tazer crazy .....taze 'em if you got 'em!
 

So today, my family and I are in the car in Exton. Stopped at the light at Main Street Shopping Center, when this dark blue sedan comes barreling around the corner, and stops in our lane up ahead. A woman in 'casual?' police attire jumps out and goes racing around this van that has stopped because of her flashing lights. After the van gets out of the way, we can see, about 100 yrds away, a young male in shorts and no shirt talking to these swarming cops. there were probably 4 or 5 cops, 1 marked, and 2 unmarked cars...

it happened so quickly, .....I don't know what led up to it, but the shirtless guy appeared to point to the East, and all of the sudden, one of the cops sticks a tazer to his ribs, and lays him out. I saw the arc of blue light leap to him from where i was. he doubled over, and then was flat on his back on the grass by the side of the road. Then they leaped on him, the light turned green, and I had to drag race the guy next to me and get into his lane so i didn't get stuck ....with this shit going down in my lane as it was.... There did not appear to be any attempt to arrest him in the classical manner.

It seems to me that these cops are all getting tasers, and just cant fucking wait to use them. I was appalled, as was jinx....my kids are like, "what did they do to him?" And we had to try not to spew cop hate talk with the kids in the back seat.

THEN! we're on the treadmill at the gym, and there's a news story about equipping PARK RANGERS with tasers. WHAT the FUCKKKK! park rangers make $23,000 per year. you dont think they're a little bitter and pent up?

"litterbug!" ZAP! "<Messy Campsite>" ZAP ZAP!

I know some cops are actually good people that want to serve the public.....but these over-tasing tase-aholics with the tasers strapped to their heads need to be stopped.

So, here's a diagram of the tasing:

Pointing East... toward Mecca! Keep complaining and the terrorists will win.

I didnt know you had a green car LJ.

I WANT a tazer...really badly.

The taser abuse issue has been building for a while and the "Don't tase me, bro" incident may have brought it to the surface.

They were originally introduced as a non-lethal alternative way of dealing with someone who the police would otherwise have to shoot. Drunk/drugged/crazy guy wielding a knife scenario, and they are great for this.

They have drifted into being a handy way to inflict pain on anyone who isn't co-operating, that doesn't leave spectacular scars for the lawyer to shock the jury with. Imagine the Rodney King video with tasers instead of nightsticks. Not so shocking? (so to speak).

I'd rather the police tased someone rather than shot them, if at all possible. But I have seen quite a few web videos where tasers were used as an alternative to negotiation, and that's not good. I'd rather see all police given more negotiation training.

There have been people who have died after being tased, but it's hard to tell if it is due to the tasing. Dammit they won't let me do the experiments. And there are reports of chronic pain, headaches, stuff like that. They aren't totally safe, so they should only be used when really necessary.

I suggest this decision-making procedure:
If you didn't have a taser, would you shoot this guy right now?
If no, don't tase, keep talking, but keep reviewing this stage with your finger on the taser.
If yes, is tasing enough? If yes again ... zzzzzzzttt!
If no .... bang bang.

Any badge-wearers out there care to assess this idea? Or armchair know-it-alls?

That said, police work is a hell hard job and if you want to avoid getting tased, shot, or beaten, when the cop says "Hands up!", put your stupid hands up!

(Also, arm the rangers. Tase twice for littering, including cigarette butts. Twice per butt. Once for loud radios.)

So would you prefer that they shoot folks ??
or would you prefer a Rodney King style beat down ????
Yes , he got tazed as well and kept comeing , they tazed him MULTIPUL times and he keeps on comeing , the cops should have CAPPED him !!!

Park ranger NEED tazers , Imagen a camp ground FULL of drunk folks , dude gets rowdy and the ranger has to try and get controll of the drunk , ZAP dude hits the ground and is dragged off to the local jail , problem solved , No shots fired , no colateral damage from ricoches or over penatration of ammo
or a bear is attacking a camper , ZAP said bear is down and out or runs off trying to figuer out what just happened basicaly no worse for the experence

You don't know WHY the cops tazed that dude , hell he could have been a serial killer pedophile father raper or sum such .

Mace sucks ( yes I know from FIRST hand experience, and YES the fucker that maced me and ran off laughing PAID for it !!!! )
Pepper spray is supposed to be bad as well .
Tazers will drop most folks .
And YES folks have died from all these LESS than lethal alturnitives .

But a BULLET is LETHAL ( if used properly ) .

will someone please taze zippy on his beanbag?

jinx?

I have a 900,000 v taser, send em' over, we'll party.

No, no. (sigh). I suppose we can still try negotiation... for a while ...

Zippy, may I draw your attention to the following sentences in my original post:

the "zzzzzzzttt!" line is my attempt at the sound of a taser. It's use is to signify that I do endorse tasing where necessary. And the "bang bang" is to indicate that I do endorse shooting too, if it is absolutely necessary.
If possible, shoot to wound and capture. But there are situations where the only option is to shoot to kill. So be it.

The goal should be to use the minimum amount of force necessary. Some seem to be using the maximum amount of force that they think they can get away with.

My objection is not against tasers being used instead of guns. My objection is tasers being used instead of talking and maybe a bit of judo.
Regarding Rodney King, you suggest they should have shot him. I point out that the situation was controlled without injury to the officers, using non-lethal force. There was no need to shoot.

I have some further comments, but I am posting separately because I don't want to confuse Zippy.
(OK, I am a post whore.)

Was Rodney King tased? It's been ages since I've seen the video, can anyone remember?

Do tasers work on bears? Or would their thick coats prevent the needles from entering their bodies? Is the voltage enough? Does anyone have the guts to actually test this in the wild?

Are US park rangers responsible for campground crowd control as Zippy describes? I reckon that should not be their responsibility. It is a police issue, surely. Someone dealing with groups of angry drunks needs proper training in negotiation, unarmed combat, and weapons use (both decision making and skills). And they deserve to be paid appropriately for all of these skills and for the nature of the work. They need appropriate weapons and backup. Do we have any regular US campers who can tell me if your friendly park rangers come anywhere near this?

I think tasers and mace are just like any other tool, know when to use them. Don't police have to be tased in order to get a taser in most areas? I know some cops also have to get maced in order to get a badge.

Most cops get tased in training.
Many are not susceptible to tasing, I am one of those people. It does not affect me very much. (Was tased as a "joke" a few times when working security, some just handle it differently, it has nothing to do with size, sex, age, etc... some just handle electricity well)
Some are VERY affected by it and it can be letal... it should not be used lightly.

lol! @ Griff!

No shirt, no shoes, get tazered. Punk.


I think it's obvious from Lj's story and his diagram that the guy was clearly jaywalking through that busy intersection. Hang 'em high.

:D

RKZen, based on what you've said about your health conditions, if you were zapped, it was with the old-style, not the current TASER device being used on the streets.

Everybody drops for the taser (if both hooks are seated), where pepperspray cans carry warnings about not working on out of control psychiatric patients.

LJ, you weren't in a position to see all of what was going on at the van, and don't know what occured before the police got him stopped. If they're using the TASER, there's a reason. I deal with a lot of people who should be tased, but many of whom aren't. The picture of police as slavering anthropoids who get off on inflicting harm and playing power and control games is very, very wrong.

Stop thinking like a hippie. I know it's hard, but give it a shot every now and again.

Wolf, the van wasn't in the way when the guy was tazed, it moved as soon as the cop car (driven by the tazering cop) went around him. We had an unobstructed view. Do you have more information on what went down?

I've know more than a few cops in my lifetime, they come in all flavors. Here's a few real charmers...
I can't get a direct link to work - click on "In-car video footage" and scroll down to Deptford NJ.

Here's the related story.

I truly believe that the type of person that wants to be a cop is more likely to be that kind of a person, though. not saying that they are ALL like that. not even saying half... But I know for damn sure that many cops are ADD types that look for confrontation, and get their rocks off by exerting power over other people.

You can stop by the Wawa in Eagle any weekday around midnight and if you're inconspicuous enough, overhear them telling their little stories while they hang around the coffee island. That said.....I'm no peacemonger here, and I'd like to drag a few people out of their cars and give them a nice beating from time to time..... I only posted this because it seemed so out of place for cops to be zapping some kid with no shirt in the middle of exton at noon on a weekday. I dont know, maybe he was an escapee from devereaux or a known assrapist..... That's why the tone of this thread was lighthearted, not outraged. although i am highly outraged. verrrry highly outraged. I know that sounds outrageous.......but...

LJ I had an image of your family all looking at eachother and laughing, like the Simpsons do when something bad happens to Grandpa.

Sigh, I guess violence really is funnier in cartoons.

ZG you were quicker on the typeing than me ,
Rodney King WAS tazed MULTIPLE times and kept on comeing , as I said I would have Put 2 in his forehead ( That will stop him !!!!)
Now as to park rangers , they are Wholey under staffed and under equiped ( and underpaid to put up with this shit ) , and yes they have to deal with the folks (drunk , drugged , and deranged ) , they only call the local cops when things get out of hand (from what I understand ).
On reading your reply to LJ , we are saying basicaly the same thing ,
Approperit force to controll the situation , ending with a shot ( if need be )

Hi Zippy,
We're saying something similar, but we have a big difference about what is "appropriate" force.
For me it's about using the minimum force that is necessary to get the job done. To illustrate, Rodney King was captured without shooting. This makes it clear that it was NOT NECESSARY to shoot him. For you to say, even with the benefit of hindsight, that you would have shot him ... wow. I would consider that willful murder.

Next question:
Should high-school teachers be allowed to carry (or issued with) tasers? High school seniors are often bigger, stronger and meaner than the teacher. If park rangers get them, how about teachers? Might stop a school shooting, too.

This didn't look necessary either. Anyone know where this happened?

Hmmm. How easy would it be to overpower a person with a Tazer if you have a gun?

I think this country has become too afraid of the children. Treating them like criminals instead of teaching them is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. Why teach children in fear? WTF are you teaching exactly?!? If you are frightened of your students what does that say about your ability to teach them anything?

I'm imagining my previous English Lit. teachers right now with a tazer.....lol!!!!

Hell- everyone in this country should be sworn to start packing some heat.... fuck it.......
We can militarize the public schools too. Send in the fucking clowns.

We're effectively breeding a paranoid society. It's responsible to protect yourself and your family by ant means necessary, but it is irresponsible to teach fear.

G'day.
:D

Various thoughts:
1. Won't someone please think of the children! The little buggers are armed!
2. When you say "children" it brings up images of sweet little ten year olds. I'm thinking about 16, 17 year olds who are physically bigger than their teachers. You are treating students as one homogenous group. Even in one class there can be a huge variety of attitudes, from, "please help me get out of this urban ghetto" to "I'm only here cause I have to be, I hate you". You don't want the taser for most of them, just a few.
3. Well, it was just an idea. And I note that you are taking any excuse to post. I see though ya!
4. Guns Vs tasers ... true, but schools are supposedly gun free zones, I am thinking about fists Vs tasers.
5. Teaching fear is irresponsible. I agree ... so, how do you feel about fox news, CNN, the war on terror?
6. I teach English. I want a taser, not for security/ discipline, but for error correction. "No, no, little Yuko, it's I before E except after C .... ZZZZZZTTT!!!" :devil:
7. I am relying on you to distinguish between serious comments and humor.
8. I could have posted this in eight separate messages. Nyeh.
:D

1. As for any excuse to post: Don' let me get in your way! Tick! Be a good sportsman!:D

2. You have a problem with people being bigger than you and need a taser too? Everyone I know is bigger than me....so what?

3. Maybe they need a talking to instead of a taser? You are teaching communication skills and how to live in society instead of jail or armed warfare no matter what the individual characteristics of your students are. Aren't you supposed to be able to outwit the snot-nosed craps anyway? Oh, I guess not everyone is not up to doing their job.

4. Fox news hasn't made fear right yet. Well, in all fairness, I don't know...I don't watch it.

5. These kids are bigger'n me? Help?!? They don't like me...help?!? What if? What if?



6. I never indicated that students are homogenized. Yet, students are students no matter what the circumstances, which is why they are called: Students.


It's an idea tick. It's just not very well-crafted or planned out.

I have a lot great of ideas........but even that's not one of them.
;)

Hiya
I'd prefer not to be called tick if you don't mind. I don't like bloodsucking parasites. Still, it's better than Ballbag I suppose ;)

I am a westerner in Japan, which means I am usually bigger ... bahaha. I get to breathe in crowded subways! I had one 11 year old who insisted on Sumo wrestling me. He didn't last long - but once I had him off balance I lowered him gently to the floor, then helped him up and exchanged bows as a sign of mutual respect. He has been good since then.
I didn't mean to imply that I needed or wanted a taser. I was thinking of teachers in schools in high-crime areas.

A "talking to" works most of the time, and I do advocate that as you can see in my early posts. I was never advocating teachers using the taser as punishment, only to immediately stop violent behaviour. Punitive tasing is what I have been arguing against.
It was never about me. Anyway, I am teaching basic grammar and vocabulary, and mostly to adults.

Me neither ... I've seen a few glimpses. I like you more.

Your use of "the children" made it sound like a homogeneous generalization. So does your last sentence here. Sure, they are students, but they can also be criminals (allowing for age, ok, juvenile offenders).

True, it wasn't. So let me demonstrate my openmindedness by abandoning it. You'll notice it was suggested as a question in the first place. Matter of fact, I only put it there to distract Zippy.

If you thought this was wacky ... you wait till you see what I will soon post in the parenting forum when I run out of other things to post.... bahahaha

I tased myself on the shaft and I came out my ass.

I'm thinking of working on a vest that will stop a taser and then, perhaps, feed it back and short-out the cartage, making it unable to insert a new one... or at least buy one some time. I think it will actually be easy to make.

ZG , From what I understand appropret force does start with words , then pepper spray, then tazer , then a bullet .

Do I think a teacher should have a tazer ?
if they want one , are trained in its use and licenced , then I have NO prob with them being able to defend them selfs ,
hell a properly placed tazer zap could have stopped colombine from happening ( or being as bad as it was )
Cops in school , I think it is a SAD commentary that there HAS to be cops in school to keep these heathens in line , but it is as it is

Yeah. I think we differ on how fast to move up the scale, and what makes each step up appropriate. Ah well, dead horse beating time I think.

I think possibly you are under estimating the potential level of menace that a fucked up 16 year old can exude, and the potential level of violence in a classroom. I'm not saying that tazers are a good solution, but I think it's unfair to suggest that any teacher who cannot control every member of their class just by talking to them, is a poor teacher. There are other factors to take into account, such as the level of support within the school for the teachers and overall quality of, and discipline within the school.

If you have a large number of disaffected teenagers, who are only there because they are bound by law to attend, they are likely to be fairly unreceptive. If there is a critical mass of that kind of student (as happens in so-called 'sink schools') then it is difficult, and in some cases nigh-on impossible to actually teach: often in those situations the morale of the teachers and children is low, support is minimal, and discipline erratic and contradictory. In order to 'talk' a child through a crisis, or behaviour problem, it is necessary to build a degree of trust and receptiveness. That is not always possible in the setting in which the teaching takes place.

In terms of their role in teaching children to communicate, frankly by the age of sixteen much of the patterns of communication are set. It isn't impossible to alter those patterns, but it's difficult and messy. If a 16 year old child in your class has learned to deal with the world aggressively, a couple of hours a week in your class for two semesters are not going to rewrite that child's emotional and communicatory toolbox.

~ I think it's unfair to suggest that any teacher who cannot control every member of their class just by talking to them, is a poor teacher.~ snippy snippy from Dana C.

I in no way said that. Any teacher and every member of of their class is a pretty strong interpretation of what I said.

This is my meaning (let's get into my perspective here): My friend's daughter was a member of the honor roll at a local public high school. A student complained that she was carrying a knife. Not threatening people with it etc. etc. The girl had heard that she had one. She and her car were searched right there on the property and inside her car they found a survival kit that included a swiss army knife. She was expelled.

With this kind of paranoid judgement being pervasive in our public schools. NO, I do not think that teachers should be mandated to carry tazers.

As far as rewriting emotional and communicatory tool-boxes? No one said anything had to be rewritten. Just enhanced. We do this our entire lives. Most of us- naturally. Just admit that you have no idea which action turns someone around. As soon as you learn as something as minor as the value of learning, you can rewrite wiring yourself.

The sad fact is, if you can't be proactive- you aren't a professional (or worth your salt) in any career choice.

Your response Dana says that you also concentrate and rely on a small percentage of criminal teenagers to represent the rest of the population of students. Is being a teacher that much gloom and doom do you think? Really?

One of my ex's taught for the "bad" kids at a charter school. He never had a problem with a student. He showed up to work and actually had a great time teaching. The kids had a fun time learning. And learn they did...I don't think it would ever have crossed his mind to get a taser.

I also advocated anyone arming themselves if they feel threatened at any time. Mandating tazers is entirely different.

I understand your arguement Dana. But the US is becoming a paranoia factory, and I think people should tone down their PTSD delusions.

What is PTSD?

Honey if my line was a strong misinterpretation of what you said, then this here qualifies as the same. I did not represent all students through that small minority of criminally minded teens. I referred to a very specific situation involving 'sink-schools'. Maybe things are different in the States, but over here there are a small number of schools which end up with a much higher proportion of troubled children than do neighbouring schools. We have such a school in the ward I represent and it's currently tagged for closure. This school has made into the national press on several occasions and last year 4% of children leaving the school did so with five A to C grade qualifications including English and Maths......4%. This year with the school in Special Measures and the authority therefore allowed to enforce assistance, ploughing money and resources into the school, they are probably going to have 20% leaving with the five quals including English and Maths.

The school has a combination of problems including disruptive and violent behaviour amongst the pupils. Bullying is rife, children have been found with knives, and aggression against teachers is not uncommon.

One of the problems with a situation like that is that it can very easily spiral downwards. One of the causes of that spiral is the 'sink-school' effect: parents who are able to, get their children into other schools, thereby decreasing the number of children/parents for whom this school is their first preference. As intake decreases, so the balance of the student body alters. A higher proportion of the children attending that school have difficult homelives, and are more likely to require additional support. This is further complicated by the requirements upon local authorities to secure an education for children who've been permanently excluded from schools: if a state school has places available within it, then excluded children are given a place at the school. The other schools, where the flight from the sink school has led to higher intake, do not have the spare capacity to take on the excluded children...so the excluded (behaviourally challenging and often violent, as this is the most common reason for permanent exclusion) children tend to end up in the school that is already experiencing a higher than average proportion of troubled children, higher instances of violent or aggressive behaviour and low staff morale.

In most schools, there are some kids who do very well and there are some kids who have serious problems, some kids who have supportive families and some who don't. It more or less balances itself out in the majority of schools. But in a sink school the balance shifts and the situation becomes increasingly difficult to manage.

That's a very simplified look at an incredibly complex problem.

In the school I'm referring to, I know that there have been occasions when teachers have been fearful of their students. I also know that in this school there have been physical attacks on teachers and other students. I also know that there is a fairly well-established knife culture amongst some of the youngsters in this country.

I do apologise if I misread your assertion that That sounded to me like you were suggesting that a teacher who isn't able to control their students (regardless of the individual characters of the students) is not up to doing their job. I am suggesting that whilst that may, in some instances, be the case, it also may, in other instances, not be the case.

I didn't say that someone cannot turn it around. Nor did I say I know what turns people around. What I said, was that the emotional toolbox of a sixteen year old is a hell of a lot more difficult to 'turn around' than a younger child. I haven't got time right now to dig out the stats on behavioural problems and young offenders, but the evidence suggests that in order to effect a major change in behaviour, better results are obtained if the child is reached before they get to secondary school age.

If you think I am advocating the use of tazers, then clearly you do not understand my argument.

PTSD = Pizza and Taco Stress disorder. you get it from having gas and heartburn at the same time. it really hurts ....a lot

My sister went to a school that was considered a sink school 5 years prior to her attending. A new Head did manage to turn the school around, with the help of a lot of money thrown at it by the local authority. But there were still days when she came home from school and complained that in certain lessons she felt she had learned nothing thanks to disruptive influences in the class. When most of the major troublemakers were moved into a separate class for "disadvantaged pupils" (it was the only failing school in a Tory ward - a blot on the landscape so in those days it got additional help) the class moved on enormously. And she ran into one of these troublemakers years later and he had a good job in IT - the school didn't give up on them, they just educated them differently.

NOT saying those pupils were in any way tase-worthy, but the point is a minority of students were causing problems in a reasonably affluent area in an up-and-coming school. And with teachers who had been through far tougher times. Lord knows how hard it is to teach in classes where the worst you can get isn't being spat on or sworn at but actually physically assaulted.

I don't think any teacher should use physical means as a threat to subdue pupils - in that you're right Cicero. But as a last ditch attempt to protect themselves against physical assault, I would not have a problem with a teacher who dropped a teen with a taser. Crikey me, there will be at least one hostile witness in the class, if not more who will scream blue murder if it is used incorrectly.

:elkgrin: Tasers work on deer!

See http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=6709

Fair use of tasers here I reckon, although the release strategy lacked a little forethought. Gee, they might have called an animal center or a vet and got his wounds checked, too.

I say taze 'em all and let General Electric sort 'em out.

I would like to say once again...that I think that anyone who feels that threatened at any time by their students or others hopefully will choose to arm themselves . I think this is an individual choice and should not be mandated by schools. I don't think it should be standard operating procedure. I am in no way saying that you do not have a right to defend yourself in these situations. I just think that school security has become paranoid and over-bearing like in the example I gave of a local honor roll student. In fact, it was in the same state as Columbine and everyone is overly-paranoid now. Another friends daughter was found with a nail file and had it taken from her as well. The very same public school. I don't think everyone should be treated like a delinquent criminal. That school was full of good kids and security took it upon themselves to police and search on many occasions that were uncalled for. I spent a lot of time talking with these students because I frequented a coffee shop near the high school and they kind of looked up to me and at times falsely dubbed me as a peer. (they thought I was "cool") They were consistenly searched and had things like nail files and toenail clippers taken from them etc. etc.


I am trying to respond to Dana as well here.......
PTSD is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and I think the people of the united states are acting out of it after all of the school shootings, 9-11, and all the other recent traumas. Not only are we addressing real fears we are addressing imagined fears, and fears we have no control over, which does not bode well for out educational system.

I was reading Epictetus yesterday and realized that this 2000 something year old philosopher was warning against this type of behavior. There are real things to fear, and imagined fears, and it is up to everyone individually to decide what is a real fear and what is not. Society and civilization plummets into a burning pile of rubble quite quickly once false fear is the prominent feature of any nation is what I think he was trying to say. I think what has happened here in the United States in regard to how we treat our school-age and college students is but a symptom of much greater problem. We are teaching them to be very afraid of authority, police, and our government. Moo!

Get in line sheeple!

Some kids in public schools are bullying teachers who are trying to help. They don't need to be in the damned classroom. They infect the other students like a deadly virus, and if you are too busy protecting yourself against every student, and ignore the good ones...Aren't you you advertising your commitment to the problem? Yes Dana, this occurs.

I am not trying to be unfair to teachers. They are very commendable for doing their job under such stress at such low wages. I think they are awesome! For those that read every classroom in suburbia and in rural districts as a potential threat to their survival....well.....I'd like to ask that they give up the student harassment and seek alternative measures. Fear-mongering is no way to teach. Have some dignity. If you would like to arm yourself for a just in case scenario (with your weapon of choice)....go ahead! Please!! But I do not in any way think it behoves us to advertise our fear and contempt with mandated weapons.

I value your opinions, as both you and Dana are clever. And I think we agree on tons of issues, and hopefully I am being clear enough....And I am not trying to be inflammatory. I just think that there are some good kids out there being treated unfairly, and hell even some "bad" kids that aren't that bad that aren't a real threat, they just look funny. I'm on their side. And some of them know it. It isn't hard to project that in a classroom.

Absolutely IMO. one of my girls goes to middle school and some of those kids are scary enough

I agree with much of that. Whether it's hard to project that in a classroom is, however, dependant upon the particular circumstances and cohort within that class.

Just to clarify my position Cic: I do not believe that children should be treated like criminals, I completely agree that such tactics just serve to increase the sense of dislocation between young people and authority. I also know that there are poor (or demoralised) teachers who take the 'easy' route of blaming their pupils for a lack of discipline and enthusiasm that should rest more firmly on the teachers', or principles' heads.

In the school I referred to earlier, teachers threatened to strike and refused to deal with children they described as "unteachable". I do not believe such a child exists. Problems are more complicated than just 'bad' kids. But they are also more complicated than 'poor' teachers. Often what is required is a higher level of support for those teachers (i.e Classroom assistants and a consistent approach to rules and discipline throughout the school community) and that is something that principles and governing bodies need to take more seriously.

Since I myself have pointed out some issues from my limited perspective I will also offer a solution.....

I like Dana's idea about classroom assistants, in tandem/or in lieu of them, I would like to see the student to teacher ratio decrease. That may help if teachers and students are feeling a little overwhelmed. Lets throw more money at education! (In America) I'm tired of paying for all this crap that I don't like.


They just cut electives from some santa fe public schools. (Just heard about it, and didn't get any details) They were too broke....? I want to spend my money and taxes on that. Hire more teachers, and get more computers, leave the arts and wood-shop classes alone...that's some people's only way to survive the mind-numbing days in high school. And actually pass.

Don't taze education bro.
:D

And the parents.