Strange things seen from Airforce One
 

"Well golly gee! We're flying through clouds!"

(I know this is a photoshop thread, but couldn't help myself.)

http://www.gartsvault.com/Accounts/K.../bushkitty.jpg

Sorry I haven't posted in a while, I got hitched a week and a half ago

"Pilot, I think we should have taken that left turn at Albuquerque."

http://www.tobiasly.com/misc/pics/ai...one_window.jpg

hahaha. left turn at albuquerque. hahaha. ahhhh...that was amusing, sorry.

Congrats Ike!

There must be some good 4th of July images to be seen from Airforce One ... hmmm

http://cellar.org/2002/flowerflag.jpg

Yes, this here's a flag created from planted flowers (400,000 larkspurs it is), and pictured from space.

Damn, Tony, that's today's IotD

Can you edit your IotD dates to show this on the 4th and that Chinese haircut as tomorrow's "friday" image? LOL

Where's yer PATRIOTISM, man?

Well I just don't feel that way about the flag.

Y'see, I'm an atheist, and I've known that and understood the implications ever since I was in fourth grade. For years and years I was basically coerced into making a pledge that I didn't believe in. This made me feel less patriotic where the flag is concerned.

When Bush Sr. said that he didn't consider atheists to be citizens or patriots, and wrapped himself in the flag and the pledge to win the presidency, it had the effect of driving me even further away.

I believe in the principles behind the USA. I believe in defending them and would do so to my death. I know the country is not perfect and I don't expect it to be, but that it is generally a tremendous source for good in the world. I respect and love the country, but the flag symbol does not hold that same feeling for me.

And this is not a new thing for me after this week; I've felt this way all along.

YOU GODLESS BASTARD! ;)

Nic, where's YOUR patriotism? Canada Day was Monday. :)

Good words, man.

I personally like the flag itself (what a great design!), and admittedly, it does give me some pride at times, like seeing it raised during the Olympic medal ceremonies. I don't like many things that the flag stands for, especially since 9/11 and the pledge fiasco. I'm not going to go around waving it and going "Whoofuckinghoo!" And if you want to burn it, go for it...I think it's a good method of protest, if done carefully.

But the funny thing is, it pisses me off to no end that a lot of Americans aren't displaying it properly (hanging it the wrong way, not keeping a light on it at night)...if you're going to do it, at least do it right.

I'm proud to be an American, within reason. I do get a sense of awe when I walk around the corner from work and look at Independence Hall sitting there on Chestnut St. I'm proud of the many accomplishments the US and Americans have made in the timeline of life. But I think one's nationalistic pride must be tempered with realism.

Syc,

You mean you don't real [syc] :p all my posts?

http://www.cellar.org/showthread.php...5&pagenumber=7

Ummm, did you mean "read?" ;)

I apologize Nic...with the number of posts that come in, I miss a couple on occasion.

Must stop waiting a week to post...
 

here ya go.

also also wik
 

http://home.attbi.com/~perthcatt1/arthur.jpg

~james

hype
 

no pun intended :-)

The Flag
 

Isn't it great that we live in a country where you can choose to do anything you want, and call it freedom of speech. In other countries they cut off your head. (What a novel idea for the death penalty for the US - public execution - we could set up stands and sell things). I terribly mind when someone desecrates MY flag. I know its ONLY a symbol, but there is nothing that stirs my heart than to see "Old Glory". I respect the right of American Citizens to burn the flag, as long as they respect my right to walk up to them and empty a fire extinguisher on them. What the hell, my first amendment rights!

Re: The Flag
 

What the hell, so long as you don't mind being charged with assault.

But it wouldn't be assault. It would be my patriotic duty to help put out a dangerous fire that could harm bystanders. That couldn't be considered assault, that could be considered heroism (hehe). Just kidding. We have never had a flag burning since I have been in Denver, but I am just waiting for my chance to extinguish one. I honestly do not believe that anyone would be stupid enough to try that now. I think that the police would look the other way if anything happened. Merely my opinion.

I liked a part that was in "The American President". I'll relate it here.

The greatest symbol of our country is not the flag. It is the protestor burning the flag, symbolizing the freedoms upon which this nation was built. What an amazing country we can live in where I could burn the flag as a celebration of our great nation.

I doubt that you would ever hear such words uttered in any corner of our country, other than Hollywood. Their idea of patriotism just doesn't quite fit in with the vast majority of Americans. Foreign nationals, perhaps, but not true blooded Red/White/Blue Americans. Remember, Hollywood is just another name for fantasy land. It is only as true as they want it to be.

I think dham just uttered those words and I would be happy to re-utter them. Neither of us could safely be called liberals by any stretch. Welcome to your fantasy land.

That's all it ever is for everyone and everything, actually.

Verb, those pretzels are making me thirsty! good one.

<a href="http://sounds.wavcentral.com/televis/seinfeld/pretzels_thirsty.wav">Kramer</a>
<a href="http://sounds.wavcentral.com/televis/seinfeld/pretzels_thirsty2.wav">Elaine</a>
<a href="http://sounds.wavcentral.com/televis/seinfeld/pretzels_thirsty3.wav">Jerry</a>

I am in the Army National Guard and the Young Republicans. I would beat the crap out of any tree-hugging hippie or any other protester I saw trying to burn the flag. But I am also opposed to a flag-burning amendment. I agree that flag burning is a form of free speech. This country is great because any citizen is free to spit in the face (so to speak) of the very people who risk their lives to give them that freedom.

But whoever is stupid enough to try should be willing to face the consequences, and I think that these days those consequences would be pretty painful.

This (burning the flag) is along the lines of the whole pledge deal from a few months back. People were outraged that the 9th Circuit ruled as they did...how unpatriotic that asshole atheist was to file a lawsuit! How unamerican!!!

I think all those people that savaged that man and the 9th Circuit are the true unpatriotic bastards. As would be anyone who physically attempts to stop someone from burning a flag. No one has to like it. In fact, rather than risk assault, why not form your own protest? Grab the biggest stars and stripes you can find, wave it with pride, and lead a group of 100 people in "God Bless America."

I think it's incredibly important right now that we be vigilant about protecting our freedoms, be it guns, travel, speech, burning flags, etc. Those people who fight for such things are the true red white and blue americans.

Ok, here we go for my first image posing here!


http://7cockroach.20m.com/Aug02/WFly.jpg

That looks suspiciously like Mr Market.

Because if I saw someone burning the flag, my goal would not be to show them that I disagree. My goal would be to prevent them from doing so and think twice about it in the future. Like I said, I think a flag-burning amendment is a bad idea, but that doesn't mean I'd sit idly by while someone pissed on everything I hold dear.

I agree it might not be the most intelligent or enlightened response, but I don't really care. If you think that qualifies me as an unpatriotic bastard, fine by me. I'm not interested in winning any popularity contests. I can be a very civil and diplomatic person on most issues, but there are just certain areas where I draw the line. I am against just about any legislation whose primary intent is to take away freedoms or rights, but that doesn't mean I won't do anything about it myself.

.
 

Sorry, Perth. :rolleyes:

Here's the link: http://www.cofcc.org/rally.htm

dammit. nevermind.

What?

Wave the Flag Proudly
 

Here, here, to Tobiasly for his stand on desecration of our flag. WE do not have to like what they do with our flag, and we do not have to sit idly bye while they are allowed, as Americans, to display their Freedom of Speech. Others may hold a rally with the largest flag they can find, I on the other hand will be in the midst of the desecration rally doing everything within my power to disrupt it. Its my flag, I will protect it at all times. Why is it that I never see anyone burning other countries flags? Could it be that they don't want to have their hands cut off? What a great country we live in. Ahh, Freedom!:)

Re: Wave the Flag Proudly
 

That was exactly my point.

Ol Blue Eyes
 

Man, I love your 2 Samuel quotation. Samuel is one of my favorite books. I once taught a class on the life of David that went for 10 month's every Wednesday night.

Once saw this on a T-shirt in a catalog, should have bought it then and now I can't find it:

"To be is to do." Socrates
"To do is to be." Plato
"Scooby dooby do." Sinatra

Hey, if you and Sarge want to risk your own freedom by trying to take away another's, that's on you. The only way I see you stopping someone from burning a flag is through physical force (be it manhandling them, dousing them with water, etc.), which can put you at risk for assault against one of these folks. And if you do happen to assault a flag-burner, as I see it, it puts you on the same level as music and speech censors.

The KKK has adopted a stretch of Interstate 55 in south St. Louis County for litter clean-up. As part of that, they get a neat sign saying that they have adopted said section of highway. The MO Dept. of Transportation originally denied them, but the KKK won in court. Since then, the sign has been torn down several times, with someone finally getting caught doing so last year. I admire the action, yet do not condone it. Protesting an action is one thing...destroying state property is another.

It should also be noted that they (the state) named that stretch of highway the Rosa Parks Highway (or freeway or whatever). It should also be noted that no one ever showed up to clean it, and their sponsorship was ended by the state.

True...I completely forgot about that (the Rosa Parks Highway). I don't remember them being dropped though. The incident I mentioned was probably 2 years ago.

Back to the point though. You don't have to like the Klan. You can hate 'em with all that you've got. But you don't go out and destroy state property, which in the end, only costs the taxpayers. Go out to one of their rallies and razz the hell out of them. Make a neat little sculpture of a tree with a noose on one of its branches, and a Klansman inside the noose. Be creative. :)

Re: .
 

s'alright. dont remember what i said anyways. couldnt have been that important. :)

Morning Sycamore, aren't (is that a word?) you glad that we live in a country where I have the freedom to decide to be as stupid as I want and attempt to break up a rally by a bunch or Red Communist Pinko Sympathizers? You know the KKK was just a bunch of men who had no fashion sense. Imagine, wearing white during winter, how absurd and a definate fashion no-no. (wish I knew how to spell fopau)

Sycamore, I actually agree with most of what you're saying, and if someone else were saying what I was saying to me, I might even argue your point. If that makes sense.

I'm against the government taking away forms of expression, and in general I'm against harming other people or their property to prove a point.

I just know that if I saw someone burning a flag, I doubt I'd go try to reason with them or organize a march. If I saw someone light another person on fire, I wouldn't find a way of protesting their actions, I'd do everything I could to prevent them from doing so. And I think the U.S. flag is such a powerful symbol that I'd do the same thing if that's what they were burning.

Yet I'm against a flag-burning amendment. Go figure. I wasn't trying in my original post to suggest that flag-burners should be systematically beat up, I was trying to point out that not all conservatives want to take away people's rights. Regardless of my personal views on the matter, I wouldn't support an amendment to the Constitution to make flag burning a crime.

bigsarge:

faux pas

~james

Ok, hold onto your seats....I am aslo against a Flag Burning Amendment, even though I belong to almost every veterans organization available. I love our countries commitment to upholding the Free Speech amendment and would voice my opinion when, in any way, that freedom was/is jeapordized. As you all know, I love my country and my flag and agree with Tobiasly that such an amendment as the flag burning would make us no different than those other countries where such things are banned. Let the flag fly, wear it on your back, paint it onto your car, just don't lay it on the ground and walk or urinate on it. Way uncool and really gets my blood boiling. Speaking of our freedom of free speech, didn't congress pass a new law this year that within like 2 to 3 month's of an election that you or I could not go on tv and say anything about one of the candidates, good or bad? Does anyone remember that? if that is not the usurping of free speech, what the hell is? How come the moniker under my name keeps changing? I am getting a complex and have no idea who I am anymore. Thank God it doesn't say Schmuck!

Sarge, the "Custom User Text" there changes every time you write a post, but you can also set it to whatever you want. Hit the "user cp" button at the top of the page, then hit the "edit profile" button on the page that follows. You'll get a page of things you can set up, and the custom user text is about halfway down that page.

(User cp stands for user control panel, but that's not very clear.)

Being a UNIX guy, I <b>still</b> look at that and think "user copy"... that really should be changed. :)

Thanks for the spelling. Unix, is that like a precursor of the unicorn. I thought they where extinct.;)

Lest suspicions arise, I would like to take this opportunity to preemptively point out that Bigsarge and I are not the same person. :) Although I definitely agree with your point on the new soft money bans, and I hope a court strikes them down before long.

How about "my profile" or "my prefs" instead of "user cp" Undertoad? Or, to satisfy dham, "vi ~/.profile" (although he's probably an <B>ed</B> guy).

Eh, ed's alright, but I truly do prefer <b>vim</b>.

Soft Money
 

How does the new soft money ban(s) affect the ordinary everyday citizen? You know, sweet understanding guys like me.

I thought the soft money ban is what you were referring to when you stated you couldn't go on TV whenever you wanted and say something about the candidates. If not, what law are you talking about?

I am unclear if that is the new policy that I am referring to. If anyone can clarify this ban it would be appreciated.

Hey guys,

Let's take this debate to a more appropriate forum please :o

Oh, and it's good to be back after a months absence....

- NBN

Bigsarge.. yes, I am quite sure that is the policy you're thinking of. There were multiple new rules rolled up into the "soft money" ban, including what and when people can broadcast about candidates, using their own money. I'm not really sure of all the details of that legislation, though, but I could be wrong.

NBN, if every time a post on the Cellar evolved into a completely different tangent, we were required to "take it to a more appropriate forum", it would be a rather confusing place. I'm open to being convinced otherwise if there's actually a legitimate reason for staying on-topic. Although I suppose you're the moderator of this forum, so you could delete the entire thread if you want.

Well, you certainly CAN be as stupid as you want...so long as you understand that your actions could have adverse consequences, particularly if your actions infringe on the rights of others.

What's wrong with communism? Sure it was bad in practice, but it's a nice theory, IMO.

I don't get the KKK. If the KKK are so big on protecting the white Christian American, why hide behind a sheet? Wouldn't you be proud to defend that in the open? Of course, they would probably point to someone like David Duke and mention a cornucopia of conspiracies. Now Sarge, haven't you seen the Office Depot commercial featuring Kathy Ireland that discusses wearing white after Labor Day? :)

Of course I have seen those commercials, what, you think I watch MTV all day? I am much more of a History channel and comedy channel guy. Loved your web page. Love your show!

OK, I don't want to piss off NBN <B>too</B> much, so I'll respond to that <B>here </B>

Oh shit, don't even sweat him. Watch as el sicómoro blindly goes off topic...

Tim, where the hell have you been man? When you coming back to Philadelphia? That was a good time man...you had the ladies damn near all over ya. :)