Backing up
 

Do you back up your computer at home? How?

What's the best way when you don't have an external (or extra internal) drive?

I can back up my data, simply by copying, but I know that's not the same thing. I want to take my 'puter in for servicing, but want to make a back up first. Suggestions?

The solution is to get an external drive
 

If you get an external drive, and the Ultimate Boot CD for Windows (http://www.ubcd4win.com), you can make a complete image of your hard drive suitable for restoring.

I have used this CD (and another program I bought - All Image Pro) to restore my Thinkpad to a decent state after some "issues".

Thanks,

Mitch

but I don't want to buy an external drive.

It partly depends how much you have to back up. If you have a DVD burner that's not a bad option if you have a relatively small amount. (I just this week cleared up 16GB or so by moving stuff from my Photoshop catalog offline to DVD.)

There are some online backup services. I've been trying out mozy.com and they seem OK. They will give you up to 2GB of space free; for an unlimited account it's $60 for a year or something like that. There are other people in this market to. IMO it's too young a market to really know about long-term reliability, security, etc.

I hate to say it, but in many ways an external drive is your best option these days. Though remember that those can go south too.

okay. What kind of external drive?

External and true image. Works for me. Although I think UBCD is free.

That depends on a few things. How big are the drives that you want to back up. You can also use the drive to store other things. I think mine is 120GBS, but I store the back ups for 2 computers on it. It is a drive I had and just bought a box for it.

Then you're going to make things harder....

How much data do you want to "back up"? If you're not going to make a simple flat copy of your data and you want a "real" backup, you have to put it somewhere. It seems reasonable that if you're backing up a hard drive that another hard drive would be big enough to hold all the data. It has to go somewhere, right? Where will you store it? Your choices are limited and you've just disqualified the easiest, best, cheapest, simplest, most reliable, most useful option. Now that you're feeling bad, look at your options:

Tape drive. Still have to buy some machine that goes ping, plus media. Those tapes are expensive, a hassle, and you'll likely part with considerable $$ to get the capacity you're needing.

CD-Rs. Ok, you probably have a writeable cd in your machine already. Ok, now you need the media. A cd holds about 2/3 of a gigabyte, so if you have a 60 Gb hard drive, modest not mongo, you could need as many as 100 cds. Lets be fair, say your drive is only half full. 50 cds. And you have to feed each one into your system and they all have to work. You're building a chain of fifty links. One fails, the chain fails. If you have any experience with burning cds, you'd know that fifty in a row without a mistake is a longshot. What a hassle. Then, after all that work, when your system needs a new backup, fifty more cds.

Let's just point and laugh at those who imagine any other removable *coughfloppydiskcough* media. Non starter.

So, Cloud, what will you write your backup to? Water vapor suspended in our sheltering sky? mbpark is right. Get an external hd. You won't be sorry.

Dayum, you're brave, Cloud! I'll admit it now that you've opened the topic, but I've been copying important documents to disk, and that's it. For years now. I'm such a slacker.

So, anyone have any suggestions for the technologically challenged?

Good choice.

I like what's cheap. Brands? Ok, simpletech 120 gb drive with bundled backup software usb, small (smaller than my hand) --> $90. Hard to beat. Western Digital is a first tier drive supplier, as is Seagate.

I'm not like, morally opposed, to buying an external drive. Or even monetarily opposed--just wasn't sure it was necessary. It's not like I have that much stuff on my computer, and like I said, I make copies of the data, just not the whole shebang.

I'll look into it. Thanks for the responses, people!

Okay, that's what I was afraid of. Getting more stuff when I already don't know how to mazimize my use of what I have...

You used some special reserved words that triggered the geeks in the room: "backup, not just copy". We all leapt on that and answered your apparently informed specific problem definition.

Sorry if you were bruised by our enthusiasm. Just tryin' to help, ma'am.

well, I want to take my computer in for a tune up, which is what precipitated this. Physical cleaning, fan replacement maybe, scanning for virus and unwanted stuff. I could simply have the computer techs make a backup disk for me, but that's an extra charge, and I was thinking of backing up stuff BEFORE I disconnected it and fostered the baby out.

er, I wasn't. Genuinely asking for opinions from more computer informed people than myself.

It's scary how much we are not doing backups. (points fingers at you and you and you. and me.)

So, here's another, related question: Do you have recommendation as to what "tune up" services are worth it, and which are not? I'm thinking Geek Squad,here. And no, I'm not going to do stuff myself. Like I said, I need physical cleaning, and possibly fan replacement, as well.

Kudos to you!

Making a backup is very (veryveryvery) much easier than it used to be. I personally use the solution described above by busterb. External hd, Acronis TrueImage to "image" the hard drives. It's very easy, complete, reliable, inexpensive--I know I'm gushing here, but I, like many of my colleagues here, bear some painful backup scars and those days are largely gone. The small distributed backups are just soooo easy anymore, anybody, including you, Cloud, can do them. And should do them. :)

"Don't want to do it myself"

Well, then, I'm the wrong person to ask. I understand people *do* have other's work on their computers, but I never do. I'm mr fixit m'self.

As for tune ups... heheh... was at work early the other day, a little before 7:00 and the locked front door opens and in walks this stranger! I approached him and he approached me. We exchanged good mornings and Can I help you? [suspicious] Turns out he's the contracted HVAC technician, which explains his possession of our door key, and he asked if I was comfortable with the temperature. Um ok, but I run cold. I wear my coat and hat in the office 11 months of the year. Why? No reason, hey! You're the computer guy, right?

Well, that was really all he wanted. His computer (which he had hopefully brought along) was utterly hoses by crapware. There's this "anti spyware company" that advertises their spyware removal services by infecting your computer with spyware. Like a glazier advertising on bricks. Smell something burning? Yes, those would be the fires of irony fed by the debris of someone's broken ethics.

Long story short, would I take a look at his computer. I would and I did. It took all day, and I removed literally hundreds of occurrences of some kind of crap, the cumulative weight of which rendered his browser non functional, and chewed up the majority of his processor cycles. I cleaned it up for him but he could not have done it himself.

That's cool. I have a job because this stuff happens All. The. Time.

Your question "What's worth it?" Toughie. Do you scrub your own car at the coin-op carwash or do you schedule the mobile detailer to shine it up? Slice and dice your own home grown veg or snap your fingers and shout "Garcon!"? I don't know. I can't say.

This is like a car mechanic question. Is it worth it? Should I change the oil? yes. Every week? no. should I have my windshield washer system backflushed? Ah, no. I guess the answer is to find someone you know and trust (like us) but that also knows you *and* your computer situation and habits to get a clearer picture of what's "worth it".

Then ask that guy to fix it for you. :)

okie dokie! The main reason I want to take it in, other than physical cleaning, is that my audio visual doesn't work. My multimedia audio controller was hang-firing my computer every time I went to turn it off, so I scrubbed it. But I want it back now! (or at least some version of it, hopefully that won't hang it up.)

I've just been delaying, 'cause I kept thinking--well, I have to back up first. But at some point, it's just better to do it, even without the backup, I think.

After the weekend :)

When it comes to backing up your data, external HDD's are NOT a permanent solution. The reason being there is NO difference between an internal and an external HDD, therefore whatever can go wrong with one can go wrong with the other. If you want something more secure I've got 4 suggestions for you (in the most feesable order):

1. DVD - Backup your data onto DVD's (not the best, especially if you need to access the information on a regular basis)

2. Online Backups - you can actually subsrcibe to online data storage websites that do tape backups of your information nightly. (by far the safest)

3. RAID - this method uses multiple Hard Drives, which all store not only there own information on them, but they also store a piece of the other HDD's on them, this way when one HDD goes down, you can put a new one in and it can rebuild itself from the information the others HDD's had about each other. (if you're not a tech i wouldn't recomend it)

4. SSD - Solid State Disks are hard drives with no moving parts, therefore they waaaaaay more reliable. The problem with these is that they're so new they're very expensive and they don't make them too big. (60GB is the biggest i've seen)

Also when backing up your data definetely check these locations:

C:\Documents and Settings\your_username\Favorites - for your favorites
C:\Documents and Settings\your_username\Desktop - for anything thats been sitting on your desktop
C:\Documents and Settings\your_username\My Documents - probably where most of your data is stored
C:\Documents and Settings\your_username\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Outlook - anything in here that ends in .pst is an outlook personal folder (if you use outlook only)
C:\ - some people save stuff directly on the root of C, i dont recomend doing it, but dont forget to check there.

do you mean your sound dosen't work??

that's right, 'cause I uninstalled it.

*ahem*

ext hd has the advantage of being *doable* for all the reasons listed above. Can a hd crash? yep. chances are low. can two hds crash? yep. chances are low times low.

Plus, Cloud specifically talked about backup of her system. Not merely copies of this file and that file. Could be a substantial difference.

All the items you list have their own vulnerabilities too. In fact after you disparage the ext hd option, you then proceed to recommend four different answers. Which involve the same risk and the same device: a hard drive!

The question is how to back up a home computer. I'm unconvinced your four options answer the question.

For windows xp you can use device manager to reinstall a piece of hardware to your system and let xp reinstall the drivers. Pretty easy. Wanna try it?

(confused) but it's not hardware, it's software, isn't it? And I actually have tried to reinstall it using my original discs, but couldn't figure it out, and I don't want to accidentally reinstall everything.

I made the decision to live without sound to make my computer turn off. But I want both now, wah!

Cloud, it sounds like you may just need to reinstall the sound driver. Right click your "My Computer" icon --> Properties --> "Hardware" tab --> "Device Manager", does anything have a red X, Exclamation point, or yellow question mark next to it?

The risk is low, but yet it's still there. External HDD's are almost alway sold in shock mounted enclosures, but still if that thing falls off your desk and slams into the floor, especially while the disks are spinning, you are officially SOL. At least your internal hdd is mounted to the case so it's actually more protected than your external.

backing up a system does not necassarily mean "cloning" or "ghosting" the HDD, which is making a carbon copy of the entire drive.

every single answer i listed is safer then just using a regular hdd


BigV, i'm not trying to "shit on you" or "flex on you" but trust me i know what im talking about, i do this for a living.

I don't mind paying someone who knows what they're doing to tune it up so it will last me a few years longer. Here's the Geek Squad price list, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what do go for:

http://www.geeksquad.com/pricing/#section3

It's like a complicated restaurant menu! They may not be the best choice, but it's one that's convenient and available.

it looks like this one is your best bet:

Advanced Diagnostic With Repair (diagnostic, cleaning, virus/spyware removal, OS repair, optimization, software updates)

if you set on just bringing it somewhere you may want to compare geeksquds prices with a local repair shop. often times local guys are way cheaper and almost always more knowledgable. just from what you've told me it sounds like you have a bad driver (the software that controls the hardware), a simple reinstallation will probably fix it. if your pc is name brand (dell, hp, toshiba) you can go to there websites, type in the model number and download the sound driver for free. if it's not the sound driver, it may be the physical sound card itself, if your pc is like most, the sound card is "onboard", meaning it's built right into the motherboard. if they tell you that the soundcard is bad and it IS onboard, before they try hustling you into a new motherboard remember you can probably just buy a PCI soundcard for 20 bucks and have it running better than before. i know it can be a little confusing, but if you have any questions just ask.

There are many, many things you can easily and safely do yourself. Sure there are some things that pay to pay a pro, but there aren't many. With so much information available and so many experts around, you can probably just ask a few questions and get it done by yourself. It seems to me there are several knowledgeable people right here in the cellar. Don't be afraid to try it with help. I am sure the friendly folks here will give step-by-step instructions you can print out and follow.

I am sure some will throw stones at me for this, but as far as backups and/or copies go, I personally just make copies of things (files) I want to keep. If the actual software or OS goes south to the point that I would want a "re-do" I would rather just perform a clean install and re-install my favorite programs and then recover my back up files. I just keep a list of my must have programs so I can remember what it is that I want to remember.

yes, I'm afraid of being hustled. Just like a car repair place.

I have our local work tech bois that I could ask, but I was thinking they'd be more expensive. I trust them more than some strangers, but I'd be a little ashamed, too.

Seeing as how there's GOT to be a ton of cat hair in there. (blush)

they might not be able to help you even if they want to. i do desktop support as well and it's strictly prohibited for us to fix someones pc outside of the company. if you don't mind me asking what kind of pc is it, and how old is it?

Geek Squad charges $100 to make a backup disc.

It's a 2 1/2 year old Dell desktop. I'm not really having too many issues with it (except the sound thing), but it does need to be taken apart and physically cleaned, at the very least. That, I cannot do myself.

this is more of a preventative maintenance thing. Like I said, a tune-up. Doesn't this make sense?

Have you ever cleaned the crumbs out of your toaster? Cleaning, (just cleaning, mind you) the inside of your computer is about that difficult. Well, you need a screwdriver maybe. You could do it.

I bet you can fix your soundcard problem too. Once you get to the Device Manager screen following the instructions above, at the top of the list is your computer, followed by a long slightly indented list of the components of your computer. The trick here is to "tell" your computer that you have some hardware you want to reinstall. Start by right clicking on the name of your computer at the top of the list, and choosing Scan for new hardware. This will take a short time. It may find something. If it does, then we're off to following the prompts on the Add new hardware wizard, pretty easy.

It will be even easier if you have the blue and white Dell Device Drivers disk handy when you're doing this part, since that's where the software for the soundcard hardware will be found (if it's not already installed on your computer). The system will offer you a chance to let it try to install the hardware itself. This is the best first choice. You've nothing to lose by trying this. If it works, great. If it doesn't all you've lost is five minutes.

Now if the Scan for new hardware doesn't find any new hardware, you may have to prod your system a little more. It's your Audio subsystem you're fixing, right? Ok, in the list of components in your Device Manager screen, walk down the list until you get to the section labeled Sound, video and game controllers. Click on the little plus sign on the left (this is what's called expanding the list) and look for the thing closest to the illustration posted here. Something like "Multimedia controller" or words to that effect.

You may see a warning symbol next to the component. The easiest way to fix it is it delete it and rediscover it and reinstall it and see what happens. Worst case is you're back where you started. To delete the item, right click and choose remove (yes, you're sure). Then, right click on the level higher (even all the way up to the top of the tree your computer) and choose scan for new hardware. Then it will (probably) find it again, and you'll get a shot at letting the computer reinstall it.

Are you doing this now? Cause it'd be nice to get some feedback as to what obstacles you're facing. I have a lot of this memorized, but not all the possible errors, even though they're all solvable. This is much easier to walk through together than it is to write up a comprehensive all possible paths document you can print out and follow (manymany pages). Just curious.

Rexmons:

Feel free to "flex" your "shit". How else can Cloud make an informed decision if she isn't able to hear the different sides of the conversation? (ps Cloud, I forgot--Why don't you ask one of your tech bois to recommend some professional stranger? That way you get the best of both worlds. Someone you trust (by association) and the comfort of an anonymous stranger whose fur revelations you'll never have to hear about in the office. Hmm? )

Anyway, back to the original question:

Q -- How to back up a home computer.

Rex, you say:

1 -- DVD burning.
2 -- Online backups.
3 -- RAID.
4 -- SSD.

So, before I start jawin' atcha, would you mind explaining how you get from Q to 1 and from Q to 2, etc etc? Yeah, I'm calling you out, but in a non "shit-flexing" way. :p

I will take another look at it tonight when I get home.

Regardless of the difference of opinion here, I get that y'all are trying to help, and I really appreciate it!

For inner cleaning, I use 4 compressed air cans. Take the system outdoors on a windy day, or into a person's house whom you do not like. Remove both side panels or otherwise open the system so that wind can blow through it. The cans freeze after about 30 seconds, so I alternate cans. I do the vents and power supply first but keep enough compression of air around to hit the inner fans.

"Q to 1 and from Q to 2"

what does this mean?

what you guys are failing to appreciate is my total lack of mechanical and technical skills. I take things apart and can't get them together. And it's not because I'm a "gurl"; and it's not because I don't try--it because I suck at it. I call Daughter No. 1 for anything requiring detailed hand-eye coordination, tools, or mechanical aptitude.

I'm willing to learn new skills, but by now I know my limits!

And UT . . . for inner cleaning I usually use prunes. But I think that would make kind of a mess in my 'puter!

!BEEP! !BEEP! !BEEP!

(I'm backing up--get it? hardehar) :)

How does 1 -- DVD burning meet the goal of backing up a home computer?

How does 2 -- Online backups do a backup of a home computer?

How does 3 -- RAID backup a home computer?

How does 4 -- SSD backup a home computer?

Before I start hassling you about "you're wrong!!!" I just want to know how you get to the desired end result of a backed up home computer using the examples you posted. Fair warning, I'm going to ask the follow up question about restoring from the same backups. I believe it's only fair, since a backup strategy that doesn't include how to restore is only a fig leaf.
You'll forgive me if I reserve my trust for the time being. I will however generously offer you my attention and an open mind for you to demonstrate your point. You have the chance to convince me and educate Cloud and the others here. Please, continue.

Online backups do a backup of a home computer. For $5/month you can back up 50GB of data with this service. I expect one runs a program locally that just slowly streams files out to the remote server.

And if your computer won't boot? All the backups in the world won't help you. You need an image of the whole show. IMHO. :bolt:

Ever see a diary with a little clasp to hold it shut?
Opening and closing your Dell is that easy. You're not really taking it apart. At 2 1/2 years old, you might have one that has catches and you don't even need a screwdriver to open it.

You need a booting computer to do any kind of restore, image or no.

Sorry UT. I thought about it after I went to bed. Should have said
"Windows or OS won't load." I guess

BigV,

There are primarily two kinds of "backups" you can do. One involves cloning, or making an exact copy of your HDD (aka ghost image), and the other involves just backing up your personal data (favorites, my documents, desktop items, PST folders, and any other data files you may have hidden somewhere on your HDD). Almost all of computer manufactures provide you with what’s called a Recovery CD/DVD, which is really just a ghost image of your HDD. The recovery disk will reinstall your operating system, all your device drivers, and any crappy software that usually comes with your computer. Because they give you this recovery disk, the best type of backup to do is usually the one, where you transfer over just your files and not make an exact copy of your HDD. The reason for this is that you don’t want to transfer over all the junk too. Over time, your HDD fills up with several unnecessary temporary files, cookies, spyware, viruses, and other useless stuff. Most people notice that over time there HDD’s will begin running slower than when they first purchased there computers, this is usually why. Now to answer your questions about how you can backup using the methods I listed before, here’s how:

DVD meets the goal in two ways:
1. you can either clone the HDD and make your own recovery disk using a program like Norton Ghost, or
2. You can just burn your personal data onto the DVD and make a data disk.

Online backups are primarily used to save normal data files (music, video, pictures, and office files) but you can also backup a .GHO file, which is an image of your entire HDD.

Raid, or Raid 5 to be more specific requires multiple HDD’s to hold a little piece of data about another drive, then if that drive goes down, they can fill in the blanks. Here’s a diagram:
http://wiki.emdstorage.com/uploads/RAID/RAID_6.gif

SSD or Solid State Disk is no different from a regular HDD except that it has NO moving parts. This means the failure rate is VERY low. In essence a SSD is like a giant USB flash/thumb drive. Takes a lickin and keeps on tickin.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that you don't have to back up your whole hard drive - just your data files (anything you created). For most folks this will be

Word files
pictures
movies
mp3s
email

I just backed up yesterday. In my case I ended up with two DVDs of mp3s and one DVD of source code, text documents etc. That's ~ 12 gig versus backing up both hard drives which would have been ~ 60 gig.

Everything else is stuff that I can reinstall from the original CDs or by downloading from the net.

Wow, you look and sound like a long lost friend of mine... weird. He used to hang around the cellar, sharing his wid and wistom. I miss him: dar512.



j/k! Where in the heck have you been? Welcome back!

Definitely would say to get an external hdd. I've got a DVD writer but still not gotten round to burning any files yet.

I've been looking at Mozy recently--how has your experience been, Steve?

Here's how I handle most of mine:

rsync to a dreamhost account

If you're interested, I'd check out the Mozy free service. I haven't had any trouble with it. (My problem is I need archiving as much as I need backups, and Mozy doesn't really do that.)

Gmail gives you 2000Mb. Email everything to yourself.

Bruce, or others. Here's some Gmails tips.

I'll see you and raise you...