Say goodbye to new TV...
 

It hasn't been reported on a whole lot, because everyone kept hoping beyond hope that it wouldn't come to this... but the Writers Guild of America has been in contract renegotiations for over three months now, and have been threatening a strike. Last night was the deadline. Last-minute support from the Teamsters looked like it might avert the crisis, but then this comment was left on this industry messageboard:

The main issue is over whether downloadable internet content should be considered the same thing as DVD sales, and whether the old calculation of writer royalties on DVD sales is fair anymore to begin with. The positions of both sides can be read at length at the above link. A strike would affect new television content for both network and cable. Get ready for reruns...

Yeah! I heard about this yesterday, read it in the Daily Illini.

So.....there's no more Desperate Housewives? Or America's Next Top Model (c'mon that's riggggged)?
Wait....that means there's no....more....Scrubs?
:eek:

No more Tonight Show monologue/jokes.

the only new show that has really caught my attention is Life with Damian Lewis. it is the only thing i tivo besides my premiership games.

can they still recycle old plot lines and make remakes of remakes?

The talk show hosts could write their own jokes and monologues? Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

i think if push comes to shove letterman, leno, o'brian, and stewart will be just fine. i know they each have writers, but each of their shows are geared around their own ideas of humor and style. i'm pretty sure they could wing it for awhile.

J. Michael Straczynski, of Babylon 5, has been discussing it on usenet.

I agree, some better than others. I'd be least worried about Craig Ferguson because I think he does his own stuff anyway. Leno, scares me, but I just don't think he's a natural at the job.

I have to wonder about that. Do they have to abide by the rules themselves? Many of them write some of their own material. If they write their own stuff, are they members of the Guild too? Do they have to abide by the same rules?

Good question. Hadn't thought of that. Anyone know?

i don't know but i would think there comes a point when the classification switches from poor oppressed "worker bee", to heavy handed oppressive "the man". like when it is there name in the show, or something.

I found an article that said most late night shows would go on hiatus. The "stars" are also members of the WGA, and most feel they need to show support to their writers. Though they might not be legally bound to the strike, it would be akin to crossing the picket line at GM.

It's an unclear area. On the one hand, yes, all of the late-night stars are considered "writers" for their shows, and do belong to the WGA. But there are exceptions to the strike rules: they would also likely be considered "showrunners," who are personally not allowed to strike. It would be up to their own consciences (and how lucky they feel about getting sued by and/or kicked out of the Union) how much "content creation" they could do while striking as a writer but not striking as a showrunner. The typical semi-improvised interviews almost certainly don't count, even though the questions are developed beforehand, but pretty much all other "headline" style bits would, and definitely any sketches.

An anonymous insider from NBC confirmed that Jay Leno and their other late-night shows would likely go into reruns. No word from CBS on Letterman. Stewart and Colbert do more of their own material than most, but Comedy Central has said they would likely go into reruns anyway, hinting that since the two of them are more recent stars with significant writing backgrounds, they would feel especially guilty about attempting to continue their shows.

Well, I guess Nick@Nite's not worried, all they've done is re-runs from night one.

I don't watch hardly anything live... if it ends up looking good I usually go back & watch it. So it won't affect me much directly.

But I shudder at the thought of ANYTHING that would encourage more reality TV. Please!!! Have mercy!!!

The shows I'm most wondering about are:

• Chuck
• Heroes
• Journeyman
• Eureka
• Bionic Woman
• Wizards Of Waverly Place
• Cory In The House
• The Suite Life Of Zack & Cody
• Hannah Montana
• Flash Gordon
• Battlestar Galactica's final season
• Stargate Atlantis
• Metalocalypse
• Family Guy

And I was hoping for some more Bullshit.

The "Heroes Origins" hiatus miniseries has been put on hold.

Too bad. I thought it was a cool experiment in eliminating rerun hell.

AMEN!

During the 2004-5 NHL hockey lockout, ESPN looked for other things to broadcast. They decided to show the World Series of Poker. Thus began a whole new form of entertainment and a whole new industry.

People found other things to be interested in. Hockey is still trying to recover. ESPN gave up its hockey contract and the NHL is now broadast on Versus. What? I don't even know if i GET Versus.

What will replace written TV? If this lasts any length of time, the people will find alternatives. The last time the writers went on strike there was no public Internet. Hmmm.

No big loss IMHO.

Well, Clod gave me the impression that the strike started 8 days ago, but according to Conan, it will start Monday unless (as Conan hopes) its resolved over the weekend.

*shrug* I don't know how. I said the writers' deadline for negotiations was Oct. 31st, and it was.

Cuz you started this thread on the 1st, and since you gave no indication that the strike didn't start that day, I just figured that it started right after the deadline you mentioned.

Which was... two days ago. :eyebrow:

<SIGH> Yer right. I just reviewed the date. I've just had so much going on lately, I got FUBAR, and somehow my brain went back in time. :drunk: :banghead:

Shawnee, you wouldn't say that if you heard him doing his own material. Jay Leno used to do stand-up and was very good at it. The Tonight Show gig was a miracle that catapulted him to fame.

I've seen him do his own jokes and he's funnier than me!

Brian

Leno still lives on the money he makes doing standup, around the country, much of the year. I think his cars get most of the TV money.

Good thing I have a lot of DVDs I haven't broken the plastic on yet ...

I remember surviving the last writers' and actors' strike. And that was before "reality TV" AND the internet.

I don't watch any of the nighttime talk guys anyway. Actually, because of my bizarre schedule, I don't watch much broadcast TV at all. I once would have been devastated by something like this, but that was a whole other lifetime ago.

An explanation of the exact dispute, from the Writers' Guild point of view:

Now if the asshats who do the commercials would just join.

For me it's...

• Heroes
• House
• Family Guy
• Biggest Loser
• Bionic Woman
• Are you smarter than a 5th grader
• Deal or No Deal

I believe the dispute is over digital media over the internet. The writers were screwed by the studios on DVD sales. They want residuals for internet viewings of material they wrote for, and in my opinion they are way out of line.

I don't like the idea of residuals to begin with. If I hire you to do something for me and I pay you, why should I pay you every time I use it to make money? It's like a shovel maker wanting a dollar every time someone digs a hole with their shovel.

If I risk my money to hire people to write a program for me. Should I be forced to pay them money for each copy that sells? I already paid them to come in everyday and write the program for a year or two. I shelled out that money with no guarantee that I would get any money back.

The same is true of tv shows. These people risk millions of dollars on a product that is unlikely to make any money for them. Most shows tank. If their investment pays off, why should they be forced to pay someone for work they did years ago that they were already paid for when the show wasn't making any money?

Should I have to send money to Toyota ever ytime I drive my car, even though I've already paid for the car?

These are reality/game shows. They don't have writers. It's also very likely that whoever comes up with the questions for "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader" is considered more of a researcher and is not part of the Writers' Guild.

But I am bitter about you people with your, "Oh, I'm afraid that sometime in the Spring episodes of my favorite shows might be delayed..." I have already gone three nights without The Colbert Report. And the topical nature of the show guarantees that--unlike dramas that have a preset plot line over a season--I will never get those episodes back. :mecry:

No, it's like a shovel inventor wanting money every time someone sells their shovel. Or an author wanting money for each copy of their book that is sold.

That makes no sense. In fact I'd wager that producers would prefer to increase residuals payments and eliminate the initial wage they pay. Then they would only be paying the writers if the shows were a hit. It would eliminate some of the risk for the producers. "I'll only pay you if the show is a hit, but I will pay you handsomely."

Seems to me this hybrid system gives the writers a little stability up front and a lot of incentive to produce a good show for a big payoff down the line. If they were to eliminate the residuals, then the initial writer's wage would likely go up, and so would the risk to the producers.

Absolutely. Every time a show fails, all the writers lose their jobs. 43% of writers are out of work at any given time. During those times they are living off the residuals of their previous successes. If there were no residuals, you would have to pay writers a lot more to ensure they made it through the down times and didn't decide to take a guaranteed salary in a cubicle somewhere instead.

Most of TV is so very unoriginal, how much is a nice long stretch of reruns really matter?

I agree with that. A monkey could write better than most sitcom writers.

If the writers are paid for writing a script, that should be the end of the money they get. If I own a business and pay you to write a computer program for me, I don't owe you money every time I use it. I also don't owe you money if I choose to sell that program and make billions of dollars. I already paid for it. Your work was done. Nothing entitles you to be paid over and over for the work you did one time.

Baloney. It depends ENTIRELY upon the deal you strike at the outset. Owning a business is irrelevant.

It *could* wind up the way you describe, it *could*, just as easily, wind up differently. Are you entirely ignorant of the concept of licensing, or are you ignoring it to make your absolutist statements appear less absurd?

And sometimes it does work out that way. But those types of writers make a lot more for their one-time work than a typical writing contract that includes residuals. Residuals in fact ensure that a producer doesn't have to pay the writer as much if the show flops.

Some book authors sell their works outright to the publishing company as well. But most publishers prefer a residuals scheme in case the book turns out to be a failure. It's the same situation, because most shows have to have several episodes created before any producer or network picks them up. Producers are not hiring laborers, they are purchasing a product from the writers, and they know exactly what they are buying beforehand.

If you support the writers (which you should, in case you haven't been paying attention,) there's an organized effort to make your voice heard for a swift return to the negotiation tables at www.fans4writers.com. They cover everything from donating food to the people on the picket lines to printable postcard templates to mail to the AMPTP and/or major advertisers.

I should support the writers? I must have missed that part of this thread. Why would I support people who are trying to basically commit strong arm robbery on the studios by demanding that they get something they aren't owed and haven't earned? Why should I support a bunch of cry babies who want to get paid a thousand times for a job they did once and were already paid for. Why would I want to support any union when it unions drive up prices, close down businesses, and chase jobs out of America?

I hope every one of those writers is replaced with non-union writers who appreciate having a decent job with decent pay and don't want to bully others around.

When you bother to address the points in posts 36-38 and 41-42, maybe someone will care what you think.

No, it's like a business hiring a contractor to create a shovel and paying him regardless of whether or not they will be successful in selling that shovel. After the business has paid him every penny of what he has earned while working for them, he leaves he wants money for every shovel sold and now he is fighting to get more money for every hole dug using one of those shovels.

The writers are paid handsomely initially for their script. They are paid far more than most other writers, especially considering the lack of talent in Hollywood. They are paid handsomely regardless of whether or not the show succeeds. It's not a hybrid system. They are paid fairly for the script they were hired to write. Now they want more money above and beyond what they have actually earned.

Should every computer consultant be paid double what they are worth because they might be unemployed later? Should they get a check in the mail time someone logs onto a computer network they built even though they were already paid very well to build it? As a business owner, that makes no sense. If they were better writers, they might have less failed shows and find themselves unemployed less.

Writers aren't licensing their scripts to the studios. They are SELLING their scripts. In fact staff writers are paid regardless of whether the scripts they are writing are very good. When the studio buys the script, they own it.

If I buy a painting, should I send a check to the artist every time I look at it? Of course not. Could I make a deal like that? I could, but I'd be an idiot to do that and I shouldn't be forced or coerced into doing it by a bunch of painters picketing outside my house.

Any number of contracts can be written up, but does it make sense for someone to make a stupid deal like that? Obviously not. Writers are paid VERY WELL for their work before a single copy of their work is sold either to television studios to advertise over, or to book publishing companies. In many cases they are paid up front before they write a single word.

The studios are gambling on the talent of the writers and paying them handsomely up front. They aren't making residual deals in case the show is a flop. Every single producer in Hollywood would jump at the chance to pay the writer once up front and never give them a cut of residual income.

Most of those weren't valid points other than the fact that people can write any contract they want. I responded to them though.

Happy?

While slightly more useful than your initial post, I can't say your responses were particularly enjoyable, no. I understand how you routinely debate with people, however, so I know that discussing it with you is completely pointless. I will address a few points, and then I'm done talking about it with you.

Feel free to cite your salary sources at any time.

Writers are not paid well. From here: "According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median annual salary of a scriptwriter is $44,350." (Keep in mind that these are Los Angeles and New York salaries.)

This is also completely false. A pilot is created before the show is bought, that is how it's done. Often several more episodes are required before the producer is willing to commit. Only in extremely rare cases with famous, well-established writers are contracts drawn up based on pitch ideas alone.

You're bringing in lots of irrelevant industries, and avoiding the most pertinent one: should the author of a novel be expected to sell their book outright to the publishers? Hint--novel authors do not actually receive any outright purchase price for their books; the money they receive up front is called an "advance," and is taken out of the first chunk of royalty revenue they are owed from the first batch of sales. If by some gross error on the estimating skills of the publisher, the book does not sell even enough copies to cover the advance, the book author has to give back the difference.

But to answer your questions: If a company expects there to be full-time computer consultants available for hire when they need them, then they must expect to pay them what their time is worth, including the downtime during which they are unable to do other jobs because they are remaining available to be computer consultants. An industry can demand the salaries it requires to stay functioning as an industry, just as an individual business demands the prices it requires to be able to pay the rent and continue selling items at all.

Meanwhile, the painting analogy is completely off-base unless you are charging other people to view your copy of the painting. In which case, the painter will undoubtedly charge you much more money for it up front, because the painting is by definition worth more as a revenue stream.

There are in fact plenty of writers available who do not belong to the union. The producers are not in any way coerced into writing residual contracts with them, and yet they do. You may continue to insist on 'what obviously makes sense' and 'what producers really want' (and I'm certain you will,) but their actions speak louder than your words.

This is ironic, considering you were eager to jump in with a whole list of shows you are worried about missing new episodes of. The fact that several on your list will not even be affected by the strike just serves to highlight again the fact that you are completely uninformed about the situation. Like every other argument you get into here, your unwavering opinions are based entirely on your political ideals, and have nothing to do with the reality at hand.

"Lack Of Talent In Hollywood"... interesting as I'd think that Hollywood was the biggest magnet for writing talent in The World.

The biggest pool of writing talent can't come up with anything more original than remakes of crappy 70s tv shows?

The best writers don't write for television at all. They write novels.

As far as missing the shows I like goes, for every show that is good, there are 100 that suck hairy balls

Bollocks.

Log in as Terminator and tell us "how Terminator feels" about this.

I believe that ESPN covered WSOP since 1978. Not as a weekly program, for sure.

What is the shovel and what is the hole in your analogy? It looks to me like they have a contract to get paid a pittance for every shovel sold, with a promise to get back pay for all the past shovels that they were underpaid on when the shovel market matures, and now the company is saying that not only will they not get the back pay, but any future shovels won't even count as shovels, and the authors will get nothing.

And your argument is that, contracts be damned, they shouldn't have even gotten that pittance.

The shovel is the product someone was paid to design. They don't own the shovel factory. They don't own the design for the shovel. They were paid to design a shovel. Even assuming they do own the design for the shovel and license it to the company, they would be paid once for each shovel sold. Digging a hole is the use of the shovel.

It's unreasonable for the shovel designer to expect to be paid while designing the shovel, then paid again for each shovel sold, and again for each use of the shovel.

The writers are paid WELL to write the script, and they are paid residuals for each time it is aired on television, now they want to be paid each time someone looks at it on the internet. It's unreasonable.

Someone gets paid each time it's downloaded (from a legit site, at least). Why not the authors?

And why are television airings and DVDs shovels, while a download is a hole?