For the Longest Time...
 

(actually cross-posted from my Facebook cause i'm a loser like that)


You old farts dont really think about it but, it's really a LOT harder for a teenager, a high-schooler, to get any, whether 'any' means sex or love. You guys got it easy.

I remember High School. My HS girlfriend wanted to save herself for marraige (damned the luck). Joined the military, we broke up, she got knocked up (not by me).

Now I'm married and going on 26 years. I'm not one into "sharing" my personal life on a public forum. But, I will say things are rather "nice" at home.

Everybody thinks that they have it harder. I think it's probably about the same.

Since I don't know what TAS is, I can't tell you why it is or is not romantic. I'm an old fart!:blush:

So, you can actually type something besides "No." Who knew.


And being a 37 year old manicly depressed, physically challenged, chronicly anxious individual ain't that easy either.

I can't complain...I was part of a four year relationship all through highschool, I left him (for being a jerk) and a month later I was with my new boyfriend...we're 8 months and counting...and that's long-distance.

You are young (as I am), so maybe your fellow date-ees aren't mentally on the same path as you, and lemme tell you

THAT sucks.

If that's the case, the only thing you can do is wait it out. (I don't necessarily reccomend trying to date older folks, cause age doesn't always mean mentally mature) :)

The old farts have it hard too. It's the college kids who have it easy. Everyone's breaking free, figuring out who they are, feeling the pressure to have more involved (if not more permanent) relationships... Then a large number of them run off and get married, and everyone remaining finds themselves right back where you are now.

The lesson: don't hold back in your twenties, and don't be lazy about it. Hunt her down and woo her, wherever she ends up being.

At least you like cheese...

See, the difference is, you adults are free to pursue whatever you like, with no authority figure above you meddling, and furthermore the societal pressure is towards romance, rather than away from it like it is in high school.
Adults also have a lot fewer cliques, groups, rigidly defined social structures within their very limited pool of possibilities. Those also have a strong affect on the chances. Plus, being in an overseas high school I'm at an even greater disadvantage, because I can't really look for anybody outside the school, unless I wanna start cruising the Taipei European School...

Ibram, may I respectfully suggest that we old farts have more understanding of what being young was like, having been there, than you have understanding of being an old fart, having not been there yet.

if you haven't figured it out, dropping that into threads all sly like doesn't make us care more. be nice. then we care. you digging at ibram doesn't make you look cool, it's like the bully that picks on the younger kids. just knock it off.

Ibram, the thing is that at nearly every stage in your life you will be looking forward to the next one, "when it gets easier" or "i'll be free to", but ironically in the next breath you'll say things like, "it was so much easier when all i had to do was follow a few rules and chase uninterested skirts". Every stage has pros and cons. at this very moment, taking a snap shot of my life i can say that i'm living "the dream" at least how i pictured it when i was your age. but i catch myself thinking how nice it was when all i had to do was pass some tests, chase some skirts, and go to concerts. it's all about perspective.

I wasn't being sly, and I wasn't trying to make you care. I was simply show ing Ibram that he's luckier than me.

At 16, Ibram may feel that he has problems, but at least he doesn't have to deal with being handicapped.

Also, I wasn't trying to be a bully, but don't you think that answering my posts with nothing other than "No" multiple times is a bit toddlerish?

No

Don't you start with me.

sorry, i couldn't resist. that's the beauty of the cellar, we are all free to be dumbasses. just try not to be overly annoying about it. or something.

here's the thing, you've brought your disability into a couple of threads this week. it's not that i don't care... it's just that i don't care when it is dropped into a thread in such a way that it looks like it is meant to trump any weakness in your previous statement.

Take LJ for example. We all know he is seriously mentally challenged, and we respect and care for him because he doesn't make a point of telling us he is handicapped, he just lets us figure it out by reading his normal posts. Get the difference?

What? LJ isn't mentally challenged? and all this time I thought jinx was a saint for... aw, damn.*worldview crashes*

My cock is mentally challenged.

and if lookout drew a brownish purple line on his head from crown to brow, .....from behind he'd look like a penis with ears.

Ibram, if you think people stop meddling in your life when you reach your majority, I'm telling you that's simply not true.

And have a think about this. What about all the people out there who think they've got the right one, have a couple of kids and then whamo! It's all over. How hard do you think it is to find someone to take on you AND the kids you had with someone else?

Trust me, no matter what stage of life you're at, you'll face challenges in meeting the right person who happens to be traveling in the same direction as you.

I'm not even talking about finding someone to settle down with, i'm talking about someone to have dinner with, see movies with, screw around with, and just hang out with.
Adults have a much wider range of options on that front, I'm certain. Even though some don't, its still easier for adults to find both someone to date casually or someone to hook up with.

I know I don't have the benefit of being there to be able to see for myself but i'm sure that the options are indeed wider for someone who doesnt have to worry about mommy and daddy, or whatever.

No, they're not. :)

Whatever, dear. That wasn't even my point to begin with, i dont think. My point was mostly just bitching about not havin' anybody, and being romantically starved, and needing some kind of excitement in my life.

though note that every single one of you are getting more than I am, or at least have gotten more than I have. Case closed!

Well when I was your age I wasn't getting any. I had boyfriends during high school etc, but nothing much too serious really (although I thought at the time they were very serious). Hindsight is 20 20 vision though.

You're only 16. What's the big hurry anyway? You'll have plenty of time to bemoan the fact that you're not getting any when you're old and withered like the rest of us.

Maybe you should join a club? ;)

Adults may not have the same sort of authority figures micromanaging us, but trust me, the responsibilities that that we (apparently) willingly shoulder make me wish to fuck that I *was* 17 again. At that age, I had more sex, more money, more free time (well, okay - now that my marriage is open, I'm having more sex now, but barely) and more self-determination about who I was and what I was doing than I've seen since I became a husband and a parent.

Growing up provides a certain small amount of a very narrow range of freedoms, but the responsibilities and stress that come with it are waaaayyyy the hell out of proportion for what you get in the bargain. And if you think its tough to have a relationship *now*, at your tender age, wait until you're on the second open marriage stage of your second marriage, and you're trying to figure out how involved you want to get with a very hot alternative partner who is trying to figure out if they want to leave *their* second spouse just because you are a lot easier and more providing of escapist pleasures and you remind them of how much easier and more fun it is to not have those burdens hanging over you.

I'm tellin' ya, man...suck it up and enjoy your youth. It only gets weirder from there.

.Ok, maybe I could have been more subtle about it, but I was just making a point to Ibram.

Seem you're the only one who's making a big deal about this. If you let it go, I will.

:lol: do whut?

You were making no such point, you were bitching about your problems in my bitching thread. I thought you were the one that believed in that thread ownership crap anyway?

Mm, I think I'm allowed to snap at him just this once. I've done an admirable job thus far haven't i? If it was merc tryin' to get a rise out of me I'd have already retaliated for sure. Pretty sad, really, that I care more about merc...

ok, pity party bitch fest ends now. Ibram - life is good my friend, let it unravel one day at a time and enjoy each day for what it is. even if it is complete shit, it's only 24 hours out of the thousands you have ahead of you.

drax. i'm done bustin your balls.

Ibram - any chance that your parents would let you get a job? Or is that not possible since you're not technically a citizen? I met several long-term boyfriends at work over the years. If the people at school suck, you've got to branch out. And hey, why not the Taipei European school? European girls are totally hot for the mildly angsty androgynous thing. :)

Hey hey hey, I'm not unhappy, just bitching. There's a difference! I really am a pretty damn happy kid.

CF - I'm not allowed to work, legally, here, except at AIT (our not-technically-an-embassy) -- which i am doing this winter break -- and TES kids are mostly stuck-up, rude, and our two schools are often pretty rival-like. And there's really very little contact between the schools, i really wouldnt even know where to begin trying to get in with any of them.

ah, but see that is the key Ibram - rival schools. don't you kids watch any movies from the '80's anymore?

you need to find a way to befriend a good girl from that school, like right now. friend, not girlfriend, not fuckbuddy. why? 1) because if all else fails you will have at least one new friend, 2) because if you are a good guy and you are a good friend to her, she will inevitably introduce you to her circle of friends from that school. then you have the chance to be the slightly eccentric, but genuine, american guy. dude rival school hookups rule. most of the girls will cautiously watch you while they try to figure out if you're just another guy looking for a shag. don't take the low lying fruit, be a good guy. within a month or two the guys from that school will be split into two camps, both work in your favor: 1) dumbass knuckledraggers who will look down on you and call you "fag". their girls may laugh at first but when they see you react with relaxed maturity, they will think again and you will be moved into the 'intriguing" column, 2) the other camp will recognize your most excellent character and welcome you in as a friend and you will get to interact with them and their girlfriends. their girlfriends have girlfriends.

live life man, you're young and it is in the palm of your hand. you get to be the eccentric american if you want it.

Not try to bust yer chops, but according to yer profile, yer younger than me. :p

yeah, and ib's still young enough to be my kid. my friend's daughter plays on our soccer team and he's 6 months younger than me.

l123, that would work great except, I have no way to make that initial friend. I can't even get to the TES facebook page! I have one friend at the school already (cause she got expelled from TAS), but she's... not the popular type, not the type who i should be looking at for your scenario.

I'll look into that though, cause you do have a point.
Maybe I'll even find a gay guy there! they are european after all...

Since I'm about the middle of the road age wise here, (I think,) at 24 let me drop my two cents.

Here's my secret to successful living. Do whatever you want, within reason.

A story to illustrate.

When I was about 19 or so I was a pretty shy kid and I used to mull around coffee shops and look towards all the arty chicks and think, "God, if only one of them would talk to me." After about two months of frequenting the place, reading sullenly and drinking enough coffee to kill a small buffalo, I gave up. I was pretty much expecting some sort of big break and hoping that some sort of serendipity would set me right with a nice girl. Life generally doesn't hand stuff like that out and I needed an attention getter, so this is what I did.

I live in a city fairly close to the country, so there are lots of farms and things around. A friend of mine raised goats. So, after selecting the cutest art chicka in the joint, I borrow my friends goat, put it on a leash and walk up to her. Obviously, she's pretty shocked.

"Hi, my name is Robert and I've been wanting to talk to you for weeks but I couldn't think of how to start a conversation. So, I brought this conversation piece to help me."

We were together for about 3 years after that. Sometimes romance is silly and not what you think it is and sometimes when it isn't around, you have to create it.

Depends where you live Ibby. Lot of adults simply don't have access to that kind of casual meeting scenario. This is particularly the case in big cities. Think about it: unless you are out with some friends, what do you look like if you go to a bar alone? People go out in pairs and groups, to be single and out and about alone is simply not societally acceptable in many places, and even where it is it is a dangerous thing to do, particularly if you're a woman. The reason speed dating, and net dating etc is such a big thing is because there are ever growing numbers of single adults who simply don't have the opportunity to meet other single adults unless it's in a work setting.

I'm good at the whole attention getter thing.
I'm bad at the whole actually approaching girls.

Right after the musical, actually, i was pretty proud of myself... At the afterparty, I told my downstairs neighbor that i had a crush on her, and that was only accomplished with a combination of caffeine, after-show adrenaline, and narcotics. It, as I expected, went nowhere and is never going anywhere.

I'm really, really bad at approaching girls. At least, that way. I, like you... almost completely leave it in the hands of serendipity (thankyou mock, i love that word) and mostly just, sit and wait and do nothing.
Sigh. Anyone know where I can find a goat?

Okay well, if you can get attention, you can approach the dudes and the ladies. Here's the thing. Where love and is concerned, people let rationality fly out the window. This is a big, dumb mistake and I'm not sure why people do it.

Say there's this cute girl and you want to approach her. You know how to break the ice (since you're an attention getter), you know at least your first three sentences you're going to say (if not, give it a bit of thought), whatever. If you approach her, make nice and she still rejects you, she may have her reasons. We've all seen you so it isn't going to be that you're not attractive or anything like that, worst case scenario she's not looking for anything right at the moment or she's with someone. Here's what people don't seem to realize. If you approach her and make your intentions known that you find her attractive, like (variable) or something about her, it will make her day, if not her week or month.

Every 'unattainable' person that we're afraid to approach is just that, a person. They have feelings and they like to be complemented and feel that other people appreciate them, just like anyone else. You'll find out that that most people who seem unapproachable or stand off-ish are that way BECAUSE people are too afraid to talk to them. I couldn't tell you how many really wonderful people I've met just by taking a shot in the dark.

Really though, even with all that said if your advances end in rejection, you're still making people feel good about themselves and doling out self esteem by the fistful. Doing good things comes back to you. Keep trying and eventually you will surprise yourself.

Here's what I'm getting from this thread:

Life can be good or bad.
Love can be good or bad.
Love may or may not be there.

Everyone else is better off than everyone else.

Everyone else is worse off than everyone else.

That about sum it up?

Pretty much. I think I read somewhere once that if you added together all the mass in the universe and combined it with all the forces working against the mass, (i.e energy and the like) you'd be left with nothing.

So yeah, all of the above listed is both true and false. :3eye:

Love is not limited to the elderly, it arrives spontaneously to anyone no matter their age, location or issue. Love cannot be controlled.

Just because more mature people seem like the stereotypical "people who fall in love" does not make it more true than the two high school sweet hearts who elope.

It is yourself who makes it challenging to find love, which is actually the easiest part of courtship, because love itself is the most challenging thing you will ever discover.

if that is what floats your boat, go for it, i used the traditional man/woman as an example.

ok, so you know one person at that school but she's not popular. so? do you actually LIKE the popular people? most of them when will be sweeping up popcorn at the theatre when you are on the screen in a few years, quit worrying about them. people are people. in fact, if you make the conscious decision to NOT TRY to get in with the in crowd, you will actually be given access faster anyway. the in crowd is used to everyone trying to get in with them. people who don't do what you expect are intriguing. but back to the first goal: Be a friend. you have a female friend from that school already. Unless she is bad news or generally unhealthy for you to be around, be the best friend to her that you can possibly be. don't be desperate and use her to "get in" - she'll know the difference. be a friend. enjoy her company. if nothing else pans out you will have a person to enjoy your time with.

i will make you one promise - the harder you try to get into the in crowd, the harder it will be to get in. people (women especially) smell fear, desperation, and loneliness and it is a huge turn off. you will see this when you are older at the bars. the stud who shows up looking to get laid goes home alone, while the average guy who is relaxed and friendly has more attention than he knows what to do with. romance is a commodity and the more you "need" it, the harder it is to come by. be a friend. the rest will fall into place.

Right on.

Oh yeah!
I can't really think of a good contribution so I will promote the already good contributions.

i definitely have no desire to be part of the in crowd. its simply that, if someone is popular, relatively speaking, then they will be able to introduce me to more people than someone with, say, very very few friends... which is the boat the friend in question is in.

I think that's true. But the next part is that you need to be paying attention and open to it when it comes.

sooo, mockingbird's advice is, you gotta go out there and just jump in, hope for the best, can't hurt to be as proactive about it as possible... and l123's is, don't look for it, just wait for it to come to you?
(yeah, i know i'm oversimplifying but...)

Yeah uh, sorry l123, but I think i'm with mockingbird on this... i've tried the waiting and just being a friend, just waiting for something to happen. It's time to try to make something happen.

true. but the popular crowd is typically full of clones who are fearful of losing their spot in the crowd. trust me, the popular ones are walking through life terrified of being pushed out right now. the ones who have fewer friends, generally have more "real" friends, but more importantly many "acquaintances". remember, you aren't looking for a wife (or husband), you are looking for human interaction. i think i really hear you saying you are looking for a place where you feel like you belong.

because the clones are afraid of making a tragic misstep and losing cool points and being pushed to the back of the pack most of them won't take a chance on the unknown (you). the other group may not be as popular but they'll take a chance on people. be a friend. if you decide you really don't like that person, walk away. if they are likeable, stick around - you will meet other people just by being a friend to a person who is in a different orbit than yourself. some you'll like, some you won't. be a friend to those you like. be courteous to those you don't.

any of the popular clones that have even the slightest grasp of their own identity will have a friend or two that doesn't fit with the clones. you'll meet the popular kids just by being around the people you actually like and who are willing to give you a chance.

one of three things will happen: 1) you will make some very good friends in the "out" crowd and enjoy life, 2) you'll start their but move into the popular crowd and enjoy life, 3) you'll be given the opportunity to see the inner dynamic of the popular crowd and realize you don't like it, so you'll focus more on your "out" crowd... making you even more desireable to the clones and you will enjoy life.

it doesn't matter. all three end with the same thing - you enjoy interaction with other people.

NO! i'm saying go make it happen! don't sit around and wait for people to interact with you - go find someone to interact with. the rest will progress fairly naturally. you've got to take the initiative.

Ibby, my advice is build friendships for now. There's time enough for love (as heinlein would put it :P).

I'll add to that, too. In high school I was aware of crowds and cliques, but I didn't join in with it. I ignored it and painted pictures all day, that was what I wanted to do anyway. When people liked it, awesome, when they didn't, awesome. I liked what I did and I didn't care what crowd anyone was from.

As a result, everyone just called me the 'art kid' and I wasn't lumped in with anyone -- everyone talked to me 'cause I would talk to everyone else. Break out of the cliquey mold stuff, Ibram -- become your own clique. BE THE RULING BODY OF YOURSELF AND ET CETERA

TOO MUCH COFFEE

AUGH

I just wanted to say, Mockingbird's goat strategy is bloody brilliant. She almost has to talk with you, and it'll make her laugh which is always a huge bonus. Especially if she is an arty/coffee-shop girl, she'll be impressed by your surrealist grove. Why didn't I think of that when I was younger?
Cute puppies are also great for this, since they will often run over and initiate the friendship for you.

Added thought ... take a female goat. As a back up, just in case, you know.
Damn, was that out loud?

I feel it makes you feel any better I didn't have any good relationships in high school. Focus on other things, you will be ahead of the rest when you get out of high school.

But, don't get the impression that you will be getting laid three times a week in college either, it just doesn't work like that.

*pffft* 3 times a week? slacker.:D

It is so true. And if you end up working in a same gender environment (and that's not your preference) you will dream about your school and college days in a rose-tinted haze, believe me.

I am coming round to the idea that we all have our best years ahead of us, but you more than most. You haven't found your peer group in high school? Hello college! In fact the only problem will be leaving with the same sense of uniqueness and put-upon genius you have now.

Cheer up, one way or another things will work out even if you do nothing but wait.

Maybe the young folks ought to not dangle / flirt / tease the older folks and that problem will not happen. Maturity is a factor on both sides. Thus the term "prick tease".

Ugh I HATED high school, and was one of the nerdy people, but the good thing to come out of all that is that I still have several good friends who were fellow nerds, plus I don't really give a rat's ass what anyone that I don't care about thinks of me.

Just go out and go for it Ibram, and try to remember, that whatever happens now, the person you get with now is HIGHLY unlikely to be the one you are with 10 years from now

Way ahead of you buddy, that's already where I'm at. I'm friends with rad people from whatever social group, already, and not part of any group. I've never really bought into the whole clique thing.

Thats the way to do things, I did it as well in high school. I never had a certain group but I could get along with basically everyone in my school.

I dunno, I bet if you could find a "people who want to have sex with each other" clique, you'd be all over that. :)

That's definitely true... touche, clodfobble

Ain't that the truth. Well said.

Say what? Are you talking about Lookout and Drax? 'Cause I'm not entirely sure Lookout would enjoy being called a prick-tease (didn't know anyone still used that term), and I have no wish to speculate about whether Drax would enjoy it or not :eek:

:lol: