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-   -   Defining Fascism (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=13968)

Griff 04-24-2007 07:04 AM

Defining Fascism
 
A philosophy or system of government that is marked by stringent social and economic control, a strong, centralized government usually headed by a dictator, and often a policy of belligerent nationalism. -The American Heritage Dictionary


Italian Fascism according to the bastard whose life's work reversed mankind's progress eliminating servitude to the State after so much progress had been made.


Wiki has a bunch cherry picking below
A form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.- Robert Paxton Definitions like this are why Bush and UG are often called fascists.

The Cult of Tradition, The Cult of Action for Action's Sake, Disagreement is Treason, Fear of Difference, Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class, Obsession With a plot, Pacifism is Trafficking With the Enemy/Life is Permanent Warfare, Contempt for the Weak, Selective Populism, and Newspeak. - Umberto Eco I really like his action for actions sake angle. It crosses easily into all Statist philosophy not just Fascist.

Organicist conceptions of community; Philosophical idealism;
Idealization of "manly" (usually peasant or village) virtues;
A resentment of mass democracy; Elitist conceptions of political and social leadership; Racism (and usually, though not necessarily, anti-Semitism); Militarism; Imperialism. - John Weiss

We have to be careful with some definitions that are out there because they are written with the intent of showing difference with the other authoritarian scourge of the last century. We probably won't get an agreed definition but authoritarianism, militarism, and nationalism seem to be the common threads. I would also throw the close relationship of business and government in there. - Griff

elSicomoro 04-24-2007 08:10 AM

Can we all agree that fascism sucks? :)

Griff 04-24-2007 09:39 AM

:) Somehow, I suspect not.

piercehawkeye45 04-24-2007 11:30 AM

Hey guys, don't bash fascism, I'm one after all.

rkzenrage 04-24-2007 02:57 PM

For me if you promote your ideals over all and crush/suppress all other ideals. Usually accompanied with the destruction of any materials and teachings that contradict theirs.

What the European nations do with anything to do with the BNP, whit power groups or anything to do with national socialist.
So ironic and hilarious, to become a fascist to fight them.

Ibby 04-24-2007 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienHTF
Dr. Britt did an extensive study of fascist regimes. Among the study subjects were Germany (Hitler), Italy (Mussolini), Spain (Franco), Greece (Papadopolous), Chile (Pinochet), and Indonesia (Suharto). He found that the governments of each regime all exhibited fourteen common characteristics. The scary part is that the U.S. under Bush's presidency ALSO exhibits all fourteen. Therefore, beginning on the day of Bush's second inauguration, I've decided to create a series of artwork exploring each of the fourteen characteristics and displaying the ways America fits into each.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienHTF
http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs6/300W..._DamienHTF.jpg
Characteristic 1 - POWERFUL AND CONTINUING EXPRESSIONS OF NATIONAL PRIDE
"From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia." Gee... lots of flag-waving? Where have I seen THAT before...?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienHTF
http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/fs6/300W..._DamienHTF.jpg
Characteristic 2 - DISDAIN FOR THE IMPORTANCE OF HUMAN RIGHTS
"The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation."

We all know the Holocaust was a human rights nightmare. Americans usually have that drilled into them by the time they graduate from high school. What most Americans DON'T know, however, is that we are currently creating a nightmare of our own. Torture is becoming more and more widely accepted as a valid interrogation technique at prisons for war criminals and terrorists. There have been reports of various versions: sensory deprivation (the prisoner is blindfolded and fitted with ear and nose plugs and left completely with no senses for extreme periods of time), sleep deprivation, loud music, and of course, complete degradation (as was the case at Abu Gharib). As a matter of fact, the reason Guantanamo Bay is such an ideal location for a prisoner camp is because it is not on U.S. soil, so technically the prisoners aren't granted rights such as due process as guaranteed by our Constitution. Usually, they are sealed off from everything-- they don't get a phone call, they can't see a lawyer, and they can't even talk to their families. What's worse is that many of the prisoners in Cuba AREN'T terrorists at all-- Amnesty International maintains that they are guilty of nothing more than petty visa infractions. Yet, the Bush administration continues to encourage this rampant violation of human rights (even appointing Alberto Gonzales, who has authorized the use of torture in these camps and denounced Geneva Convention laws as "obsolete", as Attorney General). NOW can you see the Hitler comparison a little bit clearer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienHTF
http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/fs6/300W..._DamienHTF.jpg

Characteristic 3 - IDENTIFICATION OF ENEMIES/SCAPEGOATS AS A UNIFYING CAUSE
"The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite 'spontaneous' acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and 'terrorists.' Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly."

Hitler targeted many groups of people as enemies of his state, including communists, gypsies, blacks, and of course, most notably the Jews. In November of 1938, following the assassination of a prominent Nazi official, the German government coordinated a pogrom (a massive attack aimed at complete annihilation of a people and their environment) on several Jewish ghettoes. The event, known as Kristallnact (or "Night of Broken Glass", after all the smashed storefronts), was one of the first examples of Hitler's anti-Semitism manifested as actual violence. Synagogues were burned, stores were looted, and people were killed just for "looking Jewish".

Flash forward more than 60 years later. Bush and his cronies on the religious right ALSO have their enemies. Liberals, the French, gays and Muslims/Arab Americans are all prime targets at home, while the war in Iraq becomes America's very own pogrom. From Baghdad to Fallujah, innocent lives are being taken (100,000 Iraqi civilians and climbing) and mosques are being laid to waste. And just like the citizens of Nazi Germany, many Americans don't notice because the victims are "the enemy".

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienHTF

http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs6/300W..._DamienHTF.jpg

Characteristic 4 - THE SUPREMACY OF THE MILITARY / AVID MILITARISM
"Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite."

Here we see two prime examples of militarism gone awry. On the left, the Axis Powers of WWII (represented by Mussolini, Hitler, and Hirohito). At the height of their control, nearly all of Europe was occupied by Axis forces, as you can see by the map, as well as a great deal of the Pacific (not shown).

And on the other side of the center line, the Project for the New American Century, commonly known as the PNAC. Headed by William Kristol, the PNAC is a Washington-based organization that aims to make the entire rest of the world more conducive to American leadership. The list of prominent members includes several key Bush administration officials, including Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, and Paul Wolfowitz. The PNAC is a neoconservative group that views America as an imperial power, and hopes to further its goals by any means necessary, including military brute force. Apparently, these guys have failed to learn from history. MILITARY EMPIRES ALWAYS FAIL! Shown in red on the map below are countries that have either allied themselves militarily with the U.S. or have been/will soon be occupied by U.S. troops. Of special note here is Iran. Brace yourselves, folks, because it seriously looks like Iran is next. The Bush administration, with John Bolton's guidance, has decided to prepare itself for military action in Iran by June.


DamienHTF
is an artist on dA who is doing a series on fascism, using Dr. Laurence W. Britt's 14 points of fascism.

Ibby 04-24-2007 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Laurence Britt
1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

Emphasis mine.

DanaC 04-24-2007 04:46 PM

Interestingly, the English dictionary has a very different definition to that of the American dictionary:

Quote:


fascism
/fashiz’m/

• noun 1 an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government. 2 extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

— DERIVATIVES fascist noun & adjective fascistic adjective.

— ORIGIN Italian fascismo, from fascio ‘bundle, political group’, from Latin fascis ‘bundle’.


That was OED and Cambridge defines it :
Quote:

Fascism

noun {U}

a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control and extreme pride in country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed
fascist

adjective (ALSO fascistic)

- fascist groups

- a fascist dictator/regime

fascist

noun {C}

1 someone who supports fascism


2 a person of the far right in politics


xoxoxoBruce 04-24-2007 05:42 PM

What American dictionary are you referring to?

Undertoad 04-24-2007 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram (Post 337113)
I've decided to create a series of artwork exploring each of the fourteen characteristics and displaying the ways America fits into each.

In this case, let's call it "defining fascism down".

Mussolini and Franco rigidly controlled all media, films, and arts for propaganda purposes. But Bush is a fascist!

Pinochet ordered a death squad called the "Caravan of Death" to execute 71 of his biggest enemies in the Army, even though they were already under arrest. But the PNAC, they're fascists!

Suharto killed up to a million members of the opposition political party. But Bush...!

(H*tl*r shall remain unmentioned due to Godwin's Law.)

Ibby 04-24-2007 06:02 PM

I didnt make the art, I'm only advertising.

But you can't deny bush and his regime fits into most of the catagories, albeit not NEARLY to the terrible extremes of the 'real' fascist dictators.

Call him a protofascist, if you like. Call him a fascist-in-training. Call him a terrible president or an enemy of freedom, or even just a dumbass.
But don't call him good, or just, or anything of the sort.

Undertoad 04-24-2007 06:07 PM

It's merely garden-variety right-wing policy combined with incompetency. To go further than that is simply Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause.

xoxoxoBruce 04-24-2007 06:09 PM

He's not a fascist dictator, he's a fascist president.
He does the best he can with the power he has, but could never match a dictator for total effectiveness.

Happy Monkey 04-24-2007 06:15 PM

As he said himself.

Undertoad 04-24-2007 07:03 PM

No dictator, no fascism.

DanaC 04-24-2007 07:06 PM

Quote:

What American dictionary are you referring to?
The one Griff quoted from (American heritage dictionary). I have no idea how representative that is of other American dictionaries though.

xoxoxoBruce 04-24-2007 07:15 PM

Ah, gotcha. Brit version is worded a little more conservatively but the same theme.

Quote:

No dictator, no fascism.
That's not what the dictionary(s) says. Besides, if it acts like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's at least a wannabe.

Griff 04-25-2007 07:06 AM

I'd say the attribute would be a desire for dictatorship rather than a functional one. H*t**r was a fascist before the fire. A big fly in the ointment is that we can't look inside their heads, when they are not forthcoming enough to write a Mein Kampf.

Where does the Islamofascist label fit in? Is there a document of intention or is it just a catchy label? The islamist movement, to me, looks more decentralized and tribal..? al Sadr might have the potential though?

Spexxvet 04-25-2007 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 337169)
In this case, let's call it "defining fascism down".

Mussolini and Franco rigidly controlled all media, films, and arts for propaganda purposes. But Bush is a fascist!

Pinochet ordered a death squad called the "Caravan of Death" to execute 71 of his biggest enemies in the Army, even though they were already under arrest. But the PNAC, they're fascists!

Suharto killed up to a million members of the opposition political party. But Bush...!

(H*tl*r shall remain unmentioned due to Godwin's Law.)

YET!

The Bushies have tried to control the media, and their secrecy doesn't allow us citizens to know much of what they're doing. Something tells me that Bush would love to send many Democrats on a quail hunting trip with BIG DICK.

Spexxvet 04-25-2007 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 337178)
It's merely garden-variety right-wing policy combined with incompetency. To go further than that is simply Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause.

If he's not a fascict, why is his picture next to the definition?

Quote:

fascism
/fashiz’m/

• noun 1 an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government. 2 extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/election...s/bush_big.jpg
— DERIVATIVES fascist noun & adjective fascistic adjective.

— ORIGIN Italian fascismo, from fascio ‘bundle, political group’, from Latin fascis ‘bundle’.

tw 04-25-2007 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet (Post 337331)
Something tells me that Bush would love to send many Democrats on a quail hunting trip with BIG DICK.

Do you mean the one that shoots from the shoulder; or shoots from the hip?

Undertoad 04-25-2007 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram (Post 337173)
I didnt make the art, I'm only advertising.

It finally occurred to me why the art is precisely wrong:

In a fascist regime, it would not be permitted. Its mere existence, its creation without fear of penalty, your advertisement of it and my hosting a forum where it can be seen - are certain proof that we are not in a fascist state.
Quote:

But you can't deny bush and his regime fits into most of the catagories, albeit not NEARLY to the terrible extremes of the 'real' fascist dictators.
We're always on the slippery slope, except it's not so slopey and we aren't really slipping. In 2008 there will be an election. It won't be canceled and Bush will no longer be President.

It's also a function of what information is reported and what information is shared. We have perfected the ability to find and share the very worst take -- as well as the very best, depending on which side you're on. Sitting in the middle, things aren't so very alarming.

Urbane Guerrilla 04-26-2007 12:46 AM

I'll call him good, and just, and not remotely a proto-fascist anything. He's doing what I'd do -- shooting at the actual fascists, on their home territories -- and his doings are all just what a Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces would be doing in prosecuting a war started by coercion-minded nasties possessed of and by an idea so unpopular that the one way they can get it to prevail is by savagery. That's the functioning definition of "terrorists." Countervailing violence to suppress such as these is thus moral.

Your views, Ibbie, are both less than seasoned -- a bad thing in a democracy's politics -- and second- to third-hand, owing to your geographical remoteness. What you think you see from the island of Taiwan is not something seen by those of us here on the ground.

The totalitarian regimes of the twentieth century (and the two or three surviving regimes thereafter) relied even more on control of information available to their subject populations than on their armies and police. One may for convenience call such regimes "information dictatorships." In the era of the Internet, an information dictatorship becomes less viable by the day -- anyone foresee any final success for the Great Firewall Of China? The capabilities of technology are once again outpacing the capabilities of government.

About those comics: it most regrettably cheapens anti-fascism when anti-patriotism tries to cloak itself in anti-fascism. And the fools can't get it that we can see through them? Not too bright, are they? And Spexx, darling: Ann Coulter laughs at those so abysmally credulous as to suck in the conspiracy theories the Left is peddling, simply because our commonsensical President has Republican after his name. They were at this from early '01 and have been pushing the manure enthusiastically ever since.

Man, I am never voting Democratic. They even belie their own party name, with their softness on despots! Yuck! Harry Reid needs some foreign-policy Viagra! Or maybe Cialis for longer lasting effect.

Ibby 04-26-2007 12:55 AM

Wow, so now i'm not just an ignorant teenager, but an ignorant fe'rgner too?

xoxoxoBruce 04-26-2007 08:59 PM

He didn't say you are a foreigner, he said you watching from the cheap seats.

Ibby 04-26-2007 09:01 PM

Nowadays, it's not six months by boat for my mail and the news. It's six-tenths of a second. Anyone anywhere can know what's going on, so he's doing nothing but bullshitting once again.

Thankfully, he's even more of a joke than merc - I'm not offended, only amused.

xoxoxoBruce 04-26-2007 09:12 PM

Six months or 6/10 of a second you're still on the other side of the world where it's safe.
You don't have to check under the bed at night, in the backseat of your car coming out of the mall, or the kitchen of the restaurant, to make sure terrorists aren't going to rush out and saw your head off, like UG does.

TheMercenary 04-26-2007 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram (Post 337978)
Thankfully, he's even more of a joke than merc - I'm not offended, only amused.

Spoken like a true teen...:)

Griff 04-27-2007 09:39 AM

Fascism made easy...


1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy
2. Create a gulag
3. Develop a thug caste
4. Set up an internal surveillance system
5. Harass citizens' groups
6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release
7. Target key individuals
8. Control the press
9. Dissent equals treason
10. Suspend the rule of law

-Naomi Wolf

Happy Monkey 04-27-2007 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 337987)
Six months or 6/10 of a second you're still on the other side of the world where it's safe.

You are being wry here, right? Sorry if my wrymeter needs calibrating...

rkzenrage 04-27-2007 02:22 PM

BushCo. wants to be fascist, but are held in check, for the most part.
Europe and, especially the UK are actually limiting free speech, freedom of the press and putting cameras on every corner.
You tell me who the true fascists are.

xoxoxoBruce 04-27-2007 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 338209)
You are being wry here, right? Sorry if my wrymeter needs calibrating...

Yes, wry with lots of poop-on mustard. Did I make you feel bad for poor persecuted UG?

Happy Monkey 05-03-2007 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 337202)
No dictator, no fascism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HARVEY C. MANSFIELD
Though I want to defend the strong executive, I mainly intend to step back from that defense to show why the debate between the strong executive and its adversary, the rule of law, is necessary, good and--under the Constitution--never-ending.
In other circumstances I could see myself defending the rule of law.

But not these circumstances, apparently.

Undertoad 05-03-2007 06:13 PM

I'm sure we'll see the exact opposite opinion from the Opinion Journal during the Barack Presidency.

Happy Monkey 05-03-2007 06:19 PM

I'd hope to see the exact opposite position always.

I never thought I'd see a major newspaper editorial, even an ultraconservative one, explicitly in opposition to the rule of law.

Undertoad 05-03-2007 07:12 PM

You were in favor of Clinton's full prosecution for perjury?

Happy Monkey 05-03-2007 07:24 PM

I was against the idea that he was asked about BS like that in the first place. I was against the method and style by which they prosecuted the perjury charge. I make no excuses for Clinton's behavior, however, and have no problem with the idea of a president being prosecuted for perjury.

rkzenrage 05-06-2007 02:42 AM

Look at every city in the US where gun control is in effect.
They are putting-up cameras, Big Brother/UK/Fascist-Commie style.
Coincidence... impossible.

Put them in my town and someone will take a sniper rifle, set-up a cozy spot 1/4 mile away and have a party.
S-already been done with one of the red light cameras one town over.
A true American patriot.

duck_duck 05-09-2007 02:19 AM

Keeping an eye on american people is nothing new. You already have traffic cameras on your freeways and in every store or government building you enter. What is wrong with cameras watching other parts of the public? As long as it isn\'t in your house then where are your rights violated?

xoxoxoBruce 05-09-2007 04:19 AM

You'll never understand 2Duck, you obviously have the Oriental/Hong Kong mindset of ID cards, surveillance and government control of your life. That's probably why you were unhappy here.

piercehawkeye45 05-10-2007 05:05 PM

Have you read 1984 duck_duck?

If you haven't I would highly recommend it.

Urbane Guerrilla 05-11-2007 01:04 AM

Reading about it -- vicarious experience -- is not a substitute for actual experience, Ibbie. Too, what colors your perceptions is what you read, and frankly, from the sort of things you say, it looks to me like you're reading things that would do better spread in a flowerbed and well Roto-tillered in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 337987)
You don't have to check under the bed at night . . . like UG does.

Last time I checked under the bed, I was looking for the cat. Don't seek to find fear in my thinking unless you truly love frustration served up with disappointment. That and becoming a laughingstock. Hard on the ego, all that.

I second the 1984 recommendation. While it's really a twentieth-century period piece now, its universal truths still hold and its lessons are still valuable.

DanaC 05-11-2007 05:15 AM

Quote:

You'll never understand 2Duck, you obviously have the Oriental/Hong Kong mindset of ID cards, surveillance and government control of your life. That's probably why you were unhappy here.
Yeah....'cause there's nobody watching you in America right? Nobody checking emails or listening in to phone calls?

xoxoxoBruce 05-11-2007 05:31 AM

That's right, nobody listening to my phone calls or reading my emails.

Griff 06-01-2007 07:56 AM

The tightening noose in Great Britain.

Merseyside police are using the "spy drone", fitted with CCTV cameras, mainly for tackling anti-social behaviour and public disorder.

Ibby 06-01-2007 07:58 AM

anti-social behavior?

Holy shit, is this Britain or fucking Airstrip One? I mean come on, that's just fucking scary. Please tell me that's not the words the police used or I'll be really worried.

Rexmons 06-01-2007 08:08 AM

CAPITALISTIC ENGLISH PIG-DOG!

Aliantha 06-01-2007 08:09 AM

My parents used to accuse me of being anti social if I didn't want to talk to their friends when I was a teenager.

I don't think they ever used a drone to determine it though.

Griff 06-01-2007 08:12 AM

CAPITALIZING ENGLISH PIG-DOG!

Aliantha 06-01-2007 08:14 AM

Hey...what's wrong with pig dogs?

Rexmons 06-01-2007 08:19 AM

lol nothing i just really wanted to say that

Ibby 06-01-2007 08:22 AM

Now, gow awaeh or I will taunt yew a secont time-ah!

Aliantha 06-01-2007 08:24 AM

Ibram...what happened to your spelling?

Griff 06-01-2007 08:26 AM

Schools out!

Ibby 06-01-2007 08:27 AM

Well its hard to type an "wt-wageous acc-senteh!

Aliantha 06-01-2007 08:38 AM

OK...ummm...I think I'll just have another glass of wine...

Griff 06-01-2007 08:40 AM

I'll see you on the drunk thread in 12 hours. New bottle of Ledaig on the shelf.

Aliantha 06-01-2007 08:42 AM

Hmmmm...in 12 hours it'll be 11:37am on Saturday morning. I'll probably be not long finished breaky at that stage. If you can hang out for another 5 hours or so after that I might be here again.


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