Transgender Second Grader
 

Colorado.I've provided the link as well as the entire article, for those that won't link.

I'm confused by; , but that aside, I find it hard to believe the parents and school would let a second grader make them jump through these hoops.

Sounds like the kid went there for kindergarten, left in the middle of first grade, stayed away for second grade, and is now planning on coming back for the start of third grade. Maybe they even sent him off to another school for awhile with the specific hope that the other kids would "forget" him and make the switch easier.

What I don't really understand is the need to change his name--his name is his name, it doesn't make him a boy or a girl. To me it would seem that keeping his name would be more of a statement of 'this is who I really am." Seems to me kids would have an easier time with "John likes to wear dresses" than pretending there's someone "new" in the class.

What hoops? Children are not inferior beings. It should hardly be an issue in these days of "sexual equality". No one has a problem with a girl wearing pants to school, do they? It's not like the kid's having his tackle chopped off.

So they're letting him/her use a different bathroom. And they've warned teachers. They would also warn teachers if the kid had AIDS or was recently bereaved, and give them guidelines as to how handle any awkward situations that may arise from these issues.

The only difference here is it's harder for the other parents to ignore the questions of their children about the world around them. Good. Dave M. needs to learn to face up to the responsibility of being a parent and all the tricky questions that brings. Blaming the subject of the question just emphasises his incompetance. If it wasn't this question, it would be another. How does he answer the questions about why the Amish dress funny and why the Downs syndrome kids "look funny"?

Admittedly my kids go to a school where we'd barely notice if a kid changed gender, but you can't demand that a child denies how they feel because it makes you uncomfortable. Parents who cannot handle it should look at alternate private education where they can surround themselves with only hand selected model examples of citizens. or home school like the rest of the freaks who can't handle the real word and should never have had children (note, not saying that all homeschooler fit that profile, but many people who do fit that profile, homeschool (and probably shouldn't))

I think I should stop now.

Clodfobble, it's not unusual for kids to want to change their names or be known by a nickname.

Sorry guys, but someone needs to take a hard look at those parents. Someone tell me that this kid is not going to be punching bag for the bullies of the world. This is unsafe. Are they going to let him use the little girls bathroom as well? How about wearing the dress into the little boys room? Something is not right.

True, but I can also tell you from experience that if the kids don't want to call you that there's very little you can do about it. Nicknames require social buy-in unless you have really never met the group of people before.

If he wanted a fresh start, why didn't the family just make one switch, and be the new person at the new school? :confused:

RTFA :rtfm:

Sorry, I don't know what that means.

Read The Fucking Article

Which is to say, the answer to your questions is right there in the first post.

The child obviously has a very clear idea of how he/she wishes to express him/herself. I can't see that this is the parents' 'fault' in some way. It's not unknown for a child to have these kind of gender identity issues at such a young age, and frankly I get the impression the parents are handling it in about as open minded and fair way as is possible. Would you prefer that they enforce their own concept of his/her gender identity onto their child in order to help him/her fit in to school? Those days, hopefully, have gone, along with taking young children who've shown proclivities towards homosexuality to the psychiatrist for a 'cure'.

In terms of the child ending up as a punching bag for bullies....you can send a child who seemingly is absolutely just like all the other children in their cohort to school, and their classmates find something abotu them that's 'different'. It might be something as small as the way they walk, or a slight astigmatism in their eye....you could send a child with glasses to school, braces on their teeth, freckles or eczema, or a little extra weight on their belly and all these things could make them a punchbag at school. There may be no definable reason that you or I could isolate. They could just have the misfortune to come to the attention of the wrong kid at the wrong time and be marked out for the rest of their school years as prime target no.1.

I really don't know what to think about this. I do believe that genuinely transgendered people know from an early age, but I think if I were the parents, I would not encourage public disclosure at this stage.

The number of children born "intersexual" and the subsequent decision of a doctor to perform surgery (for aesthetic or social purposes) to "assign" a gender is much higher than many would ever know. This can lead to gender confusion, as you can guess; some kids notice it earlier especially in these days of much more openness about gender issues.
I don't find the article or issue all that surprising.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/collective/A843176

A similar thing actually just happened at a junior high school near where I live. I was taking a class on U.S. "Social Policy" at the time, and we talked about the issue... how the school was dealing with it by sending a letter to all the parents explaining what was going on and offering pointers on how parents could talk to their kids about it.

Personally, I think it's great that the schools are being accomodating. Maybe some parents don't want their children exposed to things that they consider "abnormal," but the reality of the situation is that there is no safe place on earth where you can control 100% of a child's environment. (If you want to try that, homeschool. I was homeschooled by two working parents, it can be done. Course, I don't exactly thank them for it.)

The one thing that concerns me in cases like this is that 2nd graders seem a little young to fully understand the ramifications of changing gender... If you don't know anything about sex yet, are you really equipped to make that decision? Maybe this kid IS, maybe he'll never regret it.... or maybe in 6 or 7 years, he'll just realize he's gay and maybe likes to cross-dress, and not that he considers himself female.

Kids at that age don't understand the biological reasons for different genders other than that girls become mummies and boys become daddies. They're only just starting to be aware and ask for reasons why girls and boys have different bits - particularly if they only have same sex siblings and the parents aren't the sort to parade around the house naked etc.

I don't see why the children will ask anymore questions than, 'why does little johnny want to wear a dress?' and if a parent can simply tell the child quite calmly, 'because little johnny feels more comfortable in a dress', it probably wont go much further than, 'that's weird'. Of course, some parents might like to remind their child how they like to play dress ups etc, and that Johnny used to do that too but then realized he wanted to wear dresses more often...or something like that.

I really don't think it's a tough issue at all other than for the close minded. There are kids in most schools these days with same sex parents. Maybe other parents can avoid that issue, but if your kid happens to be friends with one of those kids, it become unavoidable very quickly. I know because it happened to our family. The kids certainly didn't seem to care though.

All these types of gender issues are fairly easy to explain to children if you can simply put aside your own predjudices.

Yet, a person who has had an arbitrary decision made regarding their gender, without even the possibility of their consent, will be treated as some kind of oddball, if, at the time of their dawning awareness of this predicament, they notice that the doctors chose the wrong gender.

I don't know if that's the case here, but the numbers are really quite high, for something that almost nobody acknowledges as a factor.

Well, it's not like they're looking into radical gender reassignment surgery. He's changing the way he dresses and the name he is addressed by. That's hardly cast in stone... If "Joe" becomes "Josephine" becomes "Joe" again when he's 16, what's wrong with that? He'll have some strange childhood pics, but then hey, who doesn't?

I don't buy that this kid is not at greater risk than the normal examples you site. I am well aware of the normal situations. This is not normal.

And enforcing the 'correct' and acceptable gender identity onto the child would make him normal? If he's this insistent on his identity it will show in a myriad of ways. The way he walks the way he talks, the children he chooses to play with, the games he chooses to play. If he is identifying himself as female he will act female regardless of the clothes he wears or the toilet he uses. Kids pick up on that and are just as likely to bully him for it if he's wearing trousers as they if he's wearing a dress.

No doubt. But I would not condone it. Someone is going to pay dearly if anything happens to this child because of the desire to let it dress and act as it pleases. Political correctness gone wild.

I was in line at the grocery store the other day and the woman in front of me was explaining that the razors she was buying were for her 10yo daughter - because the kids at school gave her such a hard time because of the dark hair on her legs and arms, and her daughter was so distraught about it, mom decided to shave them.
Between the psychological damage that kids cause each other and the shootings that result, I really wonder how "normal" it is to have large populations of the same age kids crammed together each day with not much to do other than terrorize each other... :headshake

Anyway, there was a tranny at my kids old school. H/she was in HS, but the school was set up so that all the kids were together a lot thruout the day. My kids understood that sometimes a big guy named Amy liked to wear dresses and that was pretty much the end of it. No big deal at all. (my daughter had a lot more questions about arm shaving than boys in dresses) I don't understand why this kid needs a private bathroom anymore than any other kid though - but if that's what it takes for a school to get them, then more power to her/him.

I very seriously doubt that a 2nd grader is that self-aware. Kids act these things out. They want to be called a different name or want to be a different species, or inanimate objects. I have a friend who's child would ONLY respond to the name "Maxipad" for over a year. It was one of the funniest things I have ever seen. My little boy ran around for awhile saying he was a little girl and not a boy. We didn't feel the need to run with it or away from it. HE IS JUST A LITTLE KID! My niece wanted to be a dog for several years. Actually cried about it on several occations. They do and say all kinds of crazy things. If I had to guess, this little kids has some crazy, way, way, way left of center parents who figure he must be right and ran with it. Encouraging him to go with it. I may completely wrong here, but I don't think so.

I still need more information.

I'm assuming that the child is in therapy and the therapist agrees with this decision.

Does the school require uniforms? I remember HS vaguely and I don't remember dresses except at the prom, cheerleaders and yearbook photo day. Maybe the child will just wear womens' jeans and tops?

Where's Maggie just when we need a more informed opinion?

Brian

lol

I agree with you. A second grader dosn't have the cognitive ability to know WHY they are saying or feeling a certain way. It's good to let them grow into whatever they are going to be or want to do.

I know my next example is simplistic but we don't let kids draw on themselves,We make them wait for tatoos,piercings ect. Why not wait for gender and name changes too. * shrug*
Just my thoughts. :2cents:

We don't let them get tattoos, but it's hard to stop them drawing on themselves using readily available washable markers -and is it really worth the fight to stop them when they are determined to do so?

Same here.

He just wants to "cross dress" and use a different name. he can always reverse the choice. No permanent changes (snip) are being made here.

I can't stand anyone who says, "What will I say to my kids about...."

Who gives a shit about what you say to your fucking kids? Your comfort in talking to your kids is less important than someone else's freedom to express themselves or be themselves.

And yes, they don't necessarily know WHY they want what they want, but they know how much they want it.

Does anyone stop a determined "tom boy" these days? Why should it be any different in the reverse?

Further thought makes me wonder about the bathroom thing and how much exaggeration is going on. Round here, all elementary classrooms have a single unisex tiolet attached to each classroom. Even this would be a non-issue. But that said, apparently there are unisex toilets available and if that makes the kid happy and ready to learn and causes no-one else harm.....

OMFG I agree with radar (well actually he agrees with me, but still....) :lol:

Yeah that image and thought crossed my mind but then I thought only some of the moms will know.;)

Kids will be drawing on things until the end of time and if it were a thing easily conquered the kind crayola people would never have made washable markers.

my almost 12 year old daughter, in 3rd grade, was sure she was supposed to have been a boy, but I think this was just tomboy behavior, and the fact that she wasn't girly like the other girls at her school. She is in 6th grade now, and just this year, rejected all her board shorts and boys tshirts. Whew!!

A boy named Sue.

A song from the past.

There's a boy names Sasha on my son's soccer team. He has long blonde hair. Most people assume he's a girl. He doesn't care. He corrects them and moves on. He plays hockey and roughhouses with the rest, but he's not overly aggressive. Nor is he particularly "girly". he's just a kid. A nice kid. A well adjusted, well balanced kid. I wonder how he'd be if his parents had forced a short haircut onto him and drilled him in "the differences between girl and boy behaviours". It's time to discard these gender stereotypes.

Sasha doesn't wear dresses and tell people he's a girl.

Did Sue?

No, but he had to learn to fight.

Which is precisely why it's silly for him (or his parents, or his teachers, or whoever) to make such an effort to switch to an overbearingly "female" stereotype. Better to say "Being a man doesn't have to mean X" than "No, no, Y means being female so obviously I am a woman."

..as long as that freedom of expression is not harmful ... to others. I (strike me now) agree with radar too. :greenface

So the school and staff giving special treatment to one kid doesn't infringe on the rights of others?

That's how I read it. What a load of crap.

Which special treatment infringes which rights?

Agreed! I still have a hard time believing parents are "uncomfortable" about teaching their kids about sex.
Would they feel more comfortable dropping a note in the kids coffin when he/she dies from AIDS?

And just to point out, being transgendered does not mean someone feels the need to ACT like the other gender. They know, and feel like, they ARE the other gender. So telling the kids to just dress like they have been even though it's not what they need to feel right within themselves is just a load of un-informed crap.

I'm with Sheldon on this one. If this child genuinely feels deep down that s/he is female, then telling him/her to conform to masculinity is a dangerous thing, psychologically. What do you tell the child? That you know they feel (know) that they're a girl, but they're wrong? That every fibre of their being is wrong? That their essential sense of self is wrong? Or worse, that they may be right but that this is something they should hide? That they should be wary of letting people see this essential truth about themself?

Christ what a psychological minefield. I admire the parents. It cannot be an easy thing to go with the flow, knowing the potential for bullying and extreme reactions. But, frankly, I suspect this kid will be well supported by the parents and from the sound of it the school too.

Man this article is big after only one day, I wish I had saw it yesterday.

I don't really know how to feel about this. This is something I've never experienced in school or heard about on the news. The thing about unisex bathrooms though....in my honest opinion that is just weird and well, unnecessary. I feel a person can be whatever gender their mind tells them, but biologically the sex they are should determine where they use the bathroom in grade school. I'd raise an eye if I saw "Dani" the "Tranny" (excuse my language) using the child urinal next to me with a skirt and leggings but I bet the little girls would be even more shocked to see Dani coming out of one of the stalls to wash his hands. Physical features are pretty evident to the sex of children at mid elementary school age.

It's very bold of the parents to encourage transgender dressing in public elementary school. Maybe, too bold? Consider home school? Aww, shucks I really don't know.

All the bathrooms in my house are unisex.

Your house is not a public institution, though.

A lot of public institutions have unisex handicapped bathrooms.

Meh. Transgender doesn't qualify for a handicap sticker. Listen I'm not that defensive about it but to my personal bias, unisex bathrooms in public institutions such as grade school just don't make sense. Especially if the school is personally catering for one transgendered boy/girl.

I don't think there's enough information to say the child is getting special treatment. From what I read in the article, they've mentioned a unisex bathroom, but that could very well be available to all students.

What rights are being infringed upon?

I didn't say it did. I was just saying that unisex bathrooms aren't all that wierd in public institutions.

Fresh, unisex bathrooms are not multiple-stall. It's just a small room with a sink and a toilet that anyone can use. In this case, they already existed in the school--what the school is actually saying is, rather than decide whether you should share a bathroom with the boys or the girls, you will need to go down the hall to use the bathroom by yourself.

Certainly you aren't naive enough to think this kid isn't going to have the teachers walking on eggs. Just trying to remember to never refer to him as him or her, and making sure none of the other kids insult him. You know he's going to get special attention that detracts from the time spent on other kids. Hell, they are already spending money to send out pamphlets to all the parents.

BS.

Letter home is no different (expense-wise) from the nits and strep ones. Teachers are already walking on eggs. They are afraid to hug crying children for fear of sexual abuse accusations. this is no biggie, comparatively.

It's not a letter it's packets of information, not a sheet you run off on the xerox.
All this bullshit because this little bastard won't wear pants? Fuck him, he needs a good swift kick in the ass

Perhaps the packets of information were donated by some agency or group to help this child. There's really no reference to what these 'packets' of information are. In fact, the word 'packet' can refer to a steam of images from a movie set even, as you no doubt know. I don't see what the problem is. Srsly. What's wrong with a school educating parents a little anyway? Aren't schools supposed to educate?

And perhaps they weren't. The little brat still needs a kick in the ass.

Hmmm....I think my kids need a man like Bruce around.

As an example of what NOT to be.

Bah, the kid may be queer, or just effeminate, or whatever, but third grade is too early to figure that out. Put on a pair of pants and get with the program.
He can make major lifestyle changes, on his own time, when it becomes important.

I'm not sure what the actual day-to-day impact of this would be. They're not teaching different curriculum to boys and girls, so, what's the difference which gender he wants to "identify" with?

I have a weird first name, many teachers asked me what I want to "go by" ...so calling people different things is already in place. No change there.

Schools already have a dress code, so shouldn't be any question there. Everybody wears the uniform. If you can get a doctor to diagnose you as needing to wear a different uniform for some medical reason, then that part would be a factor.

What else is there?

'nuff said.