Iran
 

Please Mr. Bush, let's not invade Iran.

It would never get passed, we have no more extra troops and the senate and house would NEVER allow it.

Not in a million years....
 

Iran, with 60 million people and a military to match, would be a most worthy adversary.

But Bush doesnt care about congress, remember? It's not a war, its an executively declared emergency requiring use of military strength by the president. He doesnt listen to Congress at all. Even less now that it's not completely in his pocket.

What troops is he going to use?

Personally, I am against the fact of pissing Russia and China off as well. They are actually working with us on the Iran issue and if we screw it up, I think there will be another 30 days of half staffed flags.

I heard Congressman Charles Rangel of NY recently introduced legislation to bring back the military draft in the US.

If the US invades Iran, it'll make Iraq look like a walk in the park...with an icecream sundae.

He did that to avoid war. If we had to institute a draft, no one would support the war.

Escalation = Draft
 

Boy, that's wishful thinking. GW might just take Rangel up on it and re-institute the draft on executive order.

GW doesn't have support for an escalation, but that's not stopping him, is it?

A draft would bring about the quickest possible end to this war. Simple as that.

I still don't support it though. A draft is NEVER justified.

This report claims; That 76% has an "if" clause in there, but it was an emotional time.

I would believe that 27% support the draft today, also. I'd also believe there's an equal number that are dead set against it.

The other 46%? I'd guess there are quite a few that don't give a shit one way or the other.....or anything else the government does, that doesn't effect them directly & immediately. You know them.... they're so self centered, making money and amusing themselves is all they know. What? 10%? 20%?

That still leaves a group larger than the yeas or nays, the swing group. Probably, if asked by a close friend, would state an opinion but feel it's up to the government to do what they have to do. Maybe feel a little helpless in the face of Uncle Sam or even afraid of pissing off business contacts by appearing to be on the wrong side. A bit of the love it or leave it, but never, ever, criticize it.

Where was I going? Oh yeah, don't assume a draft would stir up that much controversy...unlikely but possible. :tinfoil:

Being of draft age and obviously knowing kids of draft age I will tell you the two most quoted statements when it comes to Bush.

"Bush is an idiot"
"I don't really care, as long as I don't get drafted"

If their was a draft in the war against terror, colleges would riot. Parents would freak out, Bush would have the whole US population except maybe 10-15% not just against him, but out to kill him.

There will be no draft. I pointed this out here in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and I will now point this out in 2007.

Sorry Rich, I have to use you as a foil once again.

It's four years since this "in the next 5 years" statement and STILL the hand-wringing goes on.

Was he right about that? Or utterly and completely wrong on all counts? Since the economy has been strong for three years, are there no people wanting to sign up?

Rich's "only" unknown turned out badly. No draft yet. Could it be there was more Rich didn't know?

You can hate him for his actual policies, or you can hate him for the policies you make up in your head.

Don't worry Rich, there is no chance your son will serve his country.

I think you're overstating things quite a bit there PH. I think most everyone feels that way about the prospect of being forced to serve their country. You could insert whatever current Presidents name you wanted in that statement. It wouldn't matter one iota - NO parent wants their kid to die & no "kid"wants to go to war & die either - except maybe UG. But his kind are far and few between. The number of Americans who were around for WWI and WWII are few and unfortunately my generation and more so yours have lost the lessons they learned and fought for. We have reaped the benefits of their blood and been brought up in the freedom they died for. Stories told, yes, but the individual experience and learning is not ours to have - perhaps unfortunately.

Well here are some articles about a US-Iranian war. If I find more I will post them.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle7147.htm

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle16169.htm

That's wishful thinking. Do you think Bob Jones University would riot? How about Virginia Military? Utah? Texas A&M?

85% out to kill Bush? When at least half the people in the country wouldn't be affected? I don't think we have to worry about civil insurrection. :headshake

Of course it was exaggeration but the point is Americans won't take it likely. At least the ones affected by it.

No, the average American nowadays is as apathetic as a slug, until you pour salt on them.

While I appreciate your optimism, I do not share it. Fire up the draft and it'll be more than the occasional dingbat stalking the ranch in Crawford. Much more.

Nice articles, but they certainly are rather biased. Did you read the homepage and the link: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/who.htm

I am aware of how bias it is but it gives the opposite side than what we are used to hearing so I thought it would be a nice balance. Here are two more articles by the way.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle15564.htm

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle13590.htm

I thought of something while reading this and I was suprised I didn't think of this earlier.

The US and Israel are against a nuclear armed Iran. Iran says it only wants nuclear power, not weapons. We say it is bullshit. To prove this couldn't we offer to help build power plants with other technology? Then Iran wouldn't have an excuse to become nuclear armed and it would help Iran accomplish it's economic goals.

Interesting reading indeed ph. Thanks for the links.

I like it. This is a positive step. Based on Iran's response to our offer, we could determine their intentions. If Iran accepts our technological assistance and allows the inspectors unrestricted access, how can the US or the world deny a country the right to provide an energy source for its people's welfare?

However, any time you're generating with nuclear power, you will have plutonium getting made. If there's plutonium getting made, and any real progress toward a fuel rod reprocessing capacity, fission weapons are not merely a likely possibility. Even the presence of a plutonium reactor to use the Pu-239 etc for power generation shall not guarantee an absence of fissile nuclear weapons material in stockpile, awaiting the best misuse.

There's a lot of useless, even fatuous, blather about allowing Iran a nuclear power plant but keeping reprocessing and enrichment out of that country. Keeping monopolies is a foredoomed folly -- who the hell accepts a choice between getting our friends or ourselves nuked soon, or nuked some years later? Somebody who really wants to be remembered like Neville Chamberlain, I'd say.

The combination of the Ahmedinajad government and nuclear power alarms everyone but Kim Jong Il.

Iran already has oil. You suggest using something other than nuclear technology. Whatever it is, we'd be interested in seeing it in the UK before you start giving it to the Iranians please :)

The trouble is that we're sending 21,500 extra troops to the region anyway. We've already got several carrier strike groups in the Persian gulf and surrounding seas and there is another aircraft carrier on it's way.

Every news source that mentions the USS Stennis sailing to the Persian Gulf says that it is a warning to Iran, and I doubt that aircraft carriers would be very useful for calming sectarian violence in Iraq.

Antiwar.com also has a collection of evidence that we're edging toward a war with Iran.

Yes, after today I have realized that fact that we, against all logic and common sense, probably will go to war with Iran. If Iran does have those Sunburn missles, we are going to get raped in the Persian Gulf, there is no escape route.

Hell, Gary Hart believes the Iran invasion will be the "October Surprise" before the November elections.

Iran was always on Bush's hit list; he needs Iran to get that oil pipeline.
I sincerely hope with every fibre of my being, that he is kicked out of office and brought to trial for war crimes, and that no more British, American and Allied troops, along with thousands of innocent civilians, have to die for this insanity.

It's more than that, now, for Iran. They feel it's a matter of principle that, as a soveriegn nation, they have the right to develop nuclear power. And it's a matter of saving face, to not knuckle under to the satanic Americans.

Yes, but that is the only thing I can see that will bring peace for certain.

You'd do better hoping for victory with every fiber of your being instead. Losing to the anti-Westerners will redound upon YOU.

Actually attempting to win a war, and one we DIDN'T start as you will recall, is hardly a "war crime."

When I hear things like this from people, all I can imagine is that they don't have the first idea where their true interests lie.

Wait, invading a soverign nation under false pretenses after an impartial UN group determined there was no reason to invade is not starting it?

Is Iran responsible in any way for all the insurgency going on now in Iraq? Do you think maybe, just maybe, that it is doing everything it can behind the scenes to make sure we are unsuccessful? Just askin.

Iran seems to want peace with the US

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070115/...iran_iraq_dc_2

Iran is responsible for supporting the insurgency just like the US is responsible for doing same for the IRA in Northern Ireland. If it was not obvious, the United States was the number one supporter of IRA terrorism. Before you listen to George Jr and Rush Limbaugh spin, remember what supported the IRA.

How much support did the US Government send to the IRA?

Oops! Time to jump off the democracy bandwagon eh?

So if Iran is responsible for the insurgency, then perhaps we should work to seal the border between the two countries. Perhaps things wouldn't be so bad if there weren't rabblerousers creating such disruptions. As long as we are dealing with this BS we aren't in Iran are we? Thats what Iran wants, right? Isn't it better for Iran to have the US fighting (and losing) the PR war in Iraq because so many want to forget the fact that the war on terror needs to be fought and I'd rather do it there than here.
For your information, Those and these were/are my thoughts tw, mine alone. I don't listen to George JR. nor Rush - in fact, it is YOU who seem to spend a lot of time listening to them since you know so much about what he thinks says and believes.
You constantly make assumptions about me and where I get my opinions and you have been WRONG every single time. So please stop it. It's really annoying and simply makes you look like more ignorant than you already are and trust me you don't need my help.

granted the USa didnt "start it", but have no doubt it was an INVASION, an ILLEGAL INVASION, and had nothing whatsoever to do with Iraq. the attack on twin towers was carried out by Saudi, or (wait for it) the CIA, but of course Bush's interests are already sorted there, so he went after the one Daddy couldnt bag.
i know for sure where my interests lie, and it isnt in some Right Wing Fundamentalist Christian warmonger.

Snort.

LMAO, good thing you were only kidding - weren't you?

Almost time to put the patriotic magnet back on the car!

I said completely opposite of what you are posting. Are you now telling me that the US government supported the IRA? I did not say that. Why do you reply as if I said that? Your reply only makes sense if you view nations as a monolithic block.

Iraq Study Group constructed a comprehensive plan to get out of Iraq. Insightful, comprehensive, and based in reality. Guess what. Neither Syria nor Iran have the 'enemy' attitude promoted by a mental midget president. So fools in this administration will promote lies so that you don't respect the only 'out' we have.

You have assumed an insurgency is fueled primarily by foreign forces. Did you read facts even in 2003? Iraq was chock full of ammunition dumps. So much not eliminated because America had too few troops (who made that stupid mistake?). So much munitions unguarded because America disbanded the Iraqi military. The insurgency is fueled by a country chock full of munitions. Where would external munitions come from? Jordan. Kuwait. Turkey. Smuggling is rampant because the US disbanded the military and deBaathified the country. Because the US has too few troops in country.

How does an anti-American president get you to blame someone else? Blame Syria and Iran. It is an old trip used by Hitler to rally his brown shirts. The Iraq Study Group has a workable solution. But first you must ignore George Jr lies and propaganda. Smuggling is also supplying the insurgency? Probably. And both Syria and Iran have interests in capturing what they call criminals; what we call mafia.

Instead the enemy of America blames Iran and Syria so that the biased among us will not demand the only possible solution from the Iraq Study Group.

UM, cuz you did! Read your own post! #37.

Yes they did, but that is not yet the goal our Government set forth - We have not completed our objectives. If we leave now it will only make for a stronger and more dangerous Iran and Syria. The ISG was done by the United States Institute of Peace (USIP) They are biased to that end - peace. Peace is great and we all want that eventually, but it is not yet time for peace. There are people who want to end our way of life and will do so the first chance they get.
Does the situation suck? Absolutely, but just because there is a lot of hard work ahead and a great unknown does not mean that we quit or give up. There is a much bigger picture here than just Iraq - it is the global threat of terrorism that must be shown we will not back down - period. I don't have any of the answers, I wish I did. But bitching and complaining (which is all you seem to do) is the worst thing that can happen right now. Our country cannot leave - we need another solution - perhaps you should put forth your efforts to that end instead of being so fucking negative.

You are completely blinded by your political parties views that it is borderline treasonous. You claim to be so freakin smart - prove it! Thought ideas and input are what is needed not degrading our elected leadership- that makes us look worse, accomplishes nothing, undermines our country and threatens our lives.

Well here is that post #37: Do you understand what the "US" is? Do you regard the entire nation as one big government? Even China is not that monolithic. To not understand what I have posted, you assume each nation as a monolithic block. Stop doing that. That was the point of post #37 that you still do not comprehend. You are still buying into this 'black and white' lie of evil Syria and evil Iran. Did you know, for example, that before "Mission Accomplished", Syria was a major source of spying for the US? How can this be if they were American enemies? Guess what. Eliminate that black and white world promoted by extremist rhetoric. Only a fool thinks Iraq is about Syrian and Iranian dominance.

Yes, there is political contesting between us. And there are also many political interests that we all share. Did you understand why your attitudes are so contradictory to what is published by the Iraq Study Group? Do you understand that you post disdain for other nations actively promoted on Fox News and by George Jr?

Does the situation suck? Of course. That was lessons of history and military science 101. That is why planning for the peace before war starts was so necessary - and not done by those who know only using political agendas. That is the point made so obvious in PBS Frontline's The Lost Year. Did you view it yet - or do you just somehow know it is communist inspired propaganda?

Funny how you only see bitching and never see solutions. Solutions were repeatedly defined. And since George Jr have made those solutions impossible, the Iraq Study Group is our only viable resolution. Did you read that either - or just know from what you heard? And again you have been brainwashed by Fox News, CBN, Fox News, and other purveyors of wacko extremism. For if global terrorism really was the agenda, then when do you ask this question? "When do we go after bin Laden?"

Why so much silence from Yesman065? The #1 example of terrorism and Yesman065 does not ask that question weekly? Instead we are fighting bin Laden in iraq? Yesman065 - at what point do you see the irony of your own beliefs?

Getting bin Laden is not a political agenda promoted by Fox News and the mental midget. Stop associating yourself with such anti-Americans. What political party would that be? Since you made the statement, then you clearly know what my political party is. After all, Yesman065 would not post without first learning facts? Yesman065 would not label me treasonous without first learning facts - would he? Clearly you know what my political party is. Name it? Or is this another embarrassing question you will not answer.

I don't make any claims of being smart. I first learn facts before having an opinion. I also claim to confront what I regard as classic anti-Americans - those who somehow know without first learning facts. The soundbyte description of those same radical extremists? Liars.

If you think for one minute that we are somehow fighting terrorism in Iraq to keep it out of America, then you are clearly having an opinion not based in the facts and in the lessons of history. You are doing exactly what 'big dics' did in the 1960s to justify Vietnam. Conclusions that twisted politically biased speculations into proclaimed fact - the Domino Theory. Conclusions inspired because McCarthyism must be right. Learn from history. Did you read the Pentagon Papers? Making of a Quagmire? A Bright and Shining Lie? Why not?

How do you know that a president with a long history of lying is not lying again? Where are your facts? Meanwhile, instead of bitching, I am again posting solutions. One of them is for you to first learn before just knowing something. Posted is reading so that you learn lessons of history. These solutions were posted repeatedly previously. Did you learn from them?

I don't claim to be smart. I only conclude based upon facts, trends, numbers, history ... and with a total contempt for decisions based in a political agenda and biased speculations. Stopping terrorism in Iraq? Also true if you believe there is a light in the end of the tunnel. If you think Iraq is about stopping world wide terrorism, then you are using classic 'big dic' thinking promoted by America’s anti-American leadership.

The draft is a bad thing, conscription is not the answer. Pay your people well to attract them to the job, and train the hell out of them.

These "people" ( Islamic terrorists) are barbarians, and beneath our contempt.
I for one do not want to use my guns to defend my neighborhood against a bunch of "Islamic" nut cases. I would rather shoot Pepsi cans, and paper targets.
As fer as Israel is concerned, we need to remember that these people survived the holocaust,(yes Adolph it really happened) and do not want a repeat of history.

Right. The answer to the (patently ignored) question "How much support did the US Government give the IRA?" is "None at all", which breaks the IRA analogy in the case of Iran.

Iran, who is supplying the insurgency with materiel, currently in the form of shaped explosive charges that are specifically anti-tank. And expertise in the form of senior military personnel.

[quote]the Iraq Study Group is our only viable resolution. Did you read that either - or just know from what you heard?[quote]

[quote]I don't make any claims of being smart. I first learn facts before having an opinion.[quote]

[quote]And again you have been brainwashed by Fox News, CBN, Fox News, and other purveyors of wacko extremism.[quote]

I thought tw's point about the IRA was that the funding was coming from private Americans rather than the gummint? He has taken the density up a couple notches though...

If we are trying to get out - that was their recommendation. What did they offer as an alternative if we stayed? I read the report - did you?
Well then stop acting like you are better than everyone else and writing like whatever you say is right, just and should be taken as gospel.
OMG - And you are supposed to be Mr. Impartial? Get real - there is no one more biased to an extreme than YOU. You have your little agenda and you come here spouting your "facts", many of which are wrong, and then sidestep the actual point made until it is lost under mountains of misinformation and conjecture.

I have to stop if I keep going at this with you I'll probably get banned and you are certainly not worth that. I value this place too much

It's an analogy. "Just like".
The US Gov tried successfully and unsuccessfully to stop it.

Private individuals in the US were - and maybe still are - the source of funding for many anti-US middle east terrorist organizations via fake charities, just like the IRA situation. It's no surprise. This is where the money is.

tw drives everyone up the wall at some point. That is understood and will be available as evidence at trial.

Thats good to know cuz I sure as hell won't have any character references comin from here. - thanks

of course. it was the Illuminati ! :D

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...94186333362123

i dont agree with the attacking of other members, but i mostly agree with TW's post above. why is it so hard to believe the govt's are not telling the truth and the whole truth? people should question their govts, and probe for the truth. there is enough information coming out to bolster the opinion that there is a hidden agenda in just about everything our govts do. try to imagine what theyre NOT telling us.

I don't think any gov't ever anywhere told "the masses" all of what was/is going on. There are hidden agendas in every Gov't. I can honestly say that we probably don't want to know what they aren't telling us. For example, the London cell plot that was recently exposed. Having things like that happen or knowing they were about to potentially happen here in America would NOT be a good thing.

how so?

Uh, Mass panic, utter disorder, paranoia. . . Please?