Is the Cellar actually cliquey?
 

Jeb got me thinking about this again, because he said nobody lit up Lj when he crossed a line. Then I read this from UG:

Those three guys have agreed on exactly one issue by my recall, but apparently when they came together it was a little intense. The Cellar can be rough, but I think its rough on everybody to the extent that they're willing to argue a dissenting opinion strongly. I think we group up around ideas more than people, but I've been wrong before. Thoughts?

Yes, it's cliquey.

Let me add to that. I think that there are some folks that get treated differently than other folks. It might not be a clique, per se, but when two people do the same thing, one often gets a pass, the other gets hammered. And it seems to be the folks getting the pass and doing the hammering.

don't know; and I pay no attention to such things, even if it is

but it certainly can be quite mean

When talking politics, I think we mostly group up by ideas, rather than people.

But some people over time have shown themselves to be lacking reason, and they seem to be ganged up on often.

Cliques form, break off, reform and change. It is a community. Other boards are (to my mind) less rounded than the Cellar...yes people get nasty with each other, but those same people are usually ready to shelve hostilities when their erstwhile enemy is posting about something they are having problems dealing with.

Any community that doesn't involve some kind of powerplay and jostling, be that overt or not, isn't a rounded one. This is what human beings do when they congregate. We are very clever apes.

I attack sloppy thinking. Anyone else who does the same could, loosely, be considered part of some kind of "group" I suppose. Of course, I get attacked for my own sloppy thinking as well, as I should, and I welcome that as a learning experience.

If 10 people were telling me the same thing, I might think there was something to it. However, If I could demolish all 10 of their arguments, I would still say "ƒuck all 10 of you" ... I would never think of them as a "group" of ten people, though. Just 10 individuals.

Gang, or mob mentality?

It usually breaks down to side A, which acknowledges that side B has a different opinion, and tries to convince their side B that side A's opinion is correct, and side B, who thinks that side A is lacking reason.

If you're lacking in ƒucking reason, you just are. It has nothing to do with the specific subject, or opinion; it's about a method of thinking, IE do you employ internal quality control on your ideas before launching them? The people (A/B) who do this get very irritated with the people (A/B) who don't.

What Flint said.

I tend to dismiss people who lack reason, and find them annoying if they hold the same opinions I do. They make me feel dumb by association.

Although I should thank them because if I see clearly that they lack reason, then I can question my own reasons for holding the same opinion and see if they are rational ones.

pull my finger!

Spexx and Glatt are right: our associations form around ideas, and I'm in agreement with Flint about what to do about sloppy thinking.

Three isn't much of a mob, though. More of a trio. Cliques are more permanent and to my mind more exclusive than what I see going on around here.

For instance, if I were to write posts only in threads started by or containing The Mercenary, Yesman065, or Slang, and they posting likewise, plus threads containing me, that would be cliquish.

The Cellar has cliques in the same way any group of people has cliques - offices, golf clubs, Christian study groups. You gravitate towards the people who make you laugh, who share your outlook, who you respect.

If there was a blind-taste test in the Cellar I think most posters would appreciate the same posts, regardless of who they are made by.

(The exception for me is criticisms of the Cellar itself - if a new poster writes what a lousy place this is within the first month of posting I think it is less acceptable than someone who has been here 5 years).

Personally I didn't believe Jeb's post, thinking it was the typical comeback as suggested by other posters. If someone made a joke about my brother and he was dead, I'd probably address it via PM, along the lines of "Obviously you didn't know, but it's a sensitive subject with me..." I suppose it might be true, given that he posted a poem about her, but his response was unreasonable in my opinion.

I'm not sad to see him go. He's had a stick up his arse since he joined, lord knows why he stayed in a place he felt unwelcome and unwanted - closet masochist maybe. It's sad to see today's culture of victim-hood extends even here, with people constantly believing there is a huge conspiracy out to get them, rather than accepting that it might just be what they posted that prompted the response.

Jeb saw himself as a victim, and has put his sister on the ultimate pedestal of victim-hood - the untouchable death at the hands of terrorists as a symbol of America. Never mind, he's another forum's problem now.

Did Jeb say he was leaving? Nothing about it in the "Rekindling" thread.

It's in the Goodnight Cellar thread - his last two cents before the door closes on his backside.

I've never shown myself to be lacking reason, and I'm often ganged up on by various cliques.

Clique A) Those who support economic freedom but not personal freedom...aka Republicans/Fascists/etc. who want to tell you whom you may marry, what medicines you may take or medical procedures you may have, which religious doctrine you must follow, etc. These people don't think you're adult enough to decide for yourself what you should be able to do with your body.

Clique B) Those who support personal freedom but not economic freedom...aka Communists/Socialists/Hippies/etc. who think you aren't adult enough to know how much to spend on insurance, charity, education, retirement, etc. so they want to decide that for you and will decide how much of the money you earned will go toward these things for you, and for your neighbors, and for people you don't even know.

One or both of these cliques always hates me because I'm for all freedoms all of the time and I always mention common-sense, rational, reasonable, intelligent, realistic, and workable solutions to our problems which don't require force or coercion to exist.

Economic freedom is personal freedom. Many of us think that you should have both, personal and economic freedom as well. Legalize it all.

I don't hate you for those reasons. I may disagree with your opinions, but I don't hate you for them. I hate your belittling, demeaning attitude toward those who don't agree with you. Starting a statement with "you're too stupid to understand this" or something of the sort is the way an asshole starts a statement.

My problem is I just hate freedom.

Don't we all....

Sometimes it looks that way.

Over the past 6 years, it does seem that certain people are a bit "over-worshipped," while others come across as "beyond reproach." I dunno. I try to treat everyone equally here, but some folks here are real friends of mine, and I know that I've given them passes on several occasions. And I have probably been given passes myself. And that's not right. We'll still be friends if we take each other to task, and I don't think they would take it personally (I would try not to myself), so...*shrugs*

In a large group of people, there's a tendency to gravitate towards folks that are of like mind. I think that in any social setting you're going to get cliques, but the only time it's really brought up is when someone feels ostracized, less than, etc. The phrase has horrible connotations, but generally separate but equal is decent footing in those situations. Such as, I don't agree with so-and-so, but hey, everyone is different. Something like that.

Then again, I just got here, so maybe I'm completely off the mark. :neutral:

I'm not a big George Michel fan, but I think it's a catchy tune.

Mockingbird, welcome to the Cellar!

What he said.

Thank you. : ]

Yeah welcome, just watch that logical and rational shit, or we'll have to clique on you. ;)

I knew it!!! :)

Would that be the cliquety claque?

If you're tracked.

The Cellar:There are no such things as friends here, only temporary allies?
:)
*Just jokes*

Hell, its just the Internet. Don't tell me anyone takes it seriously?;)

Excuse me....do I know you? I cannot prove you exist this is "virtual" reality! How do I know you aren't a "bot"?
So as long as you are the 0's and 1's of my imagination, and/or you can't find me, I get to say that you suck. Ha! Haa!
;)
Oh crap.......nevermind.

Yeah, big mistake there, my Roman friend. I'll just pretend I didn't read your reply. People might think we're a clique. :rolleyes:

cliquey fuckers.

*goes off to start own clique with pet dog and a teddy bear*

If the Cellar were actually clicky, I'm sure UT would put some WD-40 on there.

Dana, that sounds more like a little girl's tea party than a clique.

Does Griff clique his biques?

Anyone care to join the God clique?

No sandals and robes required. No heavy duty combat weapons, no bibles, BYo Wine.

Basically we sit around and think positive thoughts about people that truly piss us off.

Whaddyyasay?

Well.....that sounds like a better deal than Labour Party meetings....where we sit around thinking negative thoughts about people that share our goals:P

:grouphug:

Stand down Dana! Your Teddy is actually the leader of our clique and your dog is second in charge.
:D

I would like to also suggest the Everybody Except Me and Elspode is on Ignore clique.

The EEMEI clique filters through all the clutter and growth of the cellar in the past years and allows you to focus in on just that person that you really care about reading.

Sure, you can open up the list as you get tired of that one person. It short, it's all about focus.

Then you can make a sig line that reads -- All you asshats are on ignore. Your comments cannot hurt me anymore. :blush:

I'm ignoring myself and Hubris boy.

I'm ignoring everyone. I think you're all a bunch of twats and cock dancers.

By definition it can't be cliquey, because we don't have the same lunch period to exclude non-members from our table.

Well, maybe we are a clique in the sense of anybody who reads or logs in and post is a member. We're a clique, but it's an inclusive clique.

He's a poet, and don't he know it!

but but but what about Sheldon? We ask and he tells.......will he be banned from being a clique of one?

Of course not. Here he would simply be a clique of one standard deviation like so many others for so many other reasons.

My clique includes any subjects of HM the Queen, any former colonists, anyone who likes a drink and any pickle lovers. And any gays because I want Sheldon's humour and he might not consider himself included in the above. And Satan, although I believe him to be an Englishman.

The rest of you can burn in hell.

SG, your HM is the Queen?

Oooh...I guess I just found out Sheldon is a guy....better get over to that Miss Cellar 2008 thread.......

Damnit. Forget it was already being used in another way.

HM= Her Maj. (note: rhymes with Vag.)