Entitlements of prisoners
 

Recently a Muslim prisoner convicted of sexual assault used anti-discrimination laws in order to demand halal(sp?) food.

If a person commits a crime and is sent to prison as punishment, I don't believe they should get to dictate how their lives are run. I believe they forfeit all those rights once they make the decision to commit a crime. I also believe that if it's for religious reasons that they require the food (or any other special priviledges) then perhaps they should have thought of that prior to committing the crime. I'm not sure there's any religion which stipulates in their doctrine that it's ok to commit sexual assault. Most of them would say they're going to hell anyway, so what does it matter? Unless you're catholic of course. Then all you have to do is say a few hail mary's and you'll be fine. ;)

I see no problem whatsoever with a moslem prisoner being given halal food.

I believe that if dietary requirements are a recognised part of an established religion they should be recognised. I don't see them as a privelege or a benefit of any sort - it's not like the prisoner is asking for brandy and cigars after every meal.

However I think if the cost of providing halal (or kosher) meat is prohibitive to the prison a vegetarian diet is an acceptable compromise.

I don't think that demanding that prisoners abandon any religious beliefs they have can possibly benefit anyone.

Well said Sundae.

I don't like culliflower. Therefore, when ever they serve it, they should provide me with parsnips. Why not? Why does anyone get special consideration, if not everyone?
What entitles the prisoner to impose even further cost on society? I'll bet providing halal food for this guy would be just as expensive as brandy and cigars. Maybe more so.
Another good reason for the death penalty, eliminate this kind of whining crap.:rolleyes:

Prisoners can believe whatever they want. However, the life they have chosen has severely restricted the practice and expression of those beliefs. That's one of the punishments of prison. You don't get what you want when you want it; your time is not your own, it belongs to the state. Perhaps the experience is meant to teach you that if you don't commit a crime then you can do what you want, including eat a halal diet.

Feed all prisoners soylent green!

Prisoners have done something to warrant the decision to remove them from society. No special amenities should be given to them what so ever. They have done something that shows that they are not fit to walk amongst regular society and so they should not be treated like regular society.

Prisoners should be treated well but they should also help out the community doing projects. Letting them rot in prisons won't do anything but waste tax payer money.

I'm guessing a 30 year old, tough looking, prisoner in jail for murder would be more convincing as a public speaker to keep kids out of drugs or gangs then a 40 year old mom could ever be.

In my (pretty rough) junior high school, we had a yearly program where convicts currently serving prison sentences would be brought it to talk to us.

The second year they only made the "at-risk" kids go again, but the 7th graders all had to go. The thing that seemed to make the biggest impression on the budding hoodlums was when this grizzled, muscular guy said, "It's not just that you get raped in prison, boys. It's that everyone has their needs, and after 20 years, I'm here to tell you that you do things like that willingly." They were all ready to turn over a new leaf, for at least a day or two...

people in hell want ice water. but they aint gettin it.

If your religious conviction isn't strong enough to overcome this kind of superficial obstacle, then it isn't worth much. :2cents:

That reminds me of that program from when I was younger "Scared Straight." As I recall, most of the kids went back to their same old ways after a time.

In what was would halal food be as expensive as brandy and cigars? Get real.

Halal requirements

A sample list of items which are either Haram (the opposite of Halal) or Mushbooh ("Items that are designated as mashbooh are items whose status is doubtful or questionable. Muslims who are exceedingly strict may reject all mashbooh items , certain sects within the faith will also reject some mashbooh items that other Muslims would accept."):

Animal fat
Animal Shortening
Bacon
Cholesterol
Collagen
Diglyceride(animal derived)
Emulsifiers
Enzymes
Fatty Acids
Gelatin
Glyseride
Glycerol/Glycerin
Glycerol Sterate
Glycogen
Hormones
Hydrolyzed Animal Protein
Lard
Lecithin(dependent on source of product)
Monoglycerides
Pepsin
Phospholipid
Pork
Soaps(soaps are unacceptable if derived from lard, beef tallow is acceptable)
Whey

Across the road from my uni is a halal take away. The food is no more expensive than any other take away.

Dana, seriously? You know the answer to this one. It's not the food itself which is more expensive, it is maintaining two entirely separate menus, two sets of dishes washed by different soaps, training staff in what is acceptable for which setup... and that doesn't even begin to touch on the notion that if one special diet is provided then half a dozen others will be immediately requested.

If that prisoner is the only Moslem in the prison then yes it will be expensive. I doubt that's the case however.
What if the day's menu is serving pork? Are any jewish prisoners going to have to put up with pork or eat a meal lacking in basic nutrition by not eating the pork on offer?

The answer to this, of course, is that someone needs to demand an all-spaghetti diet, to honor their lord and savior :fsm:

In the U.S., because of the extent of religious diversity, this can get pretty complex. I was searching for something else and wandered across a 23 page document from the Alabama Dept of Corrections that details the religious supplies to which inmate adherents of particular faiths are allowed access. I vaguely recall a longer (50+ page version) from one of the other states.

He's the only one to use the anti discrimination laws to demand halal food so far which means that yes, he is the only one.

They're going to change the legislation so that it can't be abused in this manner in future.

Another factor is that I have no idea how strict his requirements are. Not all moslems follow that long list as a given. In hospitals, schools, universities, council offices etc across the uk, halal options are offered as standard. Usually, this does not require different kitchens or different staff......it generally involves a bunch of bulk bought frozen halal meat and a few other important ingredients. It ain't perfect and most moslems will likely engage in a much stricter definition at home....but the compromise seems to work for most people and does not involve more than a minimal cost on the part of the authority.

Any variation in the planned program requires time and trouble (read money) in an overtaxed system trying to streamline costs as much as possible. Any concession to variation will bring demands for more concessions, so they nip it in the bud. ;)

As long as the Halal food is made available to all prisoners then I'm fine with it as long as the prison is able to offer the special menu without any significant impact to their budget or facilities.

You absolutely cannot treat prisoners differently from each other for any reason other than the behaviour they exhibit.

I forget who said it but someone made the insightful point that you can tell a lot about a nation by the way it treats its prisoners. That should be a guiding principal in making a decision whether or not to accomodate the request.

It is also a good idea to not do things to p.o. the prisoner population. The last thing prison guards want is a riot based on something that is so easy to address.

Isn't one of the basic causes of friction(heat) in the prison population, anyone getting something they don't? As I understand it, even if you shit on somebody's pillow, somebody else will be pissed off you didn't shit on their pillow. :confused:

The point is, in Australian prisons, prisoners can have just about anything they want in their cells as long as they pay for it. With this in mind, I would think that if having a special menu is important to this person, then he should spend his money on halal food and not other luxuries (I don't know if he has any or not, but if they're available, I imagine he would be excercising his rights just as anyone else would be).

I agree that it's important to rehabilitate prisoners where possible and that caring for their specific requirements can in some cases enable or assist in rehabilitation, however I object to someone committing a crime and then abusing a law set up to protect victims in order to better his own position.

I'd accept that argument if he was asking for better food. But he's not, he's simply asking for food which corresponds to his (religious) dietary needs. It may not seem so important to you and I, as we aren't moslems, but for him it may be of paramount importance and being denied it may seem a greater humiliation than that inflicted on his fellow prisoners by dint of incarceration.

How about medical needs? Plenty of diabetic prisoners. Should they get the same high-carb slop as everyone else, even though it'll kill them? (Or at least make them blind, with failed kidneys and bad heart?)

Oooh ooh -- we don't owe them anything, they failed society's tests, they can't tolerate the lowest common denominator, let 'em die. :right:

No, his dietary wants, his dietary customs, not needs. He relinquished his right to wants and customs when he went to jail.There are only two choices in jail, do what you're told or suffer the consequences. That makes it very simple and theoretically equal for everyone, so nobody can complain of favoritism. :cool:

Dana, if he's a true Muslim and follows his religion according to the letter then he wouldn't be in prison in the first place. I don't accept the argument of religion as a good reason for a criminal to recieve preferential treatment. They should have listened more closely to their God in the first place before committing a crime.

As to diabetics etc, they are served diets suitable to the health requirements. As do vego's, although I disagree with that also. If they don't want the meat, then they can just not have it, and they can purchase a bag of lentils out of their weekly allowance.

Delicate, needy, high-maintainence people need to either not break the law or break it in a place where the prisons are more to your specifications.

I bet they don't give the Catholics fish on friday but I don't hear them bitching about it.

And as far as humiliation goes, I think getting gang-raped probably outranks eating pig slop.

I forgot Muslims aren't people and don't make mistakes...

Pierce, my point is that if your religion means that much to you, then you don't do things like commit sexual assault. It cannot be used as a justification for one thing and then on the other hand to say, "oops, I slipped up". You can't have it both ways.

I agree with you on that but I think it is extremely hard to make every desicion based on religion. Everyone is human but, yes, sexual assault is more extreme then a common mistake, unless their is some hidden reason but that is unlikely.

I forget who brought it up but I like the idea that prisoners can earn points and then they can choose to eat according to their religion for a little extra price. It won't deny them of their customs and it also makes them work for it to make sure they don't expect getting special treatment without a sacrifice.

Over here prisoners can get paid up to $70/week. I'm sure if having a specific food is so important to them, they could use that money to buy said food instead of a dvd player for their cell etc.

My religion dictates I must not be locked up. If incarcerated I fully expect any prison to honor my religion.

Give it a shot and get back to us with that, Jebediah. :haha:

For the record Catholics can abstain from another food type or perform another kind of penance on Fridays - they do not have to specifially abstain from meat.

I'd be all for refusing prisoners TV or cigarettes as I see those as non-essential and as privileges. I don't see allowing them to adhere to their faith is an abuse of the system or a special treat. I also don't think you can decide whether someone should practice their religion on the basis of previous behaviour. Otherwise no-one in prison should have access to spiritual guidance.

I guess people just see religion and faith based dietary constraints differently.

Peyote, that's all I would need for my religion! Oh, and some barnyard mushrooms.