We are readers
 

I recently suggested Achewood to a dude at work. "Oh this involves a lot of reading," he said. He was not interested in a comic that required reading. He prefers Cyanide and Happiness.

Dwellars, we are readers; we read and consume the words. We type at various speeds, but our primary characteristic is that we are readers. We connect the words to the real people behind them, because we take the time to understand the words and understand the motivations behind using them.

are you saying "people" are readers? or Dwellars are readers?

Reading.is.good. Fundamental even. I was recently discussing this with my boss, speaking about kids and reading. Reading teaches vocabulary, writing, and analytical and judgment skills. I don't care if you have a degree in whatever--if you are not a reader, you don't sound or come across as educated.

Personally, I have a hard time with comics or graphic novels of any stripe. Not enough words to read! I can appreciate them, for the art, the story, and the concepts, but for enjoyment--give me a nice fat book anytime.

I was standing in a queue to buy a couple of books in whsmith's yesterday (dr who books, but don't hold that against me :P) and there was a guy sitting at a table signing books. A woman and her fella who were in the queue behind me were vocally wondering what was going on up there and I ended up in conversation with them. I can't recall exactly what led to this comment, but the woman said something along the lines of: I wouldn't even buy a magazine, let alone a book. I joked that I am the other way, in that I spend way too much money on stuff like that. She then went on to tell me that she'd only ever read one book, "A Child Called It".

She was clearly exaggerating slightly, because she went on to say that the second in the trilogy was just a rehash of the first, but can you imagine that? Can you imagine identifying yourself as someone who has only ever read one book and would never dream of spending money on reading material?

thx

I know people like that. It's weird. Ignorance is not sexy to me.

I remember seeing a horrible statistic about how the majority of Americans never read another book in their lives after leaving high school. That is so incredibly hard for me to fathom.

Ah yes, here's where it came from. The statistic is certainly bogus since A.) it is immediately followed by a contradicting one

and B.) there is a third contradicting stat that actually has a credible citation:

So many times I have heard people say, "Oh I used to love reading, but I read so much at University it put me off..."

What? That's like saying I breathed too much yesterday, I think I'll cut down today.

Scary to think that these people are two levels of education above me, with the paperwork to prove it.

Yea. I thought being literate was a standard. I have had people refuse to read important things because they are "too long". wtf is going on with people not giving a crap enough about anything to read? What's with closing libraries because of the internet? Where do people think real content comes from, and what is credible source anymore to anyone? What are facts and where do they come from if you can not read and it is not fashionable to do so? I have to dumb things down everywhere for marketing purposes so people will latch on to stuff they were interested in, in the first place. Why do I have to package things because people won't read. It's stuff they like in the first place because my stuff is extremely targeted. People are so stupid right now. It's a matter of writing so people will read it, short packaged terms, make it pretty, and make it so some stupid assistant doesn't throw it out somewhere in the world. Why? Because she/he doesn't know her boss is interested and that is exactly what her/his boss does for a living but she/he doesn't know enough to fucking read. I am sorry for my rant. I am tired of dumbing things down for people and making it look pretty. If it's too wordy people trash it. I am a reader and writer and this is starting to piss me off and my age is showing. I learn a lot from the older and wiser. Why? Because they read and absorb. They have a bit of continuity that is sadly lacking. They have character. If you don't love books or reading do not breed. Sorry. Ok. Done.
I don't mean all of that, I just get tired of packaging valuable things in a dumbed down fashion. It's expected and you do it.

I want to fight it. But that will go where? Nowhere. Newspeak people. Newspeak. No ready writey. Pretty picture with words on it.
The details make the body of everything. Everything is a compilation of details, wtf is wrong with people? Everything is the sum of parts and if you can not describe those parts what do you know? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And no I am not going to source wikipedia here on illiteracy.Ok I'm really done, for real. Touchy subject I guess. Carry on.
(I guess I am not actually done here)
I think this is what Socrates was describing long ago. And now we are at our worst. Globally 'merican. Speak our lingu-age. I am tired of dumbing things down even for readers like you. I start speaking at work and one person understands me there, even though I am intentionally being direct and accurate one-hundred percent. I have to package things tightly just to talk to our owner. They think I am a freak because I can speak and write eloquently and be incredibly stupid. It's the intimidation factor. I always wage that. If I am talking over everyone's heads they think I am crazy when I know and few others know I am dead-on. Whatever. Even my husband thinks I am crazy because of things I know. There are lots of things I read and know about. I have actualized my reading material that came from all ages but people do not get a thing. I am "crazy" because I am smart, not a genius, and I know it. Part of being resourceful is reading the entire body of something including all the details. I read authors that write about one word for 200 pages font 9. I am a reader of the worst kind becuse I care about what I read and judge from there and question everything if I think I need to. I feel sorry for the scholars in a world of chaotic stupidity. They are doomed and lost for good reason.

Extra long post.
:D
Thanks for listening.

I've been a reader all my life. And have been referred to as a f@##$$ing know it all, by the less informed. Guess I'm ill mannered, but i keep a book on kitchen table.

hit a nerve, there, Cicero, lol! What things are you "packaging?"

It's all relative. Since last August I've been a volunteer tutor for a local adult literacy program. They assigned me a guy who was 32 and read about about a 3 1/2 grade reading level (aka an 8 or 9 yo). They currently have about 100 people waiting for tutors (my student was on the list for over a year).

*smiles* I loved being a literacy tutor. How are you finding it Steve?

lol! Sorry Cloud, I kind of went off the deep end there!

My Grandad is barely literate. In fact he's the last of my four grandparents and the same was true of all of them. They were supposed to attend school until they were 14 but the longest any of them made was 12 and they all had sketchy attendance from the start as they were needed at home.

I know of at least two late 50s early 60s regulars in the pub who can barely read. They shrug and say they manage to get by.

And countless others of my parents generation, and mine who can read and write reasonably but take no pleasure in either.

It's not a new thing is what I'm trying to say.
Bless the internet for bringing us together here.

I think he's lying.
 

but there's a difference between being literate and being a reader. Plenty of people I know are perfectly literate--educated even, but they don't read for personal enrichment or pleasure.

That's the thing I can't get my head around. I have really good friends who just don't read except for their job. Others who, like sundae was saying, were put off reading by doing a degree. I can't imagine never reading for pleasure.

Sorry, I was making two confused but separate points.

The media here often get over-excited about literacy rates in this country. All part of the going to hell on a bandwagon thing. So I shoe-horned the fact that literacy rates have been far from perfect in previous generations into my response. It touches on the subject because both my parents love to read and taught me too as well. Read and love it I mean. Dad is dyslexic, finished school at 14 and missed plenty of time in between. He read The Lord of the Rings to my brother (I was 11, read it myself but was still horribly jealous).

My secondary point, and more to the OT was what Clod said and Dana reiterated. There are literate people worldwide who don't read for pleasure. But more confusingly, there are literate people who look down on reading for pleasure. As if it's something that should be left behind when you put down crayons.

To each his own and all that (I don't like boxing and wouldn't watch a fight live without an enormous bribe) but to dismiss all the various forms of reading as pointless. I have heard the "What's the point argument" and it is so alien to me.

And to anyone reading this I guess :)
IS this just a group pat on the back?!

I rarely read books anymore because I always feel like I don't have the time, except in the summer when I sit out at the pool a lot. I do read though - I just read about stuff I want to know about, not stories and such.

I ran into that attitude (looking down on reading) in Mexico with my first boyfriend. He was always dissing me for reading (and for other things, but that's another story.)

There seems to be a cultural bias against reading, or perhaps intellectual pursuits in general. Maybe not at all class levels, but in the lower classes. A by-product of a near-universal 6th grade level of education, perhaps. If it's good-enough-for-me and a not-honest-work kind of thing.

We need to be careful how we present reading to kids. All of ours love to read. They virtually begged to be taught to read and were already fluent readers when they started school. But they saw us read and enjoy it and get lost in books and heard us read to them and go past their bedtime in order to reach the end of the chapter, and use the internet or go to the encyclopedia to answer all their questions if we couldn't....all the time.

If you don't see your parents reading, if they tell you they're too busy to read or they don't like it, if you turn up at school way behind some of the other kids.... you're already off to a poor start. And if the school is not then careful about how they present learning to read -if they ram it down your throat, treat it like a chore and make it obvious that you are not as good as some other kids.... well you're not going to view it as a pleasure. So you scrape through school reading the bare minimum to keep the assholes happy. And college if you have to. And then you never ever pick up another book again. And you have no need -you have the TV where the nice people read the words for you and even go so far as to tell you what you should think about it. Lovely. Easy.


Grrr. Breaks my heart when I go into the school and there are 1st, 2nd and 3rd graders who "hate" reading and refuse to try. Someone has set them up for failure. They're scared of not ever being able to do it properly, so they just don't want to try. reading is huge, it is important. but kids don't need to know this. Like anything else, the more they know you want them to do it, the more they'll dig their heels in.

Oh dear, i'm ranting....

I'm a bit skeptical of the party line, "if you love to read, and your children see you love to read, they'll be readers for life." Reason? One of my kids is a reader--the other isn't. And, obviously, I've been a reader all my life, and encouraged both equally. The not-reader doesn't read for pleasure, though she will read non-fiction in order to learn more about something she wants to know about or to answer a question.

Oddly enough, the not-reader is the child of the not-reader mentioned above (and the other kid, the reader-has a different father.) Doubt it means anything, but it makes me wonder.

Party Line? Please. no-one said it was written in blood, but it's a damn site harder for it to happen if they don't see that and hear negative things about reading.

huh? The person you are describing is a reader. You may not get pleasure from reading to find answers/increase knowledge, but many do. Hell of an assumption there.

I just went to the book store Borders and just came back.
I was browsing books, on, ahem...meeting women and stuff..ahem.
There were these two really good books I was gonna purchase, something about "Beat the Shy" or something like that and one entitled "How to succeed with women." I was really excited to get these books!

Except...there was this girl I knew from high school working the register...I only knew her as an acquaintance, and for her to see me buying these books! :bolt:

Exactly the reason I need these books...

not sure what's irritating you there, Monster, but the "if your kids see you reading" thing seems to be a standard assumption of educators.

I don't think that daughter (No. 1) has read a single book all the way through since leaving school. That, to me, is a not-reader.

Maybe it's just by comparison, though. She will look at, and consult books on specific topics.

Amazon, dude.

Define Educator, please. I'm a parent. But so are you. I'm not a teacher.

Why don't you consider it reading if it isn't from cover to cover? non-fiction is set up to be read in sections, as needed. It IS reading. J'accuse of being a fiction snob.

um, you expect me to engage in some kind of pointless debate with you about semantics? Not my style.

Reading is good.

reowring up the wrong tree

nope. I expect you to put up or shut up, which you're doing, so that works :)

...but don't be down on your kid... just because they don't like to read the same stuff you do or in the same way you so, doesn't make them a non-reader. they need your support, not criticism. jmo, of course.

Could, my two sons have very different reading habits and they both have the exact same examples of reading from Daryl and myself. We both read for pleasure almost every night. We have shelves and shelves of fiction books at home suitable for the kids as well as for us (although we don't generally recommend Stephen King for the kids).

Our youngest boy can get so absorbed in a book it's to the exclusion of everything else. Aden would much prefer to talk on the phone or play computer games which we don't necessarily like, but it's his thing. Sometimes he likes to read and sometimes he doesn't. I don't think he'd care if he never read another book in his life, but I know Mav would.

Kids like every other person are different, and once they're old enough to choose what they do for pleasure, some of them are readers, and others aren't. Acknowledging that difference as a parent is fine too. I don't think it shows that you're not supportive of your child at all. It just shows that you know your child.

My sister sees reading the same way I see crazy golf. Something to do on holiday to pass the time, that's fun for kids but has no place in an adult's normal day.

Then again she has two children, so has a lot more to fit into her usual day.

No, it's not a time things really - it's an attitude thing. It's just not important to her, whereas it fills a big part of my leisure time one way or another (book, magazine, internet).

Monster, I wouldn't call someone who consults non-fiction books a reader. Other than in the most literal sense that they have read something. I have drawn people diagrams of how to get to my house, I'm not a cartographer. I'm also not a fiction snob - although it is far and away my personal preference. I knew a guy into the SAS (sad but true). He gobbled up everything he could find written about them - and nothing else. I'd still have called hiom a reader.

I would. If they are just dippingin for necessity then that's a non-emotional way of accessing. But, if they adore reading about a period in history, or they just get a rush of excitement at reading about different types of warfare, or looking at diagrams and texts that show how engines go together.....if they emotionally connect then they are readers.

When I wrote "consults" I meant as in looking up a specific fact. Like using a dictionary, instead using a reference book as the means to an end. The book is a source and nothing else. The words "adore", "rush", "emotionally connect" would definitely signal a reader to me (as in my example above - he loved reading about the SAS, therefore he was a reader).

Ahh right, gotcha.

I devoured books as an adolescent. I loved to read. I read so much then because I had HUGE blocks of time with nothing to do. I was always looking for the next book to read. I was hooked.

Today, I read kids books every night to my kids. I read how-to books all the time when they are related to a project I'm working on. I've got a stack of books on my bedside table and I read for 15-30 minutes every night before turning out the lights.

But I really don't read novels anymore. I just don't have the time, or desire, or something, to get into a long novel. I read maybe 1-2 novels a year. I only want to read a novel if it's an outstanding novel, and it's hard to find those. I feel cheated when I've read a novel and it wasn't that good.

Dana, it's a fascinating, disturbing, rewarding, and humbling.

So go back to the shelf and pick up Penthouse Letters Vol. XXXIV to add to your purchases. I guarantee, she'll never even remember you bought the other two.

Uh disagree there - you are the most important teacher your child will ever have.


:lol2: So very true!

I will take my group "pat on the back" as a member of the group. Why not?
;)
I think reading and non-reading is based on the regularity of reading anything at all, and the amount. I think it's quite simple.


If you are an involved, regular member of the cellar, you are a reader. Just take the compliment.
:)

Unless you want to be identified with the new non-reading "cool" class. I'm hip, not a reader. plbbbbt.

Put those books down and carry "You, Inc", "Talent is Never Enough", "Now Go Find Your Strengths", and one pleasure reading book to the register. She'll recognize you, talk to you, maybe about the books, maybe not, but she'll know you're not sitting around playing video games 23 hours a day. Hopefully you get the chance to chat, if not, you've got some good books and a little more experience in not being terrified of a woman.

You should have seen the look I got at the bookstore from the clerk when I special ordered, "How to Heal the Hurt by Hating"!!

It was a funny book, but the elderly clerk did not "get it". But I never actually gave a darn because they should be professional enough not to bat an eyelash at anything you buy or order, in their store.

As a response to what lookout said, I am uncomfortable when clerks notice my book habits and subjects, then ask me out. One time it happened right in front of my husband with him standing right there. But that might work for you fresh as a convo. starter.

we're obviously not reading about the Crimean war, though.

umm....actually, I have been reading a couple of journal articles about the Crimean war this week :P

I'm not sure what you mean Clouder. I just had to read about it, because you just wrote that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War

Not only that, I just realized that I had read about it before because of the volumes I, II, and III set of , memoirs of Napoleon, on my "favorites and rare" book shelf.

;)

I think "we" are reading a lot of things. On the cellar and off the cellar.

refer to the Balaclava thread

Mmm..that sounds delicious!! Alright I am so there!!

um, no, not that kind . . .

oh, nevermind!

lol!!
;)

She shoots, she scores!! ding ding ding!

So, I was at lunch today, sitting by myself reading a book, which I often do (just call me Eleanor Rigby); when my server, a pimply faced kid no older than 20, commented, "Oh, you're reading, that's good. Not many people read these days."

I'm sure he was only trying to connect, say something nice, in order to be a good server and get a good tip, but it left me nonplussed. What do I say to that?

Especially since I wasn't exactly reading great literature. In fact, I was was reading a vampire detective novel called "The Nymphos at Rocky Flats.":blush: I just kinda mumbled something like, "Yeah, well, I'm oldskool" and kept on reading.

I've got Nymphos of Rocky Flats. I recognized some of the locations because I used to work right next to Rocky Flats while they were cleaning it up.

that's cool--there's a sequel, too. may read it if I like the first one enough.

It's a picture book?

So here's something weird: back in the day when I would have lunch out by myself, I always felt like a huge nerd when I had my book with me. But I didn't feel weird at all if I picked up the Chronicle (local free alternative newspaper thing) at the door and just read that instead. Like if I had my book, then I must have already known that morning that I would be eating alone, so I must have no friends--but if I wasn't prepared and thus needed to browse through a Chronicle, well, sometimes lunches alone happen to everyone, right?

I also hated it when the waiters would ask me what I was reading and what it was about. Can't really explain why, I just don't like people watching me read or something.

Bonus points for correct usage of nonplussed.

nonplussed != unimpressed (common irritating mistake)

I know what nonplussed means -- 'cause I'm a reader!

The above conversation about reading in restaurants put me in mind of this:

Never come across that misuse -perhaps it's local to your area?

"unimpressed" came up as one of the definitions in google:define. Not one I use, though