I will boycott the Olympics
 

I know my tiny little amount of spending power is not going to worry anybody, its the thought that counts.

I think the Olympic industry did some dirty dealing with China to get the games.

I think China should remove all restrictions on the Internet, I mean imagine how your rights would be impaired if you could not get access to , porn sites, The Cellar and just stuff like that.

No kidding I will turn it off from radio TV and I wont read about it in the paper.

The Chinese have plenty of access to the Cellar.
9 out of 10, of the spammers signing up, are in China

I won't be boycotting. I think the individual participants are more important than politics. However, the exposure to first world values has already got the Chinese thinking about their air quality and limited internet access.

If they could only get a handle on those pesky monks.

Me watching the Olympics isn't going to make one damn bit of difference to China one way or the other. I'm not going to be buying anything that is advertised, and besides, the money is paid already.

As to the effects of the exposure, I agree with Griff. Th eyes of the world are on them, and so far, the world has been totally bitching at them to get their shit together. I don't see that letting up once the games are over.

China is changing, and changing *fast*.

It's true that the Olympics are sponsored Episode, but there is never any adverising allowed at any of the venues. A stance that impresses me.

I believe the Olympics is about all nations putting aside their political differences and coming together in the spirit of good sportsmanship and fair competition. I am disgusted by those protesting the Olympics in China. Their own actions are more offensive than those of China's government.

Radar, its a great thought in theory, but the reality is quite different. I do NOT oppose those who wish to boycott or otherwise protest the Olympics. The Olympics are being held in a communist state with an extremely poor history of human rights abuses, the failure to allow people to practice their chosen religion - Tibet being a great example - and on and on, ad nauseum. Allowing China to host the Olympics sends the message that it and its regime is welcome to take its place among nations that have high values of personal and governmental integrity. Here are some snips off a Chinese Human Rights site http://www.hrw.org/englishwr2k8/docs...china17604.htm:

Radar, aren't you a libertarian or something? Your glib reply in this thread makes you sound more of a republican to me.

Bruce, the Cellar may indeed get its share of spammers hoping to make a fast buck. This is not what concerns the Chinese government:

To quote you, "its a great thought in theory, but the reality is quite different".
walmart/Wall Street, has already ushered China to a place at the table of movers & shakers.

What concerns the Party in China, is remaining in control by any means at their disposal... the same as every other political entity in the world. Their lack of sophistication just makes them seem more ruthless.

The party is not the most controlling government, when it comes to the internet. Check out the posts by Billy. If he was complaining about the Party, or being critical of their tactics, I'm sure they would know and probably act on it. But, as long as their citizens are using the internet for something other than an instrument of protest, or embarrassment, against the Party, they have pretty much free access.

That doesn't mean they need stay there (although, I'm putting on my tinfoil cap if I think they're leaving any time soon). One can always boycott Chinamart whever possible. One can push one's representatives' in DC to pass different laws. One can do many things. If they'll work is another question. But we need to keep trying to be the hero's of own lives, or else some MBA or politician will jump in there and you won't recognize the sleezy face that peers out of the mirror at you every the morning.

I am in agreement with you that what the party cares about is control above all things. Those spammers probably have to grease the right political hand. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.

I've lurked here alot before starting to post, so I recall some of Billy's posts. I differ with you that refraining from speaking out against one's government is being allowed "freedom." The term is more closely described as reign of terror through enforced silence.

I never claimed the Party remotely considered giving the citizens of China, what presumably you, and admittedly I, consider "freedom".
But if you wish to rail about the Party's mistreatment of Chinese citizens, don't get off on the tangent of internet censorship. While we might deem that an important point, globally, you won't garner that much support, because internet censorship is more common than not.

I strongly disagree with this statement.

I think they have a very rich history of human rights abuses.

My bad. I had a couple glasses of wine when I wrote that. Quite a nice little Merlot as I recall. :D

That idea is so totally divorced from the reality of Communist Chinese atrocities -- by policy, because totalitarian behavior only runs the gamut of degrees of bad -- that your use of "more offensive" amounts to crazy talk. Superior intellectual attainment, dear fellow, needs not to make silly remarks of this kind.

Notice I never do.

My mind is evidently better than yours, and the evidence does nothing but pile up, Paul.

Communists' behavior has been massively bad, from the beginning all the way to the end. That's one huge, industrial-scale heap of "offensive" to outdo, Paul, and you really shouldn't be trying to miscompare these boycotters' action with the proven savagery of Communist tyranny. Above all I caution you against trying to be the apologist for leftist tyrannies -- don't turn into tw right before our eyes.

Yea, heaven help us if they should exercise a Right to Free Speech. But I guess China doesn't have the Bill of Rights so they should feel free to mow them down with machine guns and run them over with tanks. :eek:

I won't be watching the Olympics for the simple reason that it's boring as hell.

The issue to me is not that the individual competition and sportsmanship should be squelched, it's the PLACE. How much revenue is going to pour into China? With the history of human rights abuses, why were they awarded the venue? Award, reward, whatever...it smells fishy to me.

Sure, let the games begin. But let them begin somewhere else. Surely there are other countries which would benefit from millions of dollars pouring into their economy? Or is this set up as a partial payment of all that the US owes China? :eyebrow:

The "think of the sportsmen" argument is quite short-sighted and really not what I'd expect from you.

Take a look at the CNN clip they are running today. All about how the young Chinese children are pushed from a VERY young age so they can compete, win and move on to a life that is "better for them".

Some of these kids didn't want to be pushed so hard. Walking on their hand for 3 minutes, followed by 60 crunches, followed by serious ab workouts. Shit....I couldn't do that. Even the look on their faces.

happens in the US too. and Canada, and france, and just about anywhere that kids have more talent than their parents have brains.

happens in the US too. and Canada, and France, and just about anywhere that kids have more talent than their parents have brains.

Lookout with your permission I might pirate that saying

Well, except in the US it's the parents pushing the kids and being overly involved. In China, the government takes the kids off to live (literally) at the gymnasium, away from their families.

How is this a short-sited argument? It's the very reason for the creation of the Olympics in the first place. China is hosting the Olympics because they promised to have brand new, state-of-the-art, facilities, and excellent security. China represents a very important nation of historical and cultural significance. They are as deserving of hosting the Olympics as America, or anyone else.

The Olympic committee isn't here to reward or to punish. They are here to find good venues for the Olympics that have an adequate amount of hotel rooms, security, transportation, etc.

China is spending an order of magnitude more money, then they are taking in.
It's a national ego trip, of the first order... a trip that countries are lining up to take themselves.
;)

Really, Sheldon? All those hunky athletic types doing gymnastics, wrestling, etc? You wouldn't even have it on with the sound turned down?

It's true. One of the things people were calling for when Boris Johnson was elected Mayor of London was that he should refuse to hold the Olympics here (the bis was won under the previous Mayor, Ken Livingstone). Sadly, for the moaners, it was also backed heavily by a Tory peer, so it had cross-party support.

I'll find you some of the many, many negative opinion posts if you're interested. In fact Zen probably remembers it from the Sydney Olympics too. Hosting the Olympics is a very expensive business, and a very contentious issue (in a democracy).

Hell, you should have heard the complaints whrn America got the World Cup!

And air quality? :rolleyes:

k...point taken, guys! I see what you're saying.

If they ever start wrestling in the nude like the original Olympics, I might tune it. ;)

How is this honestly different from young girls that are pushed, squeezed, trained and made-up from ages as young as 3 to compete in beauty pageants right here in the US? Sure, some of them love to compete but you also see these same kids worried about being fat or hating how they look when not made-up and they aren't out of kindergarten yet. School takes second fiddle to dancing lessons, poise practice and exercise to lose that baby fat. 5 years olds that look damn near close to slowly-developing 16 year olds? Yeesh.

It's not. Stage parents living vicariously through there kids. Not all of them. Some kids do really want to do these things. It should never take the lead over school.

I didn't see the clip, but my assumption is that the pushing of the Chinese children that the CNN clip was about was on a larger scale, even sanctioned by powers-that be, than some stage moms (creepy) or living vicariously through such means as munchausen-by-proxy.

As I said, I did not get to see the clip, but is this the case? What I'm asking is: does the pushing of these children in China seem to be more the norm, the way of life, the status quo, for most families as opposed to the relatively few freaky moms who push the girls to beauty pageants or push the boys to be great football players, or else?

In a piece that I saw, the parent could only see the child for a few hours a week.

During half that time, the parent trained with the child.

as it should be. do you have any idea how well trained my players would be if i didn't have to deal with all the rest of the crap like school, family, fun...

Just remember that China is not the only country to have hosted an Olympics who treats their athletes this way. Remember Germany and Russia, just to name a couple, both have had if they don't still have very similar programs.

yeah, but they aren't yellow so we can forgive them a bit.

really?

well, that's not the only reason. there eyes are shaped right too, so that helps.

I see

Ali, you might want to recalibrate your irony detector.

(At least I really hope so!)

Yeah, it's completely disoriented.

Get it? Nyuk nyuk nyuk...

Maybe you need to recalibrate your droll acceptance of irony detector? :)

Ok, let's synchronise our snickerometers ... one, two, three....

Where will we hold the next Olympics. North Korea? What if Mugabe is still in power then, do we reward him also? I don't remember Olympics ever being held anywhere in Africa. I could be wrong. The fact is, no matter how much the bloody Chinese pay for the Olympics, they wil be getting much more in return, not only in finance, but in propaganda and political capital. We are giving them legitimacy as a civilized nation, which they are not. Post Stalinist Russia never came close to the human abuse of the Communist regime, from their beginning til now.

Propaganda and political capital, yes. But they can't be making money on this Olympics.
If it weren't for the slave labor, getting ready would have bankrupted them. :haha:

What do you mean "we"? When you ask where "we" will hold the Olympics and whether or not "we" should reward Mugabe. The Olympic committee is an international body of people who seek out the best location to hold the Olympics, and whether or not you like China, they've got a great venue, and they are as worthy of hosting the Olympics as America, England, France, Australia, or anyone else.

The U.S. Government is just as guilty of as many human rights violations as China, especially in Iraq, Cuba, etc. We aren't in a morally superior position to pass judgment on others and even if we were, the Olympics isn't a political arena. It's the opposite of a political arena. It's where nations put aside their political differences in the spirit of competition.

Those who would make outrageous claims comparing Mugabe to China or who want to stain the Olympics with their inane drivel are a disgrace.

I blame the IOC for being mercenary heartless bastards, while I expect that from the Chinese the IOC should be above that.

I think the IOC have been bought out, at the cost of the integrity of the Olympic games.

So Radar - you think the US is as bad as China?

WHAT? :eek:

Seriously, I wonder. Seems nothing is sacred and above being bought or politically influenced. My cynicism isn't completely unfounded, I'm sure.

Good and bad are relative terms. I say the United States is every bit as guilty of human rights violations and bullying other nations as China and the U.S. has no moral superiority over China. America was once the most free nation on earth. China has never been known for freedoms, yet in some ways they are more free than America, and in some ways America is more free than China.

The IOC's decision to host the games in China was fair, reasonable, equitable, and was most certainly not the result of bribery or coercion.

How are you so certain? Did you ask?

So is anyone really boycotting these games?

There have been plenty in the past of course but I wonder how the 1936 Berlin Games would be remembered if they had, justifiably, been boycotted. Surely everyone has seen those newsreels featuring Jesse Owens - I wouldn't want to be without those.

I'm a chinese, I could get access to The Cellar, porn sites and just stuff like that :cool: So your reason to boycott Olympic is not adequate. ;)

Every country has its own restrictions -- laws are restrictions. China does have some unreasonable restrictions, but China is developing and no one is perfect, right?

Rights of Chinese people are seriously impaired? You gotta be joking.

I agree with you, aliasyzy. But I also think Shanghai is hardly representative of China in general.
Of course that's the biggest problem about making generalizations about China, and the Chinese people. The country is HUGE. Just the change in climate, from north to south is staggering. There are crowded cities, uninhabited deserts, and everything in between.

Now the common thing is the National government, but I've read the regional governments have a lot of power, causing different rules (laws) in different regions. Of course we foreigners only hear what the Party is doing on a national level, national policy I guess you could call it, and yes, the western press zeros in of the negatives. But then again, your press is not exactly forthcoming.

So forgive us our ignorance, for we have been coached in our view of China. Better yet, please enlighten us with the truth about life in China.:D

Good and Evil, typical mode of civilization. :)

We US are good, They Chinese are evil: It's right and noble to exert our power on them and destroy them.

I don't think pumping hundreds of billions of dollars into China's economy, will destroy your country. :headshake

There are problems in almost every aspects of China. It's a big country and it's still a poor country. Like you said, making generalization should be careful.

I just want to say that people all over the world are the same: selfish, cowerdly and greedy. You can choose to understand others and work out a way to co-exist, or you can picture them as evil and fight them.

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I'd like to answer questions about China. I may not be correctly informed, but I could provide another angle to view China.

Pumping money surely won't destroy a country. (who knows, If it's a finance conspiracy, maybe it will.)

what i mean is: Good and evil game will cause a bigger game called war.

I don't agree with that generalization about people anywhere. Sure, there are some that fit that mold in any society, and unfortunately that's the type of people that are driven to power and wealth.
Although I have no scientific empirical data to prove it, I believe that most people, everywhere, just want to get along with their neighbors and take care of their families.

The people you described, the people I think seek power, do their best to capitalize of people's natural fear of the unknown, fear of people and cultures they don't know.

Now I'm far from a cockeyed optimist but my experience is, of the many people I've met, while I don't like all of them, once I know them, I don't fear them.

A US-China war won't happen. We both have too much to lose, and the money men won't allow it. :D

Being selfish, cowardly, and greedy is not absolutely bad. it's just what we are. One can always use better words to tell the same story.

Everybody seeks power. Get along and take care of families surely need power. Without power, can we sit comfortably in front of an LCD and chat like this while some people on the earth have to worry about their next meal? If you lose the power to sustain your current life style, will you try to get it back?

Moreover, how much is enough? Even if US citizens reduce their living standard by half, their life will still be like a heaven to at least 60% population of the world. Will people do so to spare some resources in building a better world? I'm not critical of US, because blind consumptionism is now all over the world.

I should take a moment to welcome aliasyzy to the Cellar, and to offer congratulations on your excellent English, sir. I hope the Great Firewall of China doesn't ever give you trouble with contacting big-nosed Americans.