Aikido
 

I am interested in learning more about Aikido.

I have zero previous martial arts training. I have an open mind. I am seeking personal growth and improved physical agility and strength. I would like something that can include SonofV. He would have about the same preconditions, plus increased self confidence and self defense.

I am interested in hearing the opinions of my friends here in the cellar.

Best way to learn what Aikido is about is to visit a dojo and watch. Then come for a few practice lessons.

Aikido has had a profound effect on my life. While I am currently "off the mat", I hope to return to practice someday. Even if I don't, I've been enriched by the training and the philosophy.

Don't worry about which style you think you might be interested in. Yet.

Go visit some schools convenient to your home or work. If the school is not close, eventually, it will take its toll. Talk to the Master. How experienced is he/she? Is this someone you can respect under extreme duress - someone you can trust to mold you into a martial artist?

Is the style practiced at the school appropriate for your body? Some styles are acrobatic while others are more "straight ahead." Even if a style has a reputation as being one or the other, the school might not teach it in the conventional way so there is no substitute for observation.

Lastly and -most- importantly, attend a black-belt exam. This is what you will be spending the next 3-5 years trying to learn so make sure its something that you really want to learn and that nothing about the exam that is a deal-breaker for you.

Another thing is to see if you fit in with the students. That's a tougher call but these are the people you will be working out with and its important that you are comfortable with them and they with you.

Good luck.

Any of the martial arts will give you these things. One of the most important things to do will be to visit your local martial arts schools and see which are family/kid friendly, are well organized, and have what you and your son are looking for. Some schools are heavily into competitions; some are not. Some will promote students through the belts or ranks based on time put in more than on mastery of material; others will hold students at a rank until they completely master the level. Some are very intense in their attitude and instruction, and some focus more on social interaction and camaraderie. A school should be a good 'fit' for your situation, personality, and goals. And of course it should be on firm footing as a business, and preferably not require that you sign a long-term contract before your first lesson. (Many schools offer a 'free lesson', but that isn't enough to tell you much.)

I took tae kwon do, as did my kids. One of my sons and my daughter also took wu shu, a Chinese martial art. It was far more intense and demanding than the tae kwon do school we attended, but my kids got a lot out of it. Very time-consuming and painful, but that school turned out amazing athletes. Plus they had fun doing Lion/Dragon Dance performances at the CNE and at Chinese New Year.

It probably doesn't matter much which martial art you start with; people who like it often take classes in more than one style, once they've gotten to a certain level. Check your local yellow pages for schools and check them out. Chances are you'll see something you like.

Interesting comment. My own thought is that as a noob you can't understand what someone's black belt test--or any rank test, really--is really about just by watching it. (I would also imagine it takes longer than 3-5 years to reach ni-dan.)

Are you Aikidoka, beestie?

Thank you all for your considered responses.

I have already done some of the things you have suggested. For example, I have begun searching with logistical convenience in mind. The dojo I have visited is fairly close to home. I'm not sufficiently well informed to qualify for an opinion as to which style is "best". I will say that what little I have about Aikido is uniformly favorable. I find these descriptive sentences very compatible with my world view: The dojo I am considering does offer a free lesson, and I like (very much) the suggestion to sit in and watch a few classes. That would be very informative.

I especially appreciate the point that rapport with the Master is crucial. I have had one nice conversation with the owner/teacher/sensei where I'm looking. Of course, that is too little to know much for sure, but it was also entirely favorable. Plus, he comes well recommended. I have one personal recommendation, plus my research on his name and his dojo has revealed only positive evidence.

Rapport with the class will be tougher, but not impossible. In fact, one of the main areas of personal growth I alluded to earlier, handling conflict, doesn't require perfect rapport to provide room for growth. Plus, I'm a get-along guy. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe *I'll* bring the conflict.

This dojo does offer children's classes, and the Master (is that the proper form of address? I must ask.) has even allowed that SonofV may fit into an adult class with me. I would love that, as a father. As a co-student, I don't know how that dynamic would work. Size, and maturity and ability to focus, were his primary concerns, but not age. Also favorable.

Competitions, and rank advancement are very low on my list of priorities. That may change someday. But today it's a good match.

I couldn't begin to evaluate the compatibility of the style practiced and my body. I'm definitely more of a straight ahead type, and not an acrobat. But increased agility and flexibility are things I hope to gain through this training. I hope that's not an unreasonable expectation.

Finally, my choice to post in Philosophy instead of Sports or Entertainment, indicates my inclination to view this endeavor as a physical meditation, more than just exercise or a workout. So far, that seems to be a good match too.

2 years of KF (Northern, hard style), 1 year of Wu Shu and 3 years of TKD. Four months ago, I was 2 months away from my TKD black belt exam when the school shut down over a problem with the lease. The school had been operating under the same Master since the 80s so it took everyone by surprise. I've been agonizing over whether or not to get back into it. Its not easy to change to another school after something like that. 3 years of training up in smoke.

I'd like to go back to my first KF school - the Sifu there is a Grandmaster from old-world China and is regularly featured in KF magazine. But the school is 30 miles away so that won't work (I used to live close by). He was my best teacher.

I could go back to the WuShu school - most of the instructors are visiting instructors from the Beijing WuShu Institute (where Jet Li learned the craft) but its a very acrobatic style and it doesn't suit me very well.

So, basically, I'm in the same boat as BigV - looking for a school.

I think it would be great for son of v to see his dad model how a person is a beginner for a change instead of the guy who knows everything. Not meaning that you are a know it all, but that in his eyes since he was born you've been god or at least demigod. He's had to learn how to be a student all on his own, now you can show him how dad is a student. Plus you can commiserate, see below

You'll be relieved then to know that in aikido, advancement comes glacially slowly. At least in USAF dojos. You are tested after you accrue so many hours of practice. You can accrue one hour per day regardless of how many hours you actually are at the dojo. After you test, your slate is wiped clean of hours and you begin again. Each succesive rank requires an ever growing number of hours. You'd pretty much have to live at the dojo to earn a black belt inside of five years.

bwaaaaahaaaa haaaa haaa. You'll start out as a square wheel and have the corners bruised off of you pretty quickly. That's just learning the basic roll. Then we move onto wrist locks and (should I tell him about breakfalls? nahh, better not. nothing. Hey! how about them Mariners?)
Yet another father son bonding moment, trading ice packs and tiger balm...

It's all about the stoke.

I'm stoked!

uke, ukemi, breakfall, I have seen these already :O even in context with "clotheslined". That one I know. I spent some time here today. Trying to learn about the teacher, his dojo, and to absorb what I could, including the vocabulary.

Question, while we're on the subject of martial arts. A friend, who was into Judo, told me Judo is the only Martial Art that can only be used defensively. All others can be used both offensively and defensively, to some extent. true? :confused:

I thought I'd been told that Aikido was only defensive, but maybe I'm remembering wrong--it's been a long time.

I'd steer clear of that chestnut. Aikido makes the same claims and in theory it's true, in reality if you stand next to someone and put your arm around their shoulder, drop your hip below theirs, and start to pull down a bit on your arm at the same time as you lift their feet off the ground by standing back up (a simple judo hip throw--koshinage?) you can fuck their shit up pretty good when they land on the pavement. Just ask me about the time I was horsing around while drunk. It is true, horseplay does lead to tears.

Now as a martial art designed strictly for putting kittycumboddy on people, Judo and Aikido are not your top choices. Morning stars, maces, tactical nukes, seige engines, WD-40, are all better choices.

Well, okay, now you've gotten me. Even Google doesn't know what kittycumboddy means. :confused:

que ir combate?

roughly: you wanna fight? but really puttin a hurt on someone

We're going to have to kill you. Nobody is supposed to know about WD-40.

I'll stick with the Glock 23, thanks.

Ow.

I have survived my first aikido class at Tenzan Aikido. I know I survived because if I had died and gone to hell, I wouldn't hurt this bad. I fell more times last night that I have in the previous fifteen years combined. I have pains in places I didn't know I had parts. Pass the ibuprophen, please.

SonofV's class was the first hour, and my class was the second hour. We took turns watching each other's class. Actually, SonofV spent much of his non-mat hour chatting up another youngster also waiting on her parent. He was stoked (about the class time). He was singled out a couple of times for doing the drill right by Bookman Sensei, and he beamed about it on the way to the car. In fact, to emphasize his mad skilz, he asked if I wanted to see his front rolls--no, wait, watch! And in the time it took me to wrestle the car keys out of my bag, he had done about eight of them on the parking strip grass next to the car. "See?!" Wow. Very cool.

He asked when he could get a gi. I told him if he sticks with it for the month, he can have a gi. Big carrot. We signed up for one month. I signed up for unlimited practice for the month, and SonofV for a once a week pace. I may have bitten off more than I can chew. I can't imagine going three days a week, certainly not more, not now. But the difference isn't a lot of money, I don't begrudge that. I will try to use it as leverage to heave myself off my deathbed and go practice again.

I really did enjoy it, even more than I enjoy complaining about my sore muscles. The first 15-20 minutes were spent in quiet directed yoga / breathing exercises. Very very important, and useful. I liked that part. The class I was in was an All Levels class. Some (un)rank(ed) beginners like me, some with real gis and white belts, and about five with the black split skirt the name of which temporarily eludes me. I was paired with each of the advanced students, in turn, about 5-10 minutes each, and worked on some very elementary skills, many of which brought me into intimate contact with the canvas. I tell you, it's a long way down...followed immediately by a rapid deceleration. Oof.

But to watch the others, especially the... well, all of them looked graceful, powerful, beautiful. Aikido has the potential for some very smooth movements. Someday mine will be smooth too. I will not be a square wheel forever.

Well done V. I never got an explanation in biology class, just why our pain receptors seem to be concentrated in the corners. The upside of course, is that once the corners are gone, so is the pain. :D

Well done. Take a look at the move at 2:10. I took a few classes with Saito Sensei during a seminar back in the day. He is pretty amazing, I don't remember him smiling much though.

Foots , You goin ta let that Old man throw you around like that ???

I awoke this morning to stillness. Stillness of my body. I couldn't move out of bed. I felt as though I had been embalmed with concrete.

It's coming up to the end of the day and I can almost get myself in and out of my chair without help. I'm determined to get back on the pony tonight though. If by pony I mean the mat. Wish me luck.

You will make it dude!

When I was a bouncer I used it a lot.
That and Krav Maga.

aikido and various myths
 

You Dwellars know about bullshit already, but for any who haven't had enough yet i'd like to take a moment to say that almost all characterizations of this or that school of martial arts instruction or style are simplistic and/or wrong. To call aikido or judo "defensive" is like calling western wrestling purely defensive. The so-called style is a tool, like a gun or a knife is a tool, and can be used aggressively or not as the practicioner pleases.
The trend to call martial ways "gentle" or paths of peace, or non-violent started after Japan lost WW2. Before that terible lesson Japanese nationlists saw these practices as ways to export Japanese culture to the barbaric aliens outside the shores of Japan.While there has long been a philosophical and meditative aspect to Japanese (and other east asian) martial arts, there origins in , and utility in bloody violence is not forgotten by their cultures of origin.
Now that i've got that out of the way, Hooray for FamilyofV for starting aikido! It can be great fun!

You're off by thirteen centuries give or take a decade or two. It started in China around 500 AD as a way for Monks to meditate, stay in shape and, when necessary, defend the monastary. And just for the record, Martial Arts in Japan and China prior to WWII were taught in closed schools to hand-picked students and it was forbidden for anyone other than the Master to teach anyone outside the school.

The exception is Korean TKD; a post WWII martial art. Korea was most interested in exporting TKD far and wide as a matter of national pride. And any black belt is sanctioned to teach and promote students.

hm,,,
 

the legend of a chinese buddhist sect that practiced hand to hand combat at the same school they practiced ch'an meditation does not make all asian martial arts ways of peace. I lack the scholarly materials to definteively make a case one way or the other but I suggest that very few of the people who practiced martial arts through out history had the leisure and the security to practice for meditative or philosophical purposes. More likely in my view is that people learned how to do unto others as they were trying to do unto them. I believe that what makes the "way of peace" expression of martial arts possible is strong central government able to keep a rein on warlords and bandits with the accompaning economic prosperity that allows people time to train instead of struggling to produce enough food to eat every day.
On the other hand, every culture known has some sort of system of personal competition in the form of some sort of wrestling or boxing or hitting with implements. Why does it need to be fancier than that?

It's Friday. Wednesday's pledge to take my sore body to the mat again (and again) was not kept. Instead, I "played" in the snow. The first picture is a couple of blocks from my office, and it looked a little like that when I walked out of the office. The parking lot was bare, and I could see the very first tiny individual pellets of snow. They were about the size of a sesame seed. From the driveway to the beginning of the on ramp is about half a block. At the start of the on ramp, I could no longer see the lines on the road. At the end of the on ramp the wipers were on high. Across the bridge (maybe 1 mile as the crow flies) I couldn't see the island at the other end. The bridge disappeared in a gray cloud, punctuated by intermittent flashes of brake lights.

Intermittent because the wipers could only keep a small patch of windshield clear, and then...! none at all. The snow had become so fast and heavy that it overwhelmed my wipers. I put my left turn signal on and dove for the left shoulder, which was closest and downhill.

When I got out there was four inches of snow on the hood and the wipers were black slashes on a field of white and disappearing rapidly. The snow was coming down heavier and faster than I have ever seen. It was an avalanche from the sky. The snow was in little balls, not quite hail, softer, but the size of marbles. I shoveled the hood so that when I lifted it I wouldn't bury the windshield. The wipers had built up walls of packed snow under the cowl of the hood. In the time it took to excavate the wipers, four cars had stopped within a couple of car lengths of mine, but not exactly under control. They were pointing every which way.

I pushed them as the driver "steered" into a parked position on the shoulder. The fourth lady wasn't so lucky. She wanted to go forward, uphill (it was not very steep, only the incline of the bank of a freeway speed curve, a couple of degrees). It was uphill because she was perpendicular to the normal flow of traffic. I tried, nothing. As I talked to her, just standing, I was sliding backwards in my boots. It was that slick.

I told her that when I finished putting my chains on, she could have the spot I vacated. The other three people (Karen, Mustang; Hannah, Volvo wagon; Bill, BMW 5 series) were waiting in my car, since I offered to give them a ride westward into Seattle. It's only fair, I parked their cars....

So I pulled out with the chains, and about a mile later they came off. The road was merely wet from there all the way home. But the traffic was absolutely stacked up. My regular 25 minute commute was three hours. No mat time. Maybe tonight.

So, you arranged for a mini-blizzard to get out of rounding your corners. Damn, you Boy Scouts sure are resourceful. :smack:

be prepared, or in BigV's case, be repaired.

OK, ok, ok. I'm going *right now*!!

Hey V, y'still alive?

Yes, thanks for asking.

I did make it to the dojo Monday night, and I intend to go again tonight. If I succeed, and I expect I will, it will be the first time I've gone more than once a week. I'm hoping to give my muscles some experience in more frequent exercise. In fact, Tuesday, the second "day after", I was not nearly as sore as I was the morning after the first "day after". Now I'll just crowd them all together and hopefully my body will just get used to it.

I think one of the reason I was less sore is because I spent less time falling. That was nice. We worked on other stuff. The sessions I'm able to attend are all designated "All Levels". There are probably 25 or so students on the mat, representing the whole range of skill levels from no belt to white, brown, blue and black.

There is a demonstration given in the center of the mat with sensei and an advanced student, then we're all paired up to practice what we've just been shown. Naturally, I'm paired up with an advanced student, probably to keep me from landing on some other rookie and crushing them.

I'm learning a lot. Instead of spending all my time picking myself up from the mat, we worked on the jo stick. It was fun learning about the jo stick. I learned that the jo stick makes two sounds in combat. The first sound is a sharp solid clack when an attack is parried correctly as the two sticks crash together. The other sound is a little different, more muted, like the sound of a piece of meat makes when it's slapped onto a wooden cutting board. Or, more precisely, when the wood is slapped onto the meat. This sound is quickly followed by a rapid inhalation and a stream of curses and tears. You get this sound when you parry an attack INcorrectly.

Like I said, I'm learning a lot. For example, I learned how to clean blood from the white canvas covering of the mat. It's not too hard. There's a squeeze bottle of hydrogen peroxide and plenty of towels and bandages. It comes right out.

I wonder what I'll learn tonight.

How to reattach the butt being handed to you?:haha:

True... the way I used it was very different than the way it is taught in dojos across the country.
I was taught by a couple of masters, after hours, specific to my job... just practical application, enhancing what I already knew, in relation to my reflexes-body type, strength, situations, numbers of opponents, etc. They told me that in a few weeks I learned things that took others years to learn.

I've seen cops apply variations of some of the same techniques that are used in aikido, and the techniques themselves are not particularly difficult.

The disciplines, ideas and styles of thinking that are taught in true Aikido dojos (as opposed to those offering a smorgasbord of various arts who teach joint locks too) take a lot longer to impart.

May have been Krav Maga... lot of cops, FBI, Special Forces, etc, get classes now. It is far faster and more practical. I used it a lot during combat... though I did not do a lot of that, mostly locks and walking people out on their toes; some pressure point work to "convince" or make my point.

variety in aikido
 

Given that the modern expression of aikido encompasses Gozo Shioda'a Yoshinkan, Ueshiba's aikikai, and Tomiki's shin-shin toitsu do, three extremely different ways of learning and practicing aikido, leads me to be wary of the phrase "true aikido". I think i know what you mean, but that phrase has been the source of a lot of contention.
Even Ueshiba didn't start his peace love and understanding trip until after WW2. Before the war he was notorious for injuring students. Gozo Shioda has been characterized by at least one of his students as "a vicious little shit who liked to hurt people". Tomiki has at least once broken both collarbones of a student although the story i heard he wasn't necessarily trying to.
The modern ideals bandied about modern aikido culture are worth listening to but be careful and critical of what you hear.
All the above is my opinion. There are many like it, but this one is mine. YMMV, etc.

Edit: Please forgive my ranting. I don't know what's come over me,,,

Perhaps a poorly chosen phrase on my part. I did try to clarify how I meant it.

I'd be willing to consider any of those three schools you mention as "true aikido"; I happened to train Ki Society, which is shin shin toitsu do. I have heard--through relatives that once attended a Yoshinkan dojo--that their style is...perhaps not as gentle. My sensei was always careful to never criticise any other style, while insisting that "here, we do this *this* way".

I meant to distinguish between teaching techniques that are recognizably aikido techniques from focused practice where you'll learn something more of what aiki is. In principle, that can happen anywhere, of course, but I think it's more likely in some places than others.