David Hicks to be brought home?
 

After 5 years in Gitmo, it seems the Australian government is finally going to stand up to the US over their failure to charge David Hicks with any crime.

It's about time Howard finally grew some balls and voiced the opinion most of us have held for years now over this issue; that unless the US intends to formally charge the man with a crime, he should be brought home.

They should have charged him or killed him long ago. :cool:

Yup. Trust me the English are none too pleased at the fact a number of our citizens were held without charge for years in Gitmo.

Well if they were going to charge him then yes they should have.

I don't know if he's innocent or guilty, but the lack of action is inexcusible. Anyway, it looks like they're charging him now. The death penalty is not an option and he will be serving his sentance in Australia, if he's found guilty.

So after five years, the United States Government is finally going to charge the man for a crime.

Let it therefore be decreed that the process of manufacturing evidence does not, in fact, follow Moore's Law.

He'll be able to tell his grandchildren he was successful. He went looking for trouble and found it. :smack:

how could you not know what you were training for for gods sake. nice people just dont get caught up in that shit. dont bring him back here.

It's called mercenary training. Private military personal are trained all over the world every day. Young kids are easily recruited for mercenary or private armies with the expectation of adventure - ie the Spanish Civil War and the Abraham Lincoln brigade. Why is his situation any different?

Young kids are easily recruited for mercentary or private armies with the expectation of adventure - ie the Crips and the Bloods and LA gang warfare. Why is his situation any different?

Young kids are easily recruited for mercentary or private armies with the expectation of adventure - ie the Quicky Mart is really . . . d'oh!

There's some good points here. I hope they move along with the process for Hicks, however it seems they may take up to a year more to bring him to trial, even if the charges are to be laid imminently.

5 years without trial is out of order, no matter what he's done. There's no doubt he's an idiot, it needs to be determined just how dangerous an idiot he is.

The detailled allegations released today against Hicks are pretty scary, but the inaction from the government is terrifying.

I knew a couple of guys at school who could well have turned out like Hicks; gun nuts, joined the Army Cadets as soon as they were able and talked about going shooting on the weekends, they thought Tour of Duty was the best thing on TV...

UT has benchmarked him: So was he a really dangerous gang member or just another street hustler? Five years, prison, torture, and they still don't know. Welcome to what happens when people like Urbane Guerrilla come to power. UG even calls himself a libertarian - like George Jr would sacrifice his legacy for America.

Well of course something is going to happen. It's an election year in Oz. You can be damn sure Howard doesn't want that sort of issue to be still on the agenda when he goes to an election that he will find difficult to win as it is.

Surely the average voter is not going to give Howard kudos for this regardless of whether he actually does something or not.

Aren't they going to say, it's about fucking time???

My point is, if a voter is going to swing for just one issue, I'd say they've already swung the other way thanks to Mr Rudd not doing anything wrong, which is really all he has to keep doing.

I resent the implication that your stupid voters are smarter than our stupid voters.

Hmmm...well when you put it that way, maybe I should be more concerned.

umm hasn't he been formally charged now? i didnt see anyone else mention it as i skimmed over the posts.

It turns out Spain hasn't charged the Madrid bombers yet.

and if everybody else was jumping off a bridge would you do it?

He was formally charged yesterday Kagen. His trial should be set for August I believe. They're still trying to have it brought home.

If you have a look at the charges, well actually, there's only one now (from what I've heard), and it's no where near as severe as the other one which was dropped along with the previous ones which were also dropped. Actually, I don't think the word 'dropped' is the right word, because they had never formally charged him prior to this. They had just talked about what they thought they might charge him with.

Now they have to prove that he was actually planning on being a terrorist, and not just some wanker who wanted to be a bit more gung ho than was healthy for him.

So now the US government is going to sack Hicks' lawyer for contemptuous language towards the pres and vice pres. This will once again cause delays in bringing him to trial.

What a crock of fucking shit!

No, the US military hierarchy have backed down from these comments. They now say that they have no intention of sacking Major Mori, but I would not give you 2 cents for his career prospects , once the case is over. I think they will pressure him to resign - probably a few months after the case is settled, and assuming there is no appeal. I feel sorry for Mori, because he has been criticised for doing his job. He is a defence lawyer (in this case), and is doing a good job, under extremely adverse conditions. I would hope that some civilian law firm would offer him a job when this is all over. He deserves it.

I am in no way backing David Hicks, by the way, although I think that his being held for five years without charges and a trial is disgusting. He was definitely stupid to support the Taliban, and if what the prosecution alleges - that he returned to Afghanistan briefly, after 9/11 - is true, then that makes him doubly an idiot.

I agree with what you've said here BD. Maybe Mori will be offered a job by us when it's all over? It's got to be a good chance.

Ok, so they've downgraded the charges to "Providing material support to terrorism" and set a hearing date. Is the massive downgrade due to lack of evidence? Probably. If so, does the military commission have enough evidence to prove guilt on the lesser charge? I hope so, 'cause it'll get real ugly otherwise.

I'd wager there'll be a guilty verdict on the PMSTT charge, but that the sentence handed down will be only little more than the five years he's already served.

Even if he isn't guilty, I can not possibly imagine a Not Guilty verdict. It would further undermine the whole GITMO thing beyond belief.

Hicks 'sedated' before charges read

March 19, 2007

AUSTRALIAN terrorism suspect David Hicks was forcibly sedated before he was told of new charges to be bought against him, his US military defence lawyer says.
Hicks, who has been detained at Guantanamo Bay since 2002, was visited in his cell by an official who gave him the sedative, Major Michael Mori told Fairfax newspapers today.

Major Mori said Hicks was told the liquid medicine was for a chronic stomach problem.

Hicks was knocked out for 24 hours then taken to a room and told about the charges, Major Mori said.

The incident happened the day after Hicks's legal team, including Adelaide lawyer David McLeod, left Guantanamo Bay early last month, the newspapers report.

“They told him they wanted to try a new medicine for his stomach problems,” Major Mori said.

“It sedated him. It basically knocked him out for 24 hours, it was a strong sedative and the next thing he knew he was being dragged into a room and told about the charges.”

I say send him and all of the other marginal captives to their respective home countries regardless of the consequences. Their countries can make the decision to keep them, release them, or chop off their heads. Keep the ones with solid evidence and let them rot in Cuba. Not really all that difficult.

About half of Guantanamo's prisoners (about 400) have been released to their home countries. Most all (if not all) were then released because they were never guilty.

In Guantanamo are maybe 8 or 14 actually guilty and dangerous prisons - in a facility that held 800 for years without even access to a lawyer. But then American citizens who liked this (by their inaction) are so moral. We are not even discussing torture.

About 400 remain in Guantanamo. Curious is one who wants to claim planning for everything including the bombings in Bali - which had nothing to do with Al Qaeda. But then if one wants to be a martyr, then who better to promote martyrdom better than George Jr, Gonzales, and Cheney.

Meanwhile, America was not kidnapping and torturing throughout the world. George Jr told us so; along with denial about Iraq looting. Therefore it must be true? No. Therefore it is probably a lie because the statements are inspired by political agendas.

I am all for releasing them to their host countries. I say have at it. I could really care less.

Apparently he will serve his sentance in Australia - whatever it is as deemed by the one sided military system he's being prosecuted under. I think this is a good thing. If even half of what has been said about Hicks is true, he's short half a brain anyway and will require treatment which is obviously not forthcomming in Gitmo.

NPR did a good story on him today. If they are believed to be accurate the Aussies don't have any real love for him and thinks he is getting what he deserved.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=9156679

I wouldn't believe everything in the media if I were you.

Realistically, there are very few Australians who are saying he should be simply released. What most Australians are saying is that it's criminal what's been done to him and when are the authorities responsible for that crime going to be held accountable.

His guilt or innocence has become secondary.

A terrorist, secondary? Okee-dokee, you can have em'.

Of course his guilt or innocence is secondary when the issue is how he is treated before his trial. At that point, you can't put guilt or innocence into the equation.

Even after a trial and a guilty verdict, there are issues that are orthogonal to his guilt or innocence.

Who knows if he's a terrorist? He's never been tried. My statement refers to the fact that he's been treated so poorly and he wasn't even charged for several years. now he's finally agreed to a plea bargain and I don't doubt that it's just so that he can get out of the shithole he's been living in, so this does not prove his guilt.

Ok, maybe we could just send him back with some bomb making material or he could fly himself in a 747.:worried:

Non sequitur.

Again, no one knows if this man is a terrorist or not.

Well I guess my plan is a good way to find out. Ok, if he can't fly an airplane we could just let him fly commercial with a fully loaded AK-47 back to Aussie land.

You really do have issues with reality don't you?

I am quite in touch with reality. It is people who want to ignore terrorists like Hicks that got us into much of this mess in the first place. Line right up with the rest of the sheep.

Once again, he's not been proven guilty of any crime. Do you have so little faith in your judicial system that you'll make your own decision instead of waiting for the facts?

No I do not want to wait. I want to send him back to Aussie Land as soon as possible. Nothing more nothing less. I want him to go home to his country of origin. I want all of the detainees to go home to thier home countries immediately. Released to thier countries governments to do with as they please. I want he US to stop spending tax payer dollars on these idiots. Put them all on rafts out to sea. Just get them off our backs.

That's exactly the way I see it A. Guilty or innocent, justice delayed is still justice denied. Even now, the military commissions don't seem to have much justice about them.

Well maybe he will cash in after all.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...src=rss&rpc=22

It's pretty likely that the govt will go after Hicks if he looks like making a fortune off this. Just this week the government has taken out an injunction stopping the Corby family spending the proceeds of book and TV deals after Schapelle Corby's drug conviction in Bali. There are a lot of parellells between the two cases.

David Hicks to be a free man by the end of this year. His astoundingly light sentence means he'll walk out of an Adelaide jail on new years eve.

Col. Davis had originally wanted a 20-year jail term. Hicks was given a seven-year sentence but six years and three months were suspended as part of a plea deal.

The US must hand him over to local authorities within two months to serve the rest of his term in Australia.

He is expected to be flown home by the US.

"Really, at this point everything is in place except for typing up a record of trial, which could be done in two days," Maj Mori said.

"The convening authority's action could be done very quickly. It could be done by the end of this week," he said.

Asked what al-Qaida would take from the sentence, Col. Davis said: "I don't know. I guess I take a broader view . . . We afforded an al-Qaida terrorist a full and fair trial. David Hicks is very fortunate. He is getting a second chance. I hope he's learned a lesson from this."

Prosecutors were told the plea deal meant they could ask only for a seven-year term with a suspended sentence even though the maximum penalty was a life sentence.

More here

Where's the *tsk tsk tsk* smiley when you need it?