Discrimination?
 

Is it discrimination and sexism to say that, in the dance unit for PE, you will get a worse grade for not dancing with the opposite sex, or simply be forced to pair with people of the opposite sex?

no

Nope.

Do you think it's discriminatory when they make you spell words the same way they appear in the dictionary?

No. It's dancing not sex.


Although dancing leads to sex.

It depends on what their reasoning is for it. At the least, it sounds like a silly rule to me.

Well as long as you both don't want to 'lead'... ;)

Why should a person have to dance with the opposite sex if they don't like the opposite sex?

And dont even get me started on 'The GUY has to lead, while the girl has to follow...' and all that shit.

Dancing doesnt have to be sexist; why does the school get to enforce a sexist code for dancing?
Schools shouldnt be able to discriminate by gender for any reason.

I remember when I was in school the girls often had to dance together because there was always an abundance of us.

I don't see what the challenge is really.

Did you ask the teacher why there's such a requirement? :confused:

Would you object if the partner the school picked for you was ugly?

The dance taught in schools should not be sexual. In a way you are bringing sex into it if you refuse and you are discriminating if you refuse.

But let's approach this practically. Say the school allowed people to dance with the partner of their choice. Then the "couples" would dance together, the single girls would dance together and the single boys would refuse. mostly. That's just the way it is. This rule is probably the most practical way for the school to get the stuff done. And for that reason, I wouldn't say it's discriminatory.

I might question why the school feels it's necessary to make paired dancing compulsory (as it sounds it is).

Would you claim it's discrimination if you are not allowed in the ladies locker room? Even if you have no interest in the girls? Would you think that their request that you not be allowed in unreasonable? Or discrimination? If so, I think you'd be in the minority.

Because half the world is the other half, and you better learn to live in it. Dancing is a social skill (as well as a joy), and learning to live with your fellow people is what growing up and being a human is all about.

Don't be ridiculous. After all, they have to dance with you. It's only social intercourse.

If you are being graded on your ability to dance, the gender of who you dance with should not effect that grade. If it does, something is not right. If you were being graded on your ability to play basketball, would it matter which gender you played against?

Could, would, should. It's a damn high school, in China, you do what you're told. If you think high school sucks, wait till you get a whiff of the real world.

Jeez, bruce, cool it. I dont really mind dancing with the girls - notice my comment on the 'whats making you happy?'thread - but it bothers me that it's mandatory that you HAVE to dance with the opposite sex.

That's exactly what I was talking about, it's high school. They don't give a rats ass if you think it's fair. High school is not a democracy, so it doesn't matter if you like it or not. You do what you're told or pay the penalty. Simple as that.

Right, so it's the perfect place for the rebellious amongst us to cut our teeth. :D

His question is not whether he should do it or not, it is whether it is discrimination to get a lower grade?

Attitude is part of any class's grade. If you are not cooperating with your instructor, in any way, it is reasonable to assume you will get a lower grade.

I don't think it is discriminatory in PE because that is how the class is set-up. I don't like certain kinds of math, but I had to do it.
However, it is discrimination to disallow same sex couples to dance at school functions and the schools should be prosecuted for discrimination for interfering with them.
Who the kid's dance with is none of their business.

I think it's a pretty stupid rule. What harm is done by two dudes dancing together?

They offer dancing for gays in high school. They call it wrestling.

Duh, it doesn't matter, it's high school. You do what you are told or you pay the price, there's nothing new about that.
When you went to school, didn't you expect to get a lower grade if you didn't do what the teacher said he/she wanted you to do? There's no discrimination, EVERYONE has to do what they are told. You can't whine you're being discriminated against because you don't want to do what they say, that's bullshit.

Just because that's the way it is doesn't mean it's right does it? I mean that question to be considered from a philosophical viewpoint. For example, if we all rested on our laurels and said, "the way it is is good enough", would we still be living in caves? (metaphorically speaking of course. I recognise the right of those that don't believe in evolution to change that to habitation provided by God)

Duh, so when black kids in Mississippi were forbidden to go to "white" schools, it was just school, it wasn't discrimination - according to your definition.

Would it be discrimination if the teacher made everyone dance with a partner of the same race, or suffer a lower grade?

What do they call it when I wrestle with your [insert loved female relative]? :boxers:

This ain't gona be PC.
So you have years of knowledge about schools in the south? I went to school in the 50s. Black kids got the new schools, new books. No one asked us kids about shit.
Drop by and spend a few days with me and I'll show you just what you got for you tax money, if you pay any. :bolt:

There shouldn't be a problem if two guys or two girls want to dance with eachother. You should not force a gay person to dance with someone of the opposite sex just as you shouldn't force a straight person to dance with someone of the same sex. If you are forcing people to do one, you should do the other. If you are not willing to do one, do not expect everyone to do the other as well

It's a moot point. High school is not a democracy, it's training. The inmates do not run the asylum.

that strawman has nothing to do with it, the class is not split. EVERYONE has to do the same thing... follow instructions or risk a lower grade.

Considering I'm paying large sums of mone-- er, considering youre paying large sums of money on my behalf to go to the school, I think I'm completely entitled to demand not to be discriminated against.

Horseshit, I pay large sums to keep the schools operating and I can't even go in and walk around. You are not being discriminated against until you have to do what others don't.

So by that argument, a gay marriage ban is not discriminatory.


That's complete and utter bullshit.

ewwww, I gotta dance with gurrls? They have cooties!

What are, you 8 years old?

Sorry, but this is just ridiculous. Be an adult and learn to be polite to the other half of the human race.

Yes it's discrimination. Yes it's a stupid rule. Yes it's a good thing to dance with the opp. sex just for the socialization skills, BUT it should be optional.

I've already been over this. I dont personally have any problem dancing with girls as such - in fact, in my PE class, there're quite a few more girls I'd like to dance with than boys - but I think it's ridiculous and wrong to make it a RULE that you HAVE to dance with the opposite sex.

Frivolous Lawsuit Alert!

I always thought it was a stupid irony that school is supposed to prepare you for life but goes out of it's way to make it the least like real life as possible.

Who said it's supposed to prepare you for life? It's supposed to give you basic knowledge that will make you useful to society and keep you someplace where your folks won't have to keep track of you until you're old enough to move into their basement.

if you don't sound like an 8 year old boy, then you sound like a whining misogynist. Either way, it's a very unappealing quality. In my opinion, you should concentrate your efforts on getting along with people, rather than disruptive divisiveness.

I'm certainly extremely tired of hearing you snivel about it.

Why not take a different tack and learn to dance like a dream, and make everyone, male and female, squeal with happiness? Be a fabulous gay man who has better social skills than the clueless hets.

In that case it failed miserably. Most of what I know I learned AFTER school.
And anything I learned in school I forgot. I DO remember the humiliation and abuse though.

I like you Ibram (not that you need approval for anything, esp. my approval!- just sayin') but sometimes, just sometimes, it seems that you kinda like creating controversy where none exsists.

What if the school policy said this: " A student will dance with another student of a differing race or ethnic group. If student does not comply, student will have grade lowered by one letter grade"--? Would you feel upset about this?

I have to say, this post bugs me. Gay men shouldn't be expected to be "fabulous," and there is very little to be gained from it except for people's polite toleration, which IMO isn't really worth much. A person growing up in a society that does not provide him with the same basic civil rights as everyone else shouldn't be expected to just "get along" with people.

As to this particular issue, it is a stupid rule. As a dancer, I don't see dance as necessarily referring to sexual partnership -- for instance, one of the most famous tango pairs is a brother and sister -- but I believe that the policy itself is making that connection. If the person who made the rule saw no connection between dance and sex, then why would they need to specify the sex of the participants?

I think that this is an issue worth raising, to a certain extent, although not worth suing over or getting suspended for. Maybe an op-ed piece or letter in the school paper would be appropriate.

I don't want to speak for him, but my impression of Ibram's point is not "should I do this?" It's "is it discrimination?"

you're right, gay men shouldn't have to be "fabulous"--I don't believe that, but the comment was meant to be somewhat tongue in cheek antidote to his pathetic mysoginist whining.

Gay men SHOULD, however, learn to deal in social situations with women.

Okay. IMHO, it's not discrimination. It's like being resentful that you have to do your class project with someone you don't want to do it with--you just do it and move on.

Here's a little gem of truth: Life is a Shit Sandwich and you've only had a nibble.

xoBruce---was that little moral directed at me?

I don't understand where you're coming from with this statement, Cloud. Is it because you think gay men in general are lacking in this particular social skill?

In my experience, the opposite is too often true--many straight people should learn to deal in social situations with gay men and women.

This stupid rule in Ibram's school may not seem like a big deal to most of you, especially if you're straight, because it seems "normal" to you, from your perspective. But it's the wrong environment for kids who are discovering their true identities, and are forced to conform to rules that imply that they are "not normal." Actually, it's wrong for all kids, regardless of sexual identity, because they all are being taught the same message.

Amen, bluey.

no, I don't think gay men lack social skills; that's far too general a statement. I think children lack social skills, however, and that's what is being taught here.

How about if the school "compromised" and stated that all straight students must dance with a gay student as well?

but wouldn't that force people to come out when they're not ready? Or even sure? We are talking teenagers here. And why make labels at all? Learning how to social dance is immaterial to your sexual orientation.

Then, they shouldn't give kids worse grades for not dancing with the opposite sex.

But the more bread you have the less shit you taste.
I don't know which one you are referring to but the only thing I have directed at you, no one can see but me.

Sure they should, because being uncooperative and disruptive means they are not learning the social skills which is the whole point of the class

Then if the teacher says draw a map of Germany and you draw a map of France because you're Jewish, you shouldn't get a lower grade. High School, follow orders or pay the price.

Would it be frivolous if they disallowed couples of different races or nationalities?

I don't think questioning the rules necessarily equals being uncooperative and disruptive--it's part of the learning process. And if the kids aren't given worse grades for not dancing with the opposite sex in the first place, then they're not even put in the position of having to question the rules.

That's not a good comparison by any stretch. And I think you must have had a different high school experience than I had, and/or misinterpreted the "price."

That's not his point. He's gonna dance with a girl. It's more like the teacher tells you to write the "N" word. You do it, but it's racist.

They're not inmates. They're students. If they're in training and they're not allowed to ask questions, then does that mean they're in training to become clones?