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The Cellar - An American Place?
I'm sorry.
One of my least attractive characteristics is a tendency to brood. When I mentioned that the Cellar was a US-based forum recently, Flint picked me up on it. I honestly can't find it now. His response - as I remember it - was that it doesn't matter where the forum is based, the internet is international. My point was that to a foreigner, this is a very American place. This thread is not about proving me right and certainly not about proving Flint wrong. I'm just interested to know if anyone else sees a difference between American/ other posters. Personally I never realised there was such a difference between Brits & Americans til I came here. And there are many things/ words/ phrases/ products I thought we had in common that we don't. But then I find many things in common that I thought were quite local to me. And certainly many TV programmes I never guessed had crossed the divide. And you? Have you had any perceptions confirmed or denied? Are we you and you us? Are we really foreigners? Any input welcome. I'm just lancing a boil. |
what your british!?
oh my gosh!! say it aint so! No, there is NO you and us...not in my perception. Just a lovely soul :muse: |
I think everyone here has such, um, unique characteristics, that it's hard for me to even classify any group of us as distinctly American, Brit, or whathaveyou...and then be able to see the differences between those groups.
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I think you're both right.
The majority of posters are in the US, so it does seem like an american board in that it would not occur to us americans to specify that we are talking about american subjects when we do... while foreign content is usually noted as such. But like flint mentioned, there is a disproportionate number of posters from philly, and being one of them myself, it doesn't occur to me to specify that I am talking about a local phenomenon when I am, I just assume that some will know what I'm talking about and others won't. Not a big deal either way. I would love to see more non-americans (is that the pc term for ferriners?) join and post. Especially pics and videos... |
Yes, it's very American. But not necessarily "Average American". The people here tend to have a sense of humor which has more in common with the Brit and Aussie senses of humor than your average joe on the street (in my experience) ...those who don't get offended quickly and leave.
Very few people who have not lived on the both sides of the Atlantic for an extended period of time, have any idea how different the US and UK are -the commonality in language lures us into a false sense of security. But they are very different and I regularly find myself thinking "oh, I wonder if the Brits will understand that?" (usually, not as in understand the words literally, but more the context behind them). it's not necessarily a bad thing -it's not like it's an Americans-only thing, but yes, it's very American. There are many types of "very American" --huge place as this is-- this is just one type. A good type. (in the main ;)) The difference becomes most obvious in the politics forum, which is more that a little incredibly American. Only Dana is brave enough to face that time and time again. Most of the rest of us furriners are too scared of the "friendly fire" ;) |
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Americanly Challenged or AC |
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that sounds about right, except it's not called the American Politics forum..... :p
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To illustrate the difference between Brits and Americans:
I used to have a British ex-pat neighbor. His wife's car sported a bumper sticker that read "Paul Revere was a snitch!" He was honestly afraid that he would offend me, what with me being a rabid patriot and conservative. When I found out, I made a point of telling him I found the sticker hilarious and not offensive in the least. We then shared a good laugh over the different points of view. He also refers to the American Revolution as the American Rebellion. Again, just a different perspective. Brian |
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It's noteworthy that "Americans" who speak English as a second language (not just those residing in the rest of the Americas; but, US citizens and non-citizens residing here) have not found their way to the Cellar in the numbers that primary English speakers from elsewhere have. Perhaps a common language offers a real sense of security. |
the numbers
list of countries by native English-speaking population
the top ten: Quote:
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I think the differences make it different and fun. All are welcome, as far as I'm concerned.
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How are those language and cultural differences felt because honestly I don't understand.
I never occured to me to think of this as an 'American board' ok where are the NON American boards so I can go compare? |
Here's the thing: I agree this is an American board in the sense that it is populated by mostly Americans and there are cultural references that are assumed or missing because of it.
BUT when you say it's an "American board," you risk implying that it is unwelcoming to anyone who is not American, and I hope everyone can agree that is far from the case. Maybe it's an "American-heavy board?" |
It is very welcoming. Yes it is American-heavy, but even that sounds negative. It might just as well be called intelligence-heavy or open-minded-heavy.
Sky you won't see the cultural and language differences because you are not the foreigner here. I can point some out to you if you're interested - I didn't initially because it might have sounded like a complaint. I choose to post here and I have no issue with the demographic at all. I guess I just wondered if anyone else acknowledged it. Dana described Monster as our translator the other night - and not just in language (we're exposed to enough American TV/ movies to work most things out). But more to do with culture and attitude. In fact I think Monster works more to translate us for you - or at least me. A couple of times she's advised me that the thing I am protesting is quite normal and acceptable. I appreciate it. I do welcome the differences. It's the same reason I love to travel in the UK, and travelled abroad when I had the funds. I like to eat other people's bread and drink their beer. Well, it saves buying my own ;) |
So, my MIL is here visiting from the UK. (Banana Lady) She's been here many times. In one sentence she managed to use three phrases that stuck out: Swimming Baths (Pool), Changing room (Locker Room) and Costume (swimsuit). Not that you wouldn't have known what she mean in the main, but the language is that different. So it feels alien. (not unwelcoming, just alien).
Brits see a lot of American movies and TV, and read American books, so they're pretty used to the language, but Americans don't get to see a lot of Brit films unless they seek them out, Brit TV shows are usually dubbed or remade with American actors and books are Americanized before being published here. So Americans don't get an accurate exposure to British English, so it's harder for them to realize how different the language is. How often in the day do you (Americans) use the word "gotten"? Brits don't (in the main). How often do you use the word regular? Regular sized.... most common use in UK is to describe bowel movements that are not abnormal. We use "normal" when we mean average, everyday, not big or small or unusual in anyway. ...but on to what Sundae is stressing in her post, there are activities and situations in each country that are accepted and perfectly ordinary that in the other country would be totally bizarre. American... Halloween.... I saw ET and thought the Halloween scene in that was just part of the fantasy. Brits -it's not, it's like that and more. Americans, Halloweem in UK is little more than teenage louts demanding money with menace. In the US, there really is steam coming out of the grids in the city streets, and there really are yellow traffic lights strung over the road swaying in the wind. We Brits assume these are romantic elements of America past when we see them in movies. Americans, the thatched cottages you get to see are almost all gone -too big a fire risk, too expensive to maintain. That is a romantic element of England past.....but it sells. I could go on, but I won't. I love both places, I'm really happy here in America, I don't think the board is unwelcoming to Brits, but it is American in the main. |
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We only have 5 official channels and Channel 4 has the best news (opinion - mine and the people I work with full-time). I post occasionally, but it's a fast moving board, don't look for me. I have no idea if you will feel foreign, I haven't searched it out in order for you to do so, it's just one of the few British boards I post one. I'm not trying to compare it to the Cellar - it's based on a British TV show (albeit the news). I just don't know many others with a British feel. |
hi SG,
I am not interested in making an account and too lazy to search for you I did go read the first page and I didn't see anything but english type written by humans. :P Even when I read other countries newspapers I still don't see the 'foreigner' aspect. I am sorry you feel this way. When my canadian friend tells me he had a 'pint' I know he means a beer. My mind dosn't scream foriegner. I love hearing about his Ukranian heritage which includes alot of food I have never heard of and it is in these subtle differences that make life rich and valuable. I think this board is valuable for having people from around the world. It makes a rich community and a place where people can learn from one another. From the first time I ever saw your posts I thought,"there is the nicest person there, that sundae girl person" :) |
Sky, PLEASE don't think I have a problem with this board or I am upset at being a foreigner or I have an issue with Americans! There is nothing for you to feel sorry about - I am posting on the best forum on the internet and everythig I post is exotic because I come from England (;))
I only posted the forum example because I felt I was wimping out of putting my money where my mouth is. Of course no-one should have to go to another forum to prove *my* point. For the record, some differences you would see are: British-centric political debates - real importance given to British issues; the Government always means the Houses of Parliament; discussions on the NHS are not usually focussed on why it's worse than private healthcare; education debates NEVER feature the idea of scrapping state-funded education; anything stating "we" refers to (at most) the UK; disparaging remarks about popular culture feature people/ programmes/ magazines that you won't have heard of etc etc etc Please take on board what Monster (a transplant between the two countries) has written. I like people regardless of nationality. Always have, always will. And here I have a wonderful example of a community where I have been welcomed and allowed to make the occasional aside without being run out of town. Hell I can happily post something Just For The Brits and am never called on it. I dunno. Maybe not seeing the foreignness is another cultural difference. I can't count Clod. She's ditched the Texan accent to the extent she's practically British anyway in my eyes anyway. |
Sky, if you permit, when I see, I will "translate" some of your future posts into British. You currenty come across as very American, although clearly you do not feel so. You may not even be American for all I know, but since I've been here, you've had stars and stripes in your aura.
And please let me repeat at this point that no-one here is saying that being American is a bad thing..... just maybe all y'all don't realise just how "different" that is from the rest of the world -that fact that we understand the words you're saying doesn't neam we interpret them in the same way. Lots of room for misunderstandings created by the myth of a common language. |
So here's the post to get me banned....
Feeling black, much, Sundae?
This whole thread is a little like the "equality and diversity" conversations all over the US -especially in education and government, but pretty much everywhere. Black People: We don't feel heard/understood. We know we're in the minority, but that doesn't mean we are wrong -we just have cultural differences, and maybe we know different things that could help We just want to be involved. (much silence....) {we're at this point now} next to come: White people: My Bad. We don't have enough diversity, this committee is all white but we represent black people too.... does anyone know of a black person who think like us? or maybe someone brownish? Mr Cohen? Awesome. Well, if he can't make the regular Friday night neetings, then he can't be really committed to the cause.... |
oh, and ;)
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SG, I know what you're saying and I agree with you. I don't think you've said anything bad and I don't think you should feel bad for bringing it up. So to answer your question; no, I don't think you're the only one who's noticed it.
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I definitely think of the Cellar as a primarily 'American' place. By that I mean it is primarily American in culture and tone.....not that it has borders and gates and passport checks on the way in.
This, to me, is a good thing. I actually don't post on English forums much. I am a member of one, a Politics forum. It is not as entertaining as this place is. When I was into massively multiplayer games, I played on the American servers wherever possible, even though it often meant the game ran sluggishly and I had to become virtually nocturnal whenever I wanted to play in a large group. I loved being a brit amongst the Americans in those games. Like here, there were many different nationalities involved, and like here there was no sense of exclusivity based on nationality. The differences between us are sometimes startling, other times mere hints. They can be frustrating but more often they're intriguing. monster I think has an interesting point about how much more exposure we (Brits) generally have to American language patterns and cultural references than you (Americans) have to the British equivalent. We may be more conscious of the differences because of that exposure. In my lifetime, I have seen the language of my country change and adopt aspects of American English. Gaol has become Jail, for example. Gotten.....not used much here, but I find myself using it from time to time. Gas station instead of petrol station, I hear from time to time also. Okay, hi, yeah (instead of the more English yeh) are all common now. Not saying this is necessarily a bad thing, but its definitely happening. Even so, most British contact with American language and culture is passive in nature. It is television and movies and books. What's marvellous about the Cellar is it is not passive. The American language and culture is being actively expressed and meeting up with the British culture as that is actively expressed (and Australia and New Zealand etc). It's in that meeting of two actively expressed languages and cultures that we can see how distinct they really are; a fact, as monster says, which is often hidden by the shared basic language. I have often found myself arguing the toss in here only to realise that we are using the same words to mean different things, or that a word which is purely functional here is culturally loaded there, and vice versa. Sky, chill babe, nobody's attackin anybody or complaining about the cellar. Sundae picked up on something from another thread and decided to examine the question in its own right. Is it an American board? Yeah, I'd say so. Not exclusively so, but culturally and demographically, it is primarily American. Mind you, there's an argument to suggest that the internet is much the same ;P |
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Actually you have misread me. I've only been contributing as S.G asked and trying to reassure. I don't think anyone is attacking anyone or complaining. I think I have been positive and just making points like the brits do. I am a very low key person. To repeat. I wouldn't know if anyone was british if they hadn't made it a point to let people know. |
Teh Cellr: Primarily American, with delicious dashes of foreigny-goodness.
I think this sort of thing is the coolest part about the internet for me. I've had friends that I've never met who live all around the world. In a given day in my MMORPG I used to log on early and talk with my friend from japan, help him practice his english, then go and play with my american friends, from all over the country, and then spend the early evening with my british friends. We've argued and had to re-explain words and phrases that aren't common to one another, and we all just think it's damn cool that we know someone from so far away. One of my friends used to sit and lecture me about american gov't just because he knew I was american, and he didn't have any other american friends. He was shocked to learn that I don't agree with some policies, and even more shocked to find out which things he thought were true, and which were stereotypes. It was fun for me, showing him another (different) side of americans, just as it was fun for my first australian friend to talk with me on the phone. (He put me on speakerphone while he was at a party once, so that I could talk with his friends...because I have such a funny accent.) Then a few weeks later I let my best friend talk to him online, and she was confused and didn't understand a lot of what he said...which I found suprising. So even without noticing it, I had absorbed enough australian thought pattern/slang/whatever to translate the things he said to her.
Regarding the cellar individually, I joined because I got the feeling it was primarily based out of pennsylvania, from speech and subjects and of course the number of posters who live here, so I would agree that the board probably feels primarily american, with delicious dashes of foreigny-goodness. |
i think all you furrners need to wear special tags so's we can tell ya apart. don't want none o' yer treacherous types slippin in amongst us red blooded a'merkens.
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Oh right.
You know who else made people wear special tags don't you? Yellow stars much? Shocking, shocking. |
I'll have you know I only have one oven and you have nothing to worry about. Now get back in line.
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I have two ovens. The gas isn't working in one of them though. You thought waiting on a delayed plane was bad... ;)
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Such a rich field to pick over.
There are things to like and dislike about both, they are the same yet very different. I don't think you would ever see a show like Two Fat Ladies on US TV And I doubt that very many US comedy shows make the grade in the UK. n Flinto notice how bland and non committal my threads are these days? |
Mike, the point was never to compare the two and say which was best.
It was just to acknowledge that to those of us coming in from the outside, this place has a really American feel. I think that's been proved by the fact that those who see it are not American, and those that don't, are. |
The enigmatic Michael (owner of AG) has returned to fix some of the broken features, like Online Users...currently:
United States of America (7) Canada (2) Denmark (1) Mexico (1) Netherlands (1) United Kingdom (1) How's that for international? The total number of non-Americans is almost equal to the total number of Americans. Is that an "American" board? |
No idea, I never go there.
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There are 304,738,000 people in the US, but only 60,587,300 in the UK. Does that make the world an "American" world?
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It's the trends. There were 271,645,200 people in the US ten years ago, and 59.236.500 people in the UK ten years ago. The US increase is 10.8% while the UK increase is 2.6%.
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hahah fair point, Flint, can't fault it.
But....to take my tongue out of my cheek for a moment: the analogy doesn't really hold up. The internet does not contain all of humanity, merely those who choose to take part in it. The world however, contains all humanity. If you ask me, does the fact that England has far more British people in it than any other group, make it a British country, I say yes. |
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Yeah but, if they aren't Cellar members, or at minimum Cellar lurkers, they're nobody.:lol2:
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And I'm not saying there isn't one, but, between the US and the UK? I can't see a reason for that. |
hey geeks? STFU. that's all.;)
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Go play with your Star Wars toys, fanboy!
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Current "online users" at AG:
United States of America (3) Canada (1) Bolivia (1) India (1) Mexico (1) Peru (1) Sweden (1) This is the board where I cut my teeth. I've always thought the internet was a big ol' melting pot. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around the concept of an "American" internet site. |
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I'm not saying there will be an equal number of Afghanis or Rwandans here. |
It's also partly defined by available infrastructure. You're right, Flint, that the difference between the US and the UK is less than that between the US and some other countries, but we are still behind you in terms of coverage. We've started catching up, but that's quite a recent phenomenon. During the dial-up days and even into the beginnings of ADSL, BT had a virtual monopoly on all but cable connections. About three years ago their ability to control the overall infrastructure was removed; that and the burgeoning of broadband has opened the market up quite a bit. It is still very expensive here compared to US internet prices and consequently access is less spread across the economic groups.
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I'm waiting for the first Dwellar from Papua New Guinea.
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AG online users right now:
United States of America (4) Canada (4) Italy (1) Mexico (2) United Kingdom (1) [Other] (2) |
Y'know, I really don't understand what is so difficult to accept about a community which began as a Philedelphia affair and then grew into a wider community with members from far flung places, but the largest portion of which are still in America, being an American board. That doesn't mean it is exclusively an American board. It merely means that the dominant culture is that of America. This is not a bad thing. I do not believe members like myself, who post here from other countries, feel like they are any less a part of the community than the American members are.
London is a cosmopolitan city and there are people of every culture and background, cheek to jowl and living as citizens. It is still, fundamentally, an English city. An English city which has become more than that, a world city. This is an American board, but it is an American board which has become more than that, a world board. It is both. |
I kind of view it as a Philadelphia board that's been taken over by the internet.
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*smiles* I can see that.
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