Normalize Relations with Cuba
 

I think it is about time. Let's drop the BS and do it. There are numerous strategic, economic, and political reasons to do so.

Strategic: Both Russia and China have their eye on Cuba as a place in our back yard to not only mine for wealth but to put offensive weapons in place and electronic snooping devices, if they have not already. China is planning on putting in off shore oil wells that will be in sight of our coastline, if you consider the Keys as part of our coastline. Normalizing relations will go a long way to deter these attempts.

Economic: We have a strong Cuban American community in the US. If they can overcome their Castrophobia we could have a fantastic trading partner who needs our exports badly. Food, medicine, tourism, and think about all those old cars from the 50's that are still running. Cuban cigars! Beaches. Hotels could go in and start over. It would revolutionize their economy. Lots of good reasons to do it.

Political: Face it, they are not North Korea or Iran lite. They just have political differences. Hell, even the Russians had an embassy in the US and they were (are) a much greater mortal threat to us than Cuba could hope to be, except by proxy during the Missile Crisis. Let's get over it already.

What do you think Cellar?

I entirely agree.

Well... ok.

But if they point missiles at me again I'm gonna be pissed.

That is what I am trying to prevent.

I've got no problem with Cuba.

It would be a nice vacation spot, even.

Then I am definitely in!

Srsly. This should have been done years ago. Its ridiculous the way the last several administrations have handled our relations with Cuba. We deal with all these other countries that are far worse than Cuba, yet not them.

Guess they don't have enough to offer us on the positive side, we can only prevent a further negative - eh?

Definitely normalize. Unfortunately, I have trouble visualizing the Florida Cubans letting the GOP normalize, but I guess a Democrat administration could do it.

It is a lovely place to holiday - I have done.

Isn't it a little patronising to say America will "revolutionize" Cuba's economy? You can certainly help them. And it will remove an international embarrassment (the Helms-Burton Act is widely deplored)

But yes, I fully agree that having not beaten Castro into the ground, your best bet is to pretend you never had a strop with him in the first place and remove the embargo. Kill him with kindness if you like. Just start trading again.

From the things I have read about their lifestyle I fully believe that fully normalized relations would revolutionize their economy. It is just a difference between have's and have not's coupled with proximity. It would become the new hot vacation destination for many Americans and it would be very easy to get to. Of course the Cuban government would have to open their markets as well and allow large corps to build hotels and other vacation spots. It would be a win-win.

They killed JFK and paid dearly for it, but it's time to move on and take their oil. ;)

And I'm tired of the Dominicans rolling their crepes too tightly.

They already use US Dollars for all unofficial transactions. 51st state anyone?

Whoa whoa whoa, let's not get hasty. They can be a territory, like Puerto Rico. Nobody wants to redesign the whole flag...

they just did for the new stamp. too many stripes, it seems.

Maybe all US flags should have streamers like a Military Flag, each streamer could represent a territory affiliated with the US.

Which is partly why the historic animosity to the US.

I'm betting that the 1950's car collectors clubs will be dead set against it.

The value of their collections will tank...

Just look what happened for Jazz when Cuban and American musicians got together.

No problem, none of them are original, most have at least the motor parts replaced to run on piss-poor gas, and they'd be a good body parts source.
Let the annexation begin. :us:

I personally don't see anything happening until Fidel dies. Then I see Raul taking over for good, paying lip service to denouncing the US in public while making up in private. We will create relations again to make him look good, hotels will go back, casinos MAY return (Bautista is still a bitter memory) and the tourist industry will enrich Cuba. Soon after, the US will establish another embassy and Cuba will slowly become a territory. I don't see statehood in the future, latin machismo will not allow that. Instead, all their ex-pats will go home, and things will go back to where they were.

As far as China and Russia, I don't see it...the Cubans remember the Soviets and what happened when THEY tried to make Cuba a protectorate. Communism is dead there, I think.

Just to remind you, Cuba is already a tourist destination. It's just one you folks can't go to. Although I admit the difference US tourism would bring would be significant - a bit like the Brits and the Spanish Costas.

I knew that. We CAN go there, albeit the State Dept warns us not to and we must first travel to Canada or Mexico, but we CAN go there. We just don't want to.

Or we can take a Buick, or an old Chevy truck, add flotation and tarps, then...
Oh, wait... no that's the people trying to get the hell out of there... nevermind :eyebrow:

The Canadians like it because it's the one place they are never confused with Americans :)

Apart from that, there were an awful lot of Italians.
Which is fine because you can can wake up late and still get a sunbed, but can be pretty bruising in the queue for the buffet. Queue? There is no equivilant word in Italian it seems.

I'd go back to Havana like a shot - the whole city is a feast for the eyes.

Group urges Obama to unilaterally ease Cuba policy

Fuggit - lets do it - We have more normal relations with countries a lot worse.

au contraire, mon frere. Check out this recent editorial

Speak for yourself! I've always wanted to visit Cuba.

That's because, um, we're a free country and stuff.

This is incorrect. If you are caught traveling to Cuba by any means, you can be arrested by the feds.

Yeah, that usually works out well in Latin America and the Caribbean.

No, really.

The Cuban owners of those cars can sell them, but they have been declared a national treasure and are not allowed to leave the island.

Another good move by Obama. Now can he find the balls to go against the strong lobbyist organizations that are going to fight tooth and nail. We better get back in there before the Chinese and Russians get a better foothold.

I think you'll find Raul will be more than willing to talk things over.

Sure, you'll have a million pissed off Cubans in Florida, but I'm not sure I give a fuck about them.

Our policies toward Cuba are ridiculous and outdated.

Second.

The way to lift socialism's yoke off of Cuba is to make the socialist régime completely irrelevant -- by really doing business, and prospering there not only without that régime, but altogether in spite of it. Marginalize the Commies.

Truth. We defeated the USSR with Levis and McDonalds. We can do Cuba the same way.

Well it looks like we are on our way to a change in the business as usual with Cuba. Obama should be congratulated for this policy change. It remains to be seen if Congress has the balls to carry the ball to the next step without the scum sucking lobbyists getting in on it and screwing it up.

Why would they do that? Whats in it for them?

There is a huge anti-Castro contengient in the US. Huge. They would want to prevent any form of normalizations. Of course they can't actually do that when it is done by the president, they can do it when congress takes more far reaching, long lasting action through the legislative process.

That didn't answer WHAT'S in it for them? You didn't say why or what the reason would be. I got that there are a bunch who hate Castro and have been holding a "grudge" for, well, forever - what benefit do they derive from it?

The cigar lobby is probably pretty unhappy at the prospect. :)

Who knows. Other than hate for all things Castro.

So aside from hate they have no reason?

There is no huge anti-Castro lobbying network outside of the Cuban-American community in Florida and perhaps a few extreme anti-communists groups. And the Cuban-American community is becoming much more divided, with the older, first generation immigrants becoming much less influential.

The agriculture lobby, the oil lobby, the tourism lobby and many other business advocacy organizations have been pushing for ending the trade embargo against Cuba for years.

The only reason it hasnt ended.....Florida's 25 electoral votes.

Conquer 'em with Pepsi Cola and Levis.

It's the only way to go.

Though we shouldn't be at all afraid to give the ruination of Cuba (the Communist Party) a push when the time is right. We can all imagine several candidates for the right time.

Balls.

One of the Oswalds acted alone.