rooting her and trying to root me....he told me that she hated me and said things about me, and told her the same about me....our birthdays are on the same day and the married couple invited us to beers at the pub and we all got pissed and have been best mates since. After P & I confronted rooter dude and then she dumped him. :D

Many of the good friends I have made have been coworkers. As I've gone on from school to one company to the next, I keep some of those folks closer than others. 2 from college, 2 from my first employer, probably 3 or 4 from my most recent (it remains to be seen how close we stay now that I am no longer seeing them on a daily basis!)
I wonder if I'll make any good friends at my new job.

I'm making RL friends now and it's really uncomfortable. I've been in hiding for so long...it seems natural to "vant to be alone!"

I suffer from shyness, self-consciousness, and a habit of being alone. If you gave me Daniel Craig for a sex slave, I hit it, but he'd have to leave right after. Am I mental?

ME 2

UT, was your response to Bri's Daniel Craig comment?

ug, thanks for saying that. I love my childhood and teenage years. I don't find as many open people as an adult. Or maybe it's me that's scared and closed.

ah youth!

ME 3 excepting the Daniel Craig part.

Hur hur hur. Old people.
Catch you later, I gotta go hang out with Liam and Maggie and Carla and Savannah and Caitlin and Ryan and... no, wait, I'm not going anywhere, I just wanted to rub it in. I always get those two confused.

Yeah, come back and post after you've rounded the first side of the block, k? Perhaps you will be dryer behind the ears by then. ;)

I've found that since I quit drinking five years ago, my social life has shrunk to miniscule proportions. I think a lot of my social interaction revolved around drinking or activities that encourage drinking, so now that I avoid those sorts of situations, my 'drinking buddies' have all drifted away.

I became involved in online gaming about the same time, which opened up a whole new world of friendships. Many of these people have become RL friends, although I can't hang out often as they're scattered around the world. A couple of them are in my city, however, and we do get together now and then. The friends I've made in the gaming world are equal to any IRL. We chat on the phone, share pain and triumphs, send flowers and gifts for occasions, and enjoy the same online experiences (ingame). When any of us have the opportunity to meet up with others, we do so.

My best friends are my partner and my sister. I haven't seen sis in 9 years but we still email, goose each other on facebook, send txt messages and call regularly. My partner is my buddy in everything, including gaming. But the majority of my free time is spent with my children, because they simply grow up too fast. Eventually, I'll have plenty of time to sit around and commiserate with the other blue-haired, decrepit retirees.

But beyond all that, as I've grown and matured, I've found that I'm pretty damn happy in my own company. I happen to like myself and have tons of activities that I enjoy, so being alone is not a burden. Actually, I relish any time that I have to myself, since it's such a rarity.

That said, I am on Classmates.com and Facebook and it is nice to see how old friends are doing. Do I want to get all entangled with them the way I was when I was young and needy? Nah.

Not much to add from this quarter, except that I think this is a damn fine thread.

I seem to be a "social contexter" in friendmaking, though it's also true I am efficient at it. What I mean by the social context thing is that a great many of my friendships come of shared hobbies, most prominently those folk-of-the-air, the Society for Creative Anachronism. While this bunch of incurable romantics is a fairly big umbrella, I found it a society of people precisely as bloodyminded as myself, neither more nor less -- made a great fit.

as long as we're on this subject, I have a question that I've pondered for some time.

Why is it that when a friend gets married, he/she then only socializes with other married friends and drops the single ones?

I remember when my friend Jeff got hitched back in '89. He NEVER hung around with the single members of our group, only the married ones. And there were no women to complicate matters of avoidance, just men. As the single guys married, I noticed that they would get invited over for BBQ and drinks etc but not the single guys?

Is this subtle peer pressure to tie the knot? Snobbery? A voluntary unwillingness to drag the rest of the guys down with him? What?

That's pretty well known: singles, rightly or wrongly, get perceived by some of the marrieds (people bitch about their wives thinking like this about their not-yet-married buddies from earlier times) as disturbers of the marriage dynamic -- too much worrying about "Is that hottie over there going to draw hubby's eye, now that I'm older and ten pounds heavier and raising 2.3 kids?" This line of thought really eats at some people, and they write to the agony aunts columns about it.

Rational? Not very. Present anyway, you bet. It's down in the lizard brain where reproduction and aggression live.

I am such a loser! I have no friends. That's why you guys are blessed with my presence so often. :)

There's more to it than that, UG. There is a fundamental shift in priorities that often the single friends have not experienced. It is not, for example, just looking at women in bars--it is buying big TVs and motorcycles when they could be paying down the mortgage (or even having a mortgage in the first place,) it is staying out late and scoffing at the excuse that there is someone at home waiting for the married guy...

There's nothing in common any more.

Wow, I have skipped this thread for so long. I had no idea what it was about. Does anyone else do that? Only to find out it is one of the threads I should have been reading all along. Threads are turning out to be a little bit like people, and friends.

I think the good threads, or those that evolve into good threads, should somehow be flagged. That would save us a lot of time with the bad ones.

Yet again, life demonstrates why I have no friends IRL.

I invited my friend J. over with her daughter, who is my daughter's age, to have a cookout and swim today. This was planned a week ago, for this afternoon. Well, she never called, which isn't a big deal, I just assumed it wasn't happening. Not like I went out and bought steaks and sat by the phone. But she just called a little while ago saying why she got busy...hell, I was busy too, today wasn't a good day for us either. Tomorrow's out. Next weekend is booked too. The weekend after that as well.

It's sad that my life is so busy I haven't got time to get together with my friends. It's doubly sad that even if I did have time, they wouldn't.

Seriously. There are a lot of ladies I meet that I think might be good candidates for a real friendship, but when the hell can we do anything about it? "How 'bout Friday?" "No, we have soccer...Sunday afternoon?" "No, we're going to my in-laws. Tuesday night?" "No, that's our scout meeting." Etc., etc., etc.

Yet...

THE MEN ALWAYS FIND TIME. Why is that?

Oh there's plenty in common, but the married guys aren't allowed to even think it. ;)

My hubby has always been friends with single guys as well as the married ones. Divorced ones, too, and even a poly guy with two "wives" in the mix. Why not? A friend is a friend. I don't understand why anyone would stop an active friendship based on changing marital status; I wouldn't want him to, because I care about his friends as well.

We do have two friends however who apparently are no longer permitted to spend time with their old friends, since they got married - not just the single ones, but the married ones too. I have no idea how their wives pulled that off; now the only people they hang out with are HER friends. Really made me lose respect for those spineless saps. Good riddance, I guess.

I think women have a harder time with their single friends than men do. From my own experience, nothing changed after the wedding - it is all about having children. Once you have kids, you're tied down and often can only manage to spend time with other women who have kids the same age, so the kids can play together while moms socialize. Even if someone else is watching the kids, honestly, that becomes all that a mom has on the brain - at least for the first few years - and it gets awfully tiring for single ladies to sit and listen to someone yammer about diapers and breastfeeding and preschool. I know, I've been on both sides.

I am still guilty of this. My kids are 10 and 12 and I still have trouble going for any length of time without mentioning them in a conversation; I'll manage to find a way to fit them in. Life just isn't the same after you have children.

You know, I was composing a big ole long reply, then it hit me.

The Cellar is a lot like school in some ways. When we were kids, the other kids (in public schools) came from all kinds of different family situations, backgrounds, experiences, etc. much like here.

I think what keeps most of us here. The variety like we had back then. You learn new tricks from some, find common interests with others, butt heads with a few.

I have tried to expand my real life circle of friends, but adult responsibilities are freaking time consuming.

I do not nor have I had a 'best friend' in a long, long time. (spouse excluded) But I have gotten to know a couple dwellars at least as well if not better than some of my RL 'friends' through chatting/IMing with them. We may not have seen each other face to face, but they would make the list if I was enumerating my friendships. In fact, some I have discussed personal issues with that I have not with RL 'friends'.

Shit, I talk to YOU people more than any of them, lol. (again, spouse excluded. We talk about you.)

Us, too. He may not post or even lurk, but I tell him all about what's going on. :)

There is a special kind of single guy that can be a couple friend. He's like a little brother who comes over for home-cooked meals. Sure, now that we have kids we don't stay out as late, or have as much fun; but there's something about the warm glow of the family homestead that the special single-guy friend just loves to be a part of.

We both know that is dangerously close to a Jack Handy moment.

Riiiiiiiight.


We have a 'special friend' that joins us for our homestead's glow every now and then too.

::wink wink::

::nudge nudge::

:mg:

I must be working to much away from the homestead's.
Alot happens when your not home. HMM