Incest
 

I noticed a tagline down the bottom of the page under the tip jar and this is what it said:

Here the quote is illuminated slightly:

When I first saw this quote I figured there must be some logical explanation for the wording. Turns out I was wrong. Or rather, the logic used to support this claim is so devoid of compassion or understanding it's staggering.

Someone isn't sexist...

Although I will agree that the majority of abortions performed are not rape or incest victims, the pro-life cause is really hampered by idiots who make statements like this.

Their counter argument should be "a life is life, regardless of the means of conception" and not, essentially, the woman asked to be/wanted to be raped. If their logic is essentially this sexist in nature, it calls into question their cause and their true desire behind the cause.

Years ago (and I'm sure its still floating around) the pro-life side tried the approach that NOW and planned parenthood focused on African Americans, and were trying to eliminate the African American population, and therefore the African American community should unite under the pro-life banner to keep from being exterminated. That approach didn't win over anyone that I know of.

Like any group with a cause, it has normal people and nut cases. The media tend to focus in on the nut cases.

Well, if she ain't good enough fer her own family, she ain't good enough fer ours.

33% of pregnancies result in miscarriages. A life is a life, right?

1 in 3 women should be in jail for murder by that logic...

Following the logic trail... A life is a life, and 1/3 of pregnancies result in miscarriages. But what was the cause of miscarriage? Due to mother's negligence? Or other? Mostly, other. Therefore, no criminal charges.

If a driver slides on an icy road and hits a pedestrian and kills him/her, its not manslaughter. Unless the driver had been drinking or traveling at excessive speeds, than it depends on how good of a lawyer he gets. Might be manslaughter, might be nothing. If there was no ice, and the driver was drunk and speeding and killed the pedestrian, its murder. Unless its his doctors fault for prescibing the wrong meds or not prescribing meds or because his boss is a jerk.

Pregnant woman, fetus with severe abnormality, she miscarries. Not homicide. Same woman, same fetus, but she smokes and drinks while pregnant. What caused the abnormalities... but a case like this won't ever be tried even if we say 'a life is a life' - too hard to prove cause of abnormalities or intent to harm. Pregnant woman throws herself down a flight of stairs to kill fetus and miscarries... pro-choicers state it was because abortions weren't free of charge or not enough clinics nearby. Woman becomes poster girl for pro-choice movement, makes made-for-tv movie about her tragic life.

Man kills pregnant girlfriend, gets charged with her murder, and depending on the state, the murder of the fetus.

I just thank God I've never been in the position to have to make a difficult decision like many women face each day. I am truly blessed with my husband and son.

I was raised pro-life. I was raised by parents who participated in Operation Rescue. I participated in Operation Rescue before it became illegal for minors to participate (if minors participate now, parents go to jail). At nine years old I was the representative child for my birth year on the state capitol steps on the Roe v Wade anniversary protest. I know the pro-life side. I don't disagree with it, although for a while I defined myself as pro-life in my personal life but pro-choice for America (meaning I wouldn't do it but I wouldn't judge or stop anyone else from doing it). I'm pro-life, but its not a cause that I contribute to (time or money) nor a cause that I vote in line with. I have friends that have had abortions. It doesn't bother me - it wasn't my decision to make. I think idiots (to put it lightly) like the ones quoted do extreme harm for the cause and aren't worthy to have their words put on paper. I doubt Roe v Wade will ever be overturned. I think its a waste of time and money on both sides for late term abortion fight. Really, how many women run out at 8 months pregnant to have an abortion? Not many, and most will be because of extreme circumstances.

What is Operation Rescue? Do they actually adopt the babies?

Wish it were so, but babies have no problem being adopted anyway.

Operation Rescue are the militant anti abortionists. They've toned it down some what. Mostly because of new laws. They used to block entrances to abortion clinics, chain themselves to the doors, get in the face of everyone entering the clinic. Find out where the doctors live, go to their homes and protest there, put the doctors faces on posters with murderer written over the face. Horrible signs with aborted fetuses. "You're going to hell for aborting your baby" folks. Some of the true extremists (the ones that blow up abortion clinics) start out in Operation Rescue.

I should state most Operation Rescue offices have staff to counsel mothers in need and have relationships with organizations that help with adoption, or with the cost of having the baby. I forget the name of the organization where I lived, but there was a home for young single mothers-to-be (and just had baby) to live and be cared for in a safe environment.

My sister got kicked out of home at 16. She graduated high school, got pregnant, got dumped. Lived in the home for about a year while she got her life together. She thought about giving Samantha up for adoption but decided she just couldn't do that. Staff supported her with whatever decisoin she choose. Samantha's a crazy teenager today, but not as wild as my sister. Thank God!

That home sounds wonderful. Glad your sis found it and it worked out for her. :)

I said that to make a point but I am going to defend it the other way.

Most miscarriages happen because there is risk to the mother or the baby itself so the body will naturally abort the baby to avoid complications. You can make the argument that most abortions happen because the baby is an economic, mental, and physical risk to the woman and to prevent the consequences that come with that, abortion should be legal.

If you stick with the "a life is a life" argument, you have to consider miscarriages and you can not just hide behind the excuse of "accidental death" because the body purposely aborts it. Since the body will purposely abort the baby if it will cause physical harm to the mother, it is reasonable to abort the baby if it will cause economic or mental harm to the mother. In my opinion, to put one ahead of the other is very ignorant and hypocritical. To regulate whether a baby will actually cause harm to a mother is inefficient and a very big violation of privacy, so we would have to make all abortions legal.

I would argue that the body miscarries not because the fetus will cause harm to the mother, but because the fetus isn't viable. It is most likely severely deformed in one way or another. Economic harm can be mitigated by giving the child up for adoption, and mental duress can be addressed with therapy.

Abortions aren't legal because of economic or mental harm the pregnancy/baby might cause. Its because the Supreme Court decided laws against abortion were a violation of privacy. Nothing in there about harm to the mother.

Don't misread me. I'm not lobbying Congress to change the laws or sending my money to fanatical groups.

In some cases. In other cases it's to do with hormonal conditions within the woman's body creating an inhospitable envrionment, rather than a non viable foetus.

True. Or the uterus isn't strong enough and starts to detach.

My son had to be induced a month early because my blood pressure sky rocketed and my liver started to fail. Luckily he was born healthy with few complications, besides mom and dad not quite being ready.

I hope others find the help they need as well. At the time, my sister and I couldn't stand each other. I blamed her for our parents divorce - 'if she hadn't been a troubled teen, they would have worked out' mentality that was wrong of me to have. It wasn't her fault, and the divorce was decades in the making. I've regretted being so hard on her and not being there for her. But that was years ago, we were just stupid kids with no good role models for normal behavior. We're the best of friends today. Her daughter is half like her (the wild streak) and half like me (nose in a book). Its funny. At one point in time Samantha told me she thought I was her mother and I gave her to my sister to raise since we had so much in common and look a lot alike. lol.

Oh- Incest always involves a girl or (woman). Idiot. Stupid.

Golly, never heard of a male incest survivor? Fucking lame assholes everywhere! AAAaah!!!

Is it still a woman's fault if Uncle perp fiddles with a nephew?

According to the dickheads in the OP it'd probably be a womans fault because she didn't make herself available enough so that the old fart didn't have to play with little boys.

How can it apply to women, when it usually happens to children anyway?

You can tell I'm angry when I start saying words like fuck-tard.

Who did the studies on fear-based conception anyway?!?

lol! I'm a nut-bag...I know...But stuff like this makes me feel well-adjusted.

Incest happens among children most certainly, right up to and beyond the age of puberty which of course means female victims can become pregnant.

Personally I think the whole statement was a load of tripe, but then again I'm pro choice, so it's not really surprising.

The whole idea of incest is simply wrong although it happens a lot more than people realize so it's a big problem hiding behind a big door. People also need to remember that incest is not always something that happens between a parent and a child for example. It also happens between siblings etc. Does that make it less wrong?

I think the idea is that in the phrase "rape and incest", as commonly used in abortion talk, the incest that isn't also rape (statuatory or not) is voluntary.

For example, if you allow abortion in case of rape, but not incest, you would allow it for a case of incestual rape. And the reason the woman is singled out is because she's the one who would be getting the abortion.

I hate to defend the idea behind it, but there is a logical explanation for the wording.

Yep I get that HM, but it's still not just the womans problem/fault, although you have to assume that anyone committing a crime like incest or rape isn't going to care too much if the woman has an abortion or not.

Doesn't the "It's none of my business what two consenting adults do consentually in the bedroom" argument, as with Homosexuality, apply here?

Why no. It doesn't at all.

No connection whatsoever.

That's like comparing apples and butt-rape.

In fact, homosexuality doesn't even apply to that arguement anymore because it's no secret, and nothing to be ashamed of.

btw. Hi Beest

Cicero, you just made a pronouncement, not an argument. Why doesn't that argument apply to incest?

Oh is this a debate? I wasn't informed of the formal status of my response and the guidelines...
If you would like an answer to that and many other ridiculous statements a perp might ask: here are some resources. Ask them...Let's see what they say:



1-800-A WAY OUT

United States Missing Children Hotline:

1-800-235-3535

Youth Crisis Hotline:

1-800-448-4663

United States Elder Abuse Hotline:

1-866-363-4276

United States Child Abuse Hotline:

1-800-4-A-CHILD (1-800-422-4453)

Find a Therapist:

1-800-865-0686

(I thought I was quite clear when I said it was like apples vs. butt-rape but sometimes people aren't so bright)

Ask a professional.

Some of us less than brights would read "between consenting adults" to exclude chlidren, youth, child, and I suppose the elderly who could no longer make judgements on their own. There is no reason for you to get all off the nest about this, I wasn't defending any position or attac king you. I just wanted to hear your reasoning. Pass it off if you must, or just tell me to butt out, but you are very far wrong to imply who might be a perp. In fact the whole point Beest raised is is it wrong if it's between two consenting adults. Since you replied I assumed you had a take on it.

1, 2 and 4 don't apply. I think we hit 3 though. aka Discussion Board.

:p

Also Polygamy, by what logical argument is this illegal.

I think I'm derailing with that train of thought, the title of the thread is incest, but most of the posts are about abortion.

Well personally, the risk of a child being born with not enough chromosones etc is probably the main reason why I think it should be avoided. That being said, a lot of siblings do 'experiment' together. Particularly girl siblings. Probably no chance of pregnancy occuring in those sort of circumstances. Also, probably quite a turn on for most blokes. (you bunch of sickos!)

Hey that's why it doesn't apply...good job. Nice work. Kudos.
:rolleyes:


:)

Beest...I got ya. I'm glad you now know who Cicero was and what a forum is...Your copy/paste job was so great I might print it and wipe my ass with it...since you took the time to google and all.....

I say debate...you look up forum....:right:

Holy shit..I'm in trouble. Someone else here can copy and paste too.....

Welcome to the cellar guys...I've seen you guys in the hallways (pourbill and Beest)....I don't have to prove every statement that flies out of my mouth. Especially if I'm not talking to you yet in the first place. Don't come here and make demands of me.

:)

cic, you're being an idiot. please have a sex change, you're giving women a bad name. Alternatively "fit the fuck" in and defend your position logically. That you're wrong doesn't matter, but that you're hysterical and illogical is embarrassing.

It used to be, though. Some people still feel it is. So what is the difference again?

You seem to be unable to distinguish between consenting incest and rape/kiddy-fiddling incest. Do you have that problem with regualar sex too?

Wait, who are you calling a perp here? If there is mutual consent, who is the perp? Or are they both perps?

But they're all kiddy/granny fiddler help lines. What about the non-abuse incest. Or do you believe that isn't possible/doesn't happen?

you thought wrong. the only thing you've clarified is that either you're currently self medicating or you damn well should be.

OMG it's Drax and Shawnee's bastard offspring! :lol: :p

Can I have a 15 minute warning before the final tantrum? I'll need to pee and get supplies :corn: :guinness:

No tantrum here....
:)
Maybe I'm just not "hip to incest".

Have another beer...

And I'm still not going to be roped into a ridiculous arguement...so you should probably just go watch a movie.

Mmmm...self-medicating..now stop talking out of your bung-whole.

So maybe I'm wrong...does that make you happy?!? Get off my ass mod.

Ooh, pourbill Cicero has deigned to recognize us plebeians and give the benefit of her shining wit.

Fastest in the MIdWest, pardner

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...ingmonkey2.jpg

:p

1) I've never had to distinguish between those two? You?
2) What is your question about regular sex again...do have this right?

Sure, I was an asshole, but don't get all sloppy drunk and try to tear me a new one.....:right:

Every once in awhile I act like a complete jerk...It's part of getting to know me. (to the newbs) After my sex change I'll still be human.
:D

OMG you just totally pwned me there!

(I was never a mod, though -just an ageing goth...)

Every once in a while, I'll call you out on it. :)
Which n00bs?
human, yeah, but thankfully batting for the other team ;)

So..."You make me want to be a better man?"

:)

Oh, you've got mail.

thanks for the offer, but I have a better man, already.

(so do you)

When you come to blows, I could use one.

Sorry, i only do relatives

Good point, potential harm to a third, innocent, party.
But.... smoking and drinking while pregnant aren't actually illegal, but should be avoided.
I'm trying to think if someone has been charged for abuse of a minor for smoking/drinking while pregnant and causing abnormalities, i don't remember an instance, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. :rolleyes:

Just because someone has a low post count or recent 'account created' date doesn't necessarily make them a newb :headshake

I get a lot of forums 'passively'

I'll bet you do, Beest, I'll bet you do. :thumb:

Well my little attitude has been put in check. :D

My antics of shoving my foot in my mouth have made me realize, all of a sudden, that I'm actually up to my thigh.

Apologies Beest.
:o

Someone needs to mute me when I'm about to do something really stupid. Crap.

Eh bite me. You have a prob with Cic take it up with Cic. Would've been worth it had it been slightly humorous. Hardy har farqhuar.

Psst, Drax, you'll NEVER be forgiven for any past errors. EVAH EVAH EVAH.Teh queen hath spoken
:headshake

Yes, right here. It's the subject of the thread. Not all inbreeding is statutory rape.

HM...I was being nasty (and apologized)...leave it alone...
It wasn't an actual question.


I wish I could bury posts and put up a headstone.

Cic you're fine, fuggedaboud it. dig deep enough -we all have threads and posts we'd rather forget on here....

:bolt:


and beest and I hadn't exactly advertised that we were brother and sister...

:thumb: Shawnee

:eek:

Sooo, banana lady was your Mum.

Kissing Cousins Have More Kin.
 

SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN.

I've not read one thing in this thread but has anybody mentioned that Incest is Best? Coz that's the word on the street.

"I'm going steady and I french kiss."
"So? Everybody does that."
"Yeah, but Daddy says I'm the best at it."

Incest is best
Give your sister the test.


You mean like that?

I always heard it

Incest is best
Put your (insert relative here) to the test.

I didn't want to say it earlier because, you know, selective defensiveness and all.

I wonder if it's a nature or nurture thing that makes most of us say 'yuck' to the idea of playing silly buggers with our relatives.

Incest among animals is very common, so I would say that our reaction is learned.

I don't doubt there's a lot of truth in that. But it seems like a tendency to inbreed would be undesirable from an evolutionary standpoint... in the long run wouldn't those who went out and mixed up the gene pool win out? So I would think there is some biological basis to it.

A recent study (sorry, I don't have a link) found that, in areas where incest is common, people lived longer.

I'd love to see that... if for no other reason than to see which areas those are!